Is Ron Paul correct on Iran?

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

But WE cannot provide a site, er, that is, a cite for his information.

I. B everyone knows they have nukes- Israel has every top and advanced weapon you can think of and I have no issues with them having one of the most powerful forces in the world- they are surrounