The Unsung, But Massive Obamacare Sales Tax Increase That Is On the Way

[chefnerd]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the $25 billion "policy fee" in effect for 2014-16. $18B in 14, $12B in 15, and $5B in 16. Supposedly this is to help compensate the insurance companies for the extra cost involved with the no pre-existing conditions clause with $5B going to the Treasury. However, knowing how Congress doesn't like to give up revenue strings, it remains to be seen if it ACTUALLY will go away in 2017.

[CuteOldGuy]

[LovingKayla]

I can't get through this thread because 99% of it is on a different wave length than I operate on. I don't speak retard..

To the guy that said a state could opt out... The state can opt out all day long, that doesn't stop them from taking the SHIT out of us. Those poor min wage folks just saw their checks go down SIGNIFICANTLY. The cute little gay guy at the tanning salon (that is an obama supporter) was almost in tears when his check went down 25%. I was so sad for him, but I asked him why he was suprised when we've been screaming from every corner that this was coming.. He said, the republicans (Gad I hate that word) were all liars. I agreed with him and asked, what about plain old patriot? He didn't know the difference between republicans and patriots. I didn't have time to explain this shit, so I just told him I was sorry his check went down. Hindsight all that...

[CuteOldGuy]

Once he realizes that the Democrats are all liars, too, he'll be on his way to reality.

[flghtr65]

Originally Posted by LovingKayla

I can't get through this thread because 99% of it is on a different wave length than I operate on. I don't speak retard..

To the guy that said a state could opt out... The state can opt out all day long, that doesn't stop them from taking the SHIT out of us. Those poor min wage folks just saw their checks go down SIGNIFICANTLY. The cute little gay guy at the tanning salon (that is an obama supporter) was almost in tears when his check went down 25%. I was so sad for him, but I asked him why he was suprised when we've been screaming from every corner that this was coming.. He said, the republicans (Gad I hate that word) were all liars. I agreed with him and asked, what about plain old patriot? He didn't know the difference between republicans and patriots. I didn't have time to explain this shit, so I just told him I was sorry his check went down. Hindsight all that...

I don't have a problem if you want to lower the tax rate for people who make less than $20,000. The fact is there are 25 million Americans who don't have health insurance. They can't get it from where they work, or have some pre-existing condition that the health insurance companies will not insure when they try to get it own their own (for example high blood sugar - diabetis). Everyone needs healthcare whether you are a cashier at Walmart and make $8.50 per hour or you are an actor and get paid 3 million per picture. Obamacare is not designed to be free, it is designed to give affordable health insurance to those who don't have it. I get my health insurance where I work, I get a new card every January my premium is $100 every pay period out of pocket my company pays the rest. I don't have to take any tests. The process is different for small companies or if you have to get it on your own as an individual. There are people who can afford the premium but due to a pre-existing condition cannot get coverage from an insurance company like Blue Cross Blue Shield or Humana. Obamacare and Romneycare are similiar in that they both have the mandate that you must have health insurance or pay a fine. Romneycare only works is the state of Mass. Obamacare which will be effective 1/1/14 will work in any state that does not opt out. Twenty three states have accepted Obamacare and two have opted out (Texas and Louisiana). If you are under the age of 26 and your parents have health insurance then you can get on your parents plan right now regardless if you have a pre-existing condition. This is what Congress has worked out. I have not heard anyone offer a better plan to provide affordable heath insurance to the 25 million Americans who don't have it. If someone gets sick and does not have coverage what is that person suppose to do not get treated? The old system was broken and not working for all.

[Jewish Lawyer]

LK, send that poor little guy over to Randy4Dicks, WTF's, and TimmyPage's little homo shack. They will have fun and can help pay the little gay guys bills. Although, since those guys do it for free everyday, the gay guy might have to work cheap.

[CuteOldGuy]

