Adultery and Open relationships...Thoughts?

[Guest042611]

Originally Posted by Camille

I think it's already been said but in different ways....but you have to be really good communicators to make it work (and communication not just being limited to talk). Non of this alluding to stuff rubbish...communicate it. If you communicate well in an exclusive relationship, I would imagine you have a better chance of coloring outside of the lines as it were than those who don't have that ingredient going for them.

Ditto! I was in an open relationship with someone I was head-over-heels for, and found it way more difficult than I expected. You have to have basically unlimited patience for processing and relationship talks, and you have to always take responsibility for your feelings. For one person to admit that he or she feels jealous/insecure—though the other partner may not have broken any "rules" in the context of an open relationship—can be very difficult. Sometimes you don't know if something will hurt you until it's already happened, and sometimes things that you can justify intellectually/politically can still be very uncomfortable on a gut, emotional level.

Tristan Taormino wrote a book whose title I can't remember at the moment, but I personally thought it was better than The Ethical Slut, which was the first book I read on polyamory.

I think one mistake people when turning a monogamous relationship into a primary but polyamorous one is choosing other partners who are not necessarily the best candidates for polyamory. Even if your husband agrees to it and is ok with it, it's important that your other partners are also 100 percent happy with the fact that you won't be leaving him for them (or that you don't intend to, at least!). Polyamory doesn't open you up to date anyone in the world, it takes consent and encouragement and communication on all levels, not just between you and your primary, but with any other person you choose to involve in your lives.

Good luck, and I hope you find it wonderful and fulfilling for your relationship.

[BellaIsabella]

Thanks for everyone's advice

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by WTF

How can you say poly do not judge people when that is exactly what you are doing. How can you say that poly do not compare people when that is exactly what you are doing?

How about this, there are monogamous people that do not degrade and there are polyamorous people that do not degrade but we all judge what is best for us. Degrading is when you come across as better or special....such as this nonsense that mono people always compare and poly folks do not. That is nonsense.

Mono people think their way the best for them and poly think the same. The problem arises on either side when they think their way of life is superior.

One is not better , it just is a different way to try and reach the same destination, which is happiness.

you are right. thanks for pointing this out to me.
it has just been my experience that monos (when they had access to my life) have been judgemental . But then again - those were not the epitome of monogamous people per se.
I just felt that being with a mormon on one side and being with a married guy on the other side the judgement was primarily theirs with the secrecy and judging stuff. But then again - its true that these are not all monos.
Thanks again for pointing this out to me - as my views are very jaded and sometimes hostile about monos in general. Sorry for that.

But on the political side we do live in a heteronormative enviroment that encourages monogamous behaviour as superiour to all other forms of being wiht people. And since monos benefit the most from it, it is not going to be changed likely. I mean multiple marriages? Open relationships? Who is most against that? Monos. So of course my hostility is wrong and judgemental, but somehow "earned".

( i do hear a lot of monogamous people tell their spouse they are "the best" and "most beautiful" and such?) is that not a judgement? I would NEVER tell my lovers that they are the best looking or sexual people on earth?

[Guest042611]

I read Wendy O--Matik's Redefining Our Relationships and found it quite judgmental toward monogamy—she has this punk rock aesthetic (which I like) but also seems to take this position that people who aren't polyamorous just aren't very hip or open-minded. In reality, everyone has to do what's right for them even if that means less punk rock/hipster street cred. If you have the self-awareness to know monogamy works best for you (and you've thought about it, and aren't just following the herd), then more power to you.

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by Natalie

Polyamory doesn't open you up to date anyone in the world, it takes consent and encouragement and communication on all levels, not just between you and your primary, but with any other person you choose to involve in your lives.

Good luck, and I hope you find it wonderful and fulfilling for your relationship.

Here is the tristan taormino book ;-) I love her too
http://www.amazon.com/Opening-Up-Cre...5392795&sr=8-5

You are right and you make a good point with what you stated. Polyamory basically makes you suitable to date others who are poly. This was a long and hard lesson i learned myself. I thought when i am honest and truthful that other people are like this to me too and its not my fault they are married and cheating or mormons in their religious beliefs (hell, they all still wanted to date me nevertheless)
but then when it comes down to paying the bills, i was the one who always felt kind of "screwed" and mistreated. Some people claim to be interested in poly or are poly-curious and think you are a deliverer of services like an escort. I mean being asked for a threesome by a mormon is kind of "interesting", right? :-) haha.

