Ann Romney wants to throw out public education. What a SLUNT!

[ChoomCzar]

Originally Posted by austxjr

BTW, we wouldn't want to help bad teachers be good teachers or understand why they are bad/ineffective teachers now would w? That much less correct the problems, right? Tough love is the best way, just fire them and let them figure it out for themselves.

We could let them practice on your retarded kids......

[Yssup Rider]

Not only are you not clever, you're just an asshole, aren't you, Marshmallow?

No wonder you're so hateful. You've got, I say, you've got self esteem problems boy!

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by austxjr

Your opinion on tenure, but I'll grant tenure has gotten out of hand when granted too early in some cases and not on very high standards. There are some definitely advantages to tenure if handled correctly. Teachers can be fired for all sorts of things. Performance is often not one of them because it is notoriously hard to measure accurately since there are so many things that go into it and affect it. Teachers Unions are against being able to fire teachers for performance (and performance bonuses) because it usually leads to management favoritism and a popularity contest. Some Teacher's unions in some cities and states have gone too far in blocking some reforms, but we no reform will work if it is done on the backs of teachers and they leave the profession. Most studies show that the critical factor in good education is excellent teachers. The question is how to make many more teachers excellent. I don't think it is by firing them. Is that how the private sector creates excellent employees, by threatening to fire them and firing them ("the beatings will continue until morale improves"? Great teachers don't grow on trees and most of the people that would be great teachers have gone into banking, law, medicine or business. You are citing the old right wing saw of a couple of anecdotes as a case for getting rid of all unions and tenure.

Best Teacher awards are usually a popularity contest as well. The four best teachers I ever had never got Best Teacher awards (except nominated for national ones based on Merit Scholars recommendations) which instead went to really nice teachers everyone loved (especially the dumb kids because the teachers didn't push them hard). I had a family member who taught and was chairperson of the department and only ever got grief, but for years students who went to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT, etc.. would come up in restaurants and say, "M. Teacher, I hated you in school, but thanks, I never would have gotten where I am if you weren't so hard on me."

Teaching is also not a thing you are either good at or not. It is not even that you can be trained well or not. It is collaborative between teacher, teaching staff, admin, parents, student, even community. Degrees in Education don't teach you to teach. Degrees in a subject don't teach you to teach. Other teachers, experience, team teaching, etc.. teach one to teach. Often teachers don't collaborate and this is set up by leadership which doesn't demand best practices. New teachers have so much to deal with with new lesson plans, parents, administrators, their subject (usually now what they were most familiar with in college) not to mention the students and learning how to teach that they often drown and many just give up and leave before they get to 5 years and anyone finds out if they are actually any good or not.

What you are advocating is tearing down a system that is actually working pretty well for 80% of the students (the real problems are mostly in city schools with predominantly poor populations - surprise, surprise) based on anecdotes and your beliefs which are unsupported by research or real world examples. I'm just not willing to risk a key foundation of our society on your unfounded beliefs.

Now if you want to talk about real solutions, then we can do that. Three of the most promising things I've seen lately are:

• Increase availability of early pre-schooling. Evidence indicates it decreases unemployment in 20's by 30 to 50% and also decreases LE involvement and convictions by similar rates - that is best bang for buck.
• Use student evaluations to rate teacher performance - recently saw surprising data that done correctly student evaluations of teachers correlated well with actual student academic improvement.
• Teach analytic writing and thinking (need good reading to do it too) much earlier and across the board (writing essays and grading them in history, math, science as well as english - which is what my family member used to do a lot of) as it teaches and reinforces good thinking necessary for science, math, tests, college, life, etc..... Students can't really do science and math without good reading and writing skills.. after all they are taught from a book or written materials usually. Recent studies of this approach have shown a great deal of promise.

BTW, we wouldn't want to help bad teachers be good teachers or understand why they are bad/ineffective teachers now would we? That much less correct the problems, right? Tough love is the best way, just fire them and let them figure it out for themselves.

The whole concept of tenure is ridiculous. No one should have tenure. If we gave tenure to every worker in the country, the entire economy would grind to a halt over night.

All public worker unions should be illegal, especially teachers unions.

Parents should be given vouchers so they can send their kids to any school they want. Government schools would soon be empty, because they wouldn't be able to compete with for profit private schools. The government doesn't deliver excellence, the private sector does.

[Yssup Rider]

So you agree with Ann Romney that public education should be thrown out?

[CuteOldGuy]

If Joe doesn't, I do, Assup!

[Yssup Rider]

Of course you do Rainbow. That would mean you wouldn't have to pay to educate somebody else's kids.

[CuteOldGuy]

Not necessarily. Government education simply doesn't work. Here are a couple videos. I know it's hard for you to read.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okPnDZ1Txlo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jZHN...eature=related

[LovingKayla]

Double

[LovingKayla]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

This shit is SO over! Americans will choose between a commander on chief and a robber baron who has managed to piss off everybody at home and abroad.
!

That is right on the money! Go Romney!


But just in case he doesn't, I'm ready.



Oh man the rainbow nickname is taken already. Damn.

[Yssup Rider]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Not necessarily. Government education simply doesn't work. Here are a couple videos. I know it's hard for you to read.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okPnDZ1Txlo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jZHN...eature=related

Government education? Im talking about PUBLIC EDUCATION. Are you calling them one in the same?

[ElisabethWhispers]

On a side note, everyone seems to be VERY in favor of charter schools. I don't believe that you're aware of the fact that MANY charter schools (I'm speaking of Dallas and a few surrounding areas because that's where I know) are VERY substandard.

Much worse than the public schools. Many of the teachers there couldn't get hired anywhere else.

The idea of choosing the school that you wish to attend is a good idea in theory. And in smaller districts, such as Garland ISD, across the board a parent can choose which school they wish for their child to attend. And this seems MORE than fair.

I sincerely believe that people have a skewed idea that ALWAYS private schools are better and so are charter schools. This just isn't the case.

We have the quality private schools here in Dallas, sure. They're a fantastic education.

But at private schools, having a teaching certificate, etc, just isn't a requirement. And many of the smaller so called "Christian" schools here in town are just horrible in terms of what many offer in terms of a quality education.

Just throwing a little something different in this mix.

Offering more charter schools isn't going to necessarily increase the overall educational levels here in the US.

Respectfully,
Elisabeth

[Little Stevie]

Along those lines, Elizabeth, in 2010, the Texas Schoolbook debacle almost made me want to move out of Texas. They actually voted on whether or not to include a reference in the history books that Noah had put dinosaurs on the ark!

I guess, if it had been adopted, they would have had to edit the Bible.

[ElisabethWhispers]

Wow. I'm shaking my head at that!

I sincerely doubt that even the text of "Gilgamesh", which includes a similar story of Noah's Ark, had a dinosaur in it.

Ludicrous of those book companies, if true, to even consider.

Thanks for sharing, Stevie!

Sincerely,
Elisabeth

[CuteOldGuy]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Government education? Im talking about PUBLIC EDUCATION. Are you calling them one in the same?

There is no "public" education. It is government education.

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

There is no "public" education. It is government education.

everything is government to you