Originally Posted by flghtr65

I don't have a problem if you want to lower the tax rate for people who make less than $20,000. How much tax do they pay now? The fact is there are 25 million Americans who don't have health insurance. Or don't want it. They can't get it from where they work, or have some pre-existing condition that the health insurance companies will not insure when they try to get it own their own (for example high blood sugar - diabetis). It's spelled "diabetes" and covering pre-existing conditions is not "insurance". Everyone needs healthcare whether you are a cashier at Walmart and make $8.50 per hour or you are an actor and get paid 3 million per picture. And only government is benevolent enough to provide it. Obamacare is not designed to be free, Duh. it is designed to give affordable health insurance to those who don't have it. Do you read anything about how much it will actually cost??? I get my health insurance where I work, I get a new card every January my premium is $100 every pay period out of pocket my company pays the rest. Your company doesn't pay a dime. You pay it. You don't understand economics either. I don't have to take any tests. The process is different for small companies or if you have to get it on your own as an individual. There are people who can afford the premium but due to a pre-existing condition cannot get coverage from an insurance company like Blue Cross Blue Shield or Humana. Again, covering pre-existing conditions IS NOT insurance. Obamacare and Romneycare are similiar in that they both have the mandate that you must have health insurance or pay a fine. Romneycare only works is the state of Mass. Which states can choose to do without violating the federal Constitution. Obamacare which will be effective 1/1/14 will work in any state that does not opt out. Twenty three states have accepted Obamacare and two have opted out (Texas and Louisiana). That makes 25. Where are the rest of the states? We have 58 according to Obama. If you are under the age of 26 and your parents have health insurance then you can get on your parents plan right now regardless if you have a pre-existing condition. This is what Congress has worked out. I have not heard anyone offer a better plan to provide affordable heath insurance to the 25 million Americans who don't have it. If someone gets sick and does not have coverage what is that person suppose to do not get treated? The old system was broken and not working for all. Now we have a system which will not work for anyone. Feel better?

Jesus, you have been bathing in the Kool-Aid. Come up for air, for god's sake! Breathe in some reality. Obamacare isn't what you think it is. While I agree no other politicians offered a market based plan for consideration (idiot Republicans) sometimes no plan is better than a disastrous plan.

[Yssup Rider]

Originally Posted by LovingKayla

I can't get through this thread because 99% of it is on a different wave length than I operate on. I don't speak retard..

..

don't kid yourself. You are quite fluent.

[flghtr65]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Jesus, you have been bathing in the Kool-Aid. Come up for air, for god's sake! Breathe in some reality. Obamacare isn't what you think it is. While I agree no other politicians offered a market based plan for consideration (idiot Republicans) sometimes no plan is better than a disastrous plan.

I will answer a couple of these questions now. The other questions will be answered over the weekend. How much tax does someone pay who makes less than $20,000 per year? I don't know exactly. I only know how much tax I pay, plus my salary is a lot higher than $20,000. I do know this, in 1986 there were two tax brackets, 10 and 28 percent. Then it was changed to have 6 or seven brackets. The highest income tax bracket is at 39.5 percent, this became effective Jan 2013. Under Bush this bracket was lowered to 35 per cent. I don't know the tax percentage for the lowest bracket, probably around 10 percent. The point is if someone is making $8.00 per hour and works 40 hours per week without overtime then your gross pay is $320 before taxes. This is not a lot of disposable income to work with.
You asked about the rest of the states, I had accounted for 25. The other states have not decided either way about opting in or out for Obamacare. This was based on a front page article in the USA Today about 4 months ago. New York is one state that has opted in and has begun to set up the government exchanges, where the unisured can go purchase health insurance at a lower rate than say Humana.
The estimated cost of Obamacare, I believe the cost is about the same amount as it was for the Bush prescription drug plan that was implemented. The plan is to cover the estimated 25 million who are uninsured, about 10 per cent of the population. The rest of the population will continue to get their insurance through their employer, assumeing they are still employed with that company. The 25 million people who do not have health insurance, need health insurance. You agreed with me that the republicans did not offer an alternative plan to insure these 25 million people.

[CuteOldGuy]

In other words, you starting spouting off without knowing what you were talking about. Typical liberal. Take a reality pill, Fluffr65. You are living in a fantasyland.

[flghtr65]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

In other words, you starting spouting off without knowing what you were talking about. Typical liberal. Take a reality pill, Fluffr65. You are living in a fantasyland.

The reality is Obamacare is the law of the land and it is going to be implemented. All Americans need health care not just some of us. You said youself you agreed that no alternative plan has been offered. Obama beat McClain by 10 million votes and he beat Mitt by 5 million votes. Ron Paul went home 3 weeks after Michelle Bachman did with a grand total of 66 delegates. That is an aweful lot of brainwashing by the media, don't you think? The republicans still believe in the "Trickle Down Theory" Keep taxes low for the one percent and hope that it trickles down to the middle class. December 2008 was enough proof that the "Trickle Down Theory" just does not work. The Ryan plan which is pretty much an additional tax cut for the one percent and reduced heathcare for senior citizens, will never become law. This is a good thing. Since you are the only one on ECCIE who knows everything, what is your plan to give affordable health insurance to the 25 million Americans who don't have it? I would be willing to bet that you don't have a plan or care to come up with one.