So , i have never dated out of my social circle ever since - and this is when i found happiness. Its not that i did intend to date mormons or married people in the first place, but they kind of felt drawn to me and i was naive enough to think that their view of the world is THEIRS to carry , not mine. It wasn`t The majority of times i never made problems for these people`s lifes, while these people circumsized mine substantially/or made their issues a problem for me to deal with. The responsibility for the problems arising within such relationships "outside" territorry was always mine to carry and the most painful for ME, even though i was not the one whose worldview sucked :-). So i only date polys and it works the best!

So, what you stated, natalie, is correct!

As to feeling jealous and overwhelmed even when rules are not broken, that is normal and happens in every relationship, it fades after a while. The most challenging part is to not degrade the secondary as "second class". And to be loyal to everyone.

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by Natalie

I read Wendy O--Matik's Redefining Our Relationships and found it quite judgmental toward monogamy—she has this punk rock aesthetic (which I like) but also seems to take this position that people who aren't polyamorous just aren't very hip or open-minded. In reality, everyone has to do what's right for them even if that means less punk rock/hipster street cred. If you have the self-awareness to know monogamy works best for you (and you've thought about it, and aren't just following the herd), then more power to you.

I hear you, i agree totally. Its not the best method to "defend" your relationship style by doing what you feel others do to you (even if its rightfully felt so sometimes). I personally have no problems with monogamous people, i think escorting is a way to cater to marriages. I just have a problem with people who pretend to be monogamous , but are not. Or the ones who claim to be polyamorous (because its hip...or they think its about getting as close as possible to as many hot bi-babes.....) and really are not. But then again, with age you learn to make a distinction. :-)

If you read monogamous books on dating advice or on "how to safe your marriage if someone cheated" you will fill it spiced with judgement towards open relationships and anything beyond the boarders of traditional monogamy. The whole therapeutical world is "biased" towards monogamy. Its just easier to detect judgement when it comes from opressed minorities (that does not make it right, though) . But read - any - book on relationship advice , you will find it full to the brim with judgemental stuff towards anything else than monogamy. :-).

It is true, however that we live in a monoheteronormative society and monogamous relationships "are" favoured economically, socially, psychologically (i am psychologist and wrote part of my thesis on monogamy-biased research and judgements) and such. So, its an easy way to defend yourself by spitting on your oppressor (or to provoke said people), but it does not bring you any further since you just cater further to their judgementality proofing them right. But we still have to go a long way - plitically and psychologically to really say "i have the liberty to choose", because most of us do not have the liberty really to choose and are scared to do something outside the norm. (Not us - obviously that is - ;.-))..)

[London Rayne]

I never felt Nina was judging "me" just because I don't believe in open relationships. You can judge an act without judging a person. I don't agree or support aborting either, but I don't walk around with a sign at the clinic that says "murderer."

I don't believe in lying or being with other partners if I am in love period. When I am with a man I TRULY love, he is all I have need for. Oh sure I may get the urge now and then when things are going bad, but I am also capable of using self control. I don't have to jump on every urge I am presented with....it's called living by decision and not emotion.

[John Bull]

London, if more men thought like you, there wouldn't be a hobby

[London Rayne]

Yea and I have sent a few right back to their wives because of it lol. I won't be with a guy who is literally torn between me and being faithful...don't need money that bad to live without a conscience. I mean it's one thing to know he is married, but when he is almost in tears....GET OUT!

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by London Rayne

Yea and I have sent a few right back to their wives because of it lol. I won't be with a guy who is literally torn between me and being faithful...don't need money that bad to live without a conscience. I mean it's one thing to know he is married, but when he is almost in tears....GET OUT!

+1

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by London Rayne

I never felt Nina was judging "me" just because I don't believe in open relationships. You can judge an act without judging a person. I don't agree or support aborting either, but I don't walk around with a sign at the clinic that says "murderer."