[Jewish Lawyer]

Originally Posted by flghtr65

The reality is Obamacare is the law of the land and it is going to be implemented. All Americans need health care not just some of us. You said youself you agreed that no alternative plan has been offered. Obama beat McClain by 10 million votes and he beat Mitt by 5 million votes. Ron Paul went home 3 weeks after Michelle Bachman did with a grand total of 66 delegates. That is an aweful lot of brainwashing by the media, don't you think? The republicans still believe in the "Trickle Down Theory" Keep taxes low for the one percent and hope that it trickles down to the middle class. December 2008 was enough proof that the "Trickle Down Theory" just does not work. The Ryan plan which is pretty much an additional tax cut for the one percent and reduced heathcare for senior citizens, will never become law. This is a good thing. Since you are the only one on ECCIE who knows everything, what is your plan to give affordable health insurance to the 25 million Americans who don't have it? I would be willing to bet that you don't have a plan or care to come up with one.

Back when we were a great country, very few wanted or expected shit to be given to them. If we were a great country, we would find a way for those who could earn their healthcare to do it, not find a way to GIVE it to them - the lazy motherfuckers.

[CuteOldGuy]

The government is not here to "give" anyone anything. That's your problem, Fluffr. You think government is a provider, when it is nothing of the sort.

What would I do? I'd get government out of the health care industry completely. I would allow insurance companies to compete across state lines. I'd let individuals choose which coverage they wanted, and not have unnecessary coverage forced on them. All of these things would drive costs down.

Then for those who can't afford health care, I'd get government out of the way of faith-based and other charitable organizations, allowing them to provide indigent services to people without government interference.

But you want to isolate each problem, and ignore how interrelated this issue is with other issues. For example, if we had a simple, easy-to-understand, tax system, the country would flourish, and other changes need to be made elsewhere, which would drive down the cost of health care.

Government policies slow the market. People become poorer. As they get poorer, government seeks their votes by "giving" to them. The more they "get" from the government, the more they vote for the "givers", who interfere more in market, slowing it ever more, creating more need for government gifts.

Government created the health care crisis, and now they intend to fix it? Just wait, Fluffr, we'll see how well Obamacare works. You can choose to ignore the facts, but this is an unmitigated disaster.

Oh, and by the way, SCOTUS saying something is Constitutional doesn't really mean shit. Any way you read the Constitution, there is no authority for the government to be managing health care. It's not in there, regardless of what the SCOTUS says.

[flghtr65]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

The government is not here to "give" anyone anything. That's your problem, Fluffr. You think government is a provider, when it is nothing of the sort.

What would I do? I'd get government out of the health care industry completely. I would allow insurance companies to compete across state lines. I'd let individuals choose which coverage they wanted, and not have unnecessary coverage forced on them. All of these things would drive costs down.

Then for those who can't afford health care, I'd get government out of the way of faith-based and other charitable organizations, allowing them to provide indigent services to people without government interference.

But you want to isolate each problem, and ignore how interrelated this issue is with other issues. For example, if we had a simple, easy-to-understand, tax system, the country would flourish, and other changes need to be made elsewhere, which would drive down the cost of health care.

Government policies slow the market. People become poorer. As they get poorer, government seeks their votes by "giving" to them. The more they "get" from the government, the more they vote for the "givers", who interfere more in market, slowing it ever more, creating more need for government gifts.

Government created the health care crisis, and now they intend to fix it? Just wait, Fluffr, we'll see how well Obamacare works. You can choose to ignore the facts, but this is an unmitigated disaster.

Oh, and by the way, SCOTUS saying something is Constitutional doesn't really mean shit. Any way you read the Constitution, there is no authority for the government to be managing health care. It's not in there, regardless of what the SCOTUS says.

I agree that the tax code needs to be made simpler. I disagree with your solution of Charities to provide health care for the people who are not insured. If your appendix ruptures and it needs to come out, you need to go strait to the hospital and get it removed. Obamacare will work the same way that Romneycare works. The uninsured person will go to the government insurance exhange purchase insurance by paying a premium that is below market rates. Instead of paying $200 per month which would be an at market premium they would pay something like $90 per month to have the same insurance coverage. It is not free insurance, its insurance at a discount. Insurance companies are in the business to make money, they want their clients to pay their premium and never submit a claim. Of course as you get older or if you have some sort of pre-exsisting condition, the probability increases that you are going to have to go see a doctor and submit a claim. In the current system, why do you think that insurance companies deny coverage to people with pre-existing conditions( like high blood sugar or high blood pressure). My view is your charities solution is not adequate. If Romneycare can work in the state of Mass, then Obamacare can work in the states that do not opt out. I am not going to get into Constitutional Law, the Chief Justice who policitally is a republican, cast the decideing vote for Obamacare and that is our system of checks and balances between the executive, legislative and judical branches.

[CuteOldGuy]

Do you really not know why insurance companies deny coverage to people with pre-existing conditions? Are you THAT stupid, Fluffr?