I don't believe in lying or being with other partners if I am in love period. When I am with a man I TRULY love, he is all I have need for. Oh sure I may get the urge now and then when things are going bad, but I am also capable of using self control. I don't have to jump on every urge I am presented with....it's called living by decision and not emotion.

Thanks London!
I try to be not judgemental as long as i don`t feel judged or the need to defend myself (now that is a bit hypocritical right ;-)...)

And as to polyamory: I have the same view like you do on monogamy. I can control myself. I have lived 2 years without any sex in private, because i also live by decision and not by hormons. I do not decide to screw around. I either have love relationships and at these i do not jump in the hood at first approach either. I happened to recently just fall in love with two guys at almost the same time. And oh wonder they loved me back! But it is love. And polyamory is about loving more than one person not fucking everything that moves.
I get pretty aggressive when people think poly is about screwing around :-). I am faithful and loyal to my partners and i do not intend to add additional partners at this point.

And thanks London! I love your character!

[Sa_artman]

Originally Posted by ninasastri

( i do hear a lot of monogamous people tell their spouse they are "the best" and "most beautiful" and such?) is that not a judgement? I would NEVER tell my lovers that they are the best looking or sexual people on earth?

Sometimes a compliment is just a compliment and at the right time and place is well served. Are you so divine that you do not posses preferences?

[Guest042611]

Originally Posted by ninasastri

( i do hear a lot of monogamous people tell their spouse they are "the best" and "most beautiful" and such?) is that not a judgement? I would NEVER tell my lovers that they are the best looking or sexual people on earth?

I say things like this all the time! It's probably not true but I meant it when I said it.

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by Natalie

I say things like this all the time! It's probably not true but I meant it when I said it.

I know that. Most monos do. and i know you do not mean to judge. But that is the same with boyfriends. Some monos classify all their boyfriends with the same language of "most and more" . and when the relationship is done they do the same with the follower. Its a "use" but i am highly critical of its approach - because it lacks individuality. Either we are all individuals and all special. Or no one is. Stating someone is "The best" or "the most attractive" makes them state at the same time others are not good enough or beautiful enough. Such use of vocabulary tends to cause jealousy and is the reason why poly/mono does not work so much in combination. So if you have two lovers you have to find different ways to appreciate them than the comparative approach or hierarchies. Imagine i tell one of my lovers he is "the best" and "the most beautiful" or "he fucks me the best way". My god..... I could file for divorce right now...

But i just do not like hierarchies and classifications and all that. After all i am a political activist trained to make everyone feel special . And hierarchies are a dangerous thing. It makes people replacable like goods. Because what if you are not the hottest shit on this planet? you must constantly worry about finding your match ?

I think everyone is beautiful and everyone is special. Or no one. But to think because you love someone he is "the best" is ..hm...not realistic. But people do that, because usually they are in search for the "one and only" by dumping one after the other after the other after the other.....serial monogamy....

Or being the best is also a dangerous approach since most gents here buy escorts. They don`t do so because their wive "lacks" qualities which most wives tend to think when they find out their hubbys betray them . Then they suddenly think they are not "the best" anymore, because if they were, why would it happen? So a more egalitarian approach when judging or validating people is better because then you can embrace the different qualities different people and different relationships can offer.

In my experience,Monogamous people tend to have a problem with Polyamory because they want to "compete" to be the best . That is why poly/mono relationships do never work usually ("what does she have i do not have"? "Well for starters she is a different person?") BEcause we are all humans. So what one offers cannot be necessarily of a better quality than what another offers. Competition is degrading people to service renderers. Again. I might exagerate! I put out the worst and the extreme case scenarios by bringint that logic of "the best" to its most extreme

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by Sa_artman

Sometimes a compliment is just a compliment and at the right time and place is well served. Are you so divine that you do not posses preferences?

I do not understand what you mean? I have no problems with compliments at all. And preferences change too? So one day this one is the most beautiful and the next day the other one? Which makes it no one? So i`d rather say both are beautiful and leave "the best" "the most" or hierarchies out of it.

I have preferences. I have two lovers. I prefer them to other men of course otherwise i would not have them as lovers. But i do not judge them in ultimate terms, because its just my preference.

And hell i do think George Clooney is hot and Johnny Depp too. But no one is "the best looking" . Sorry :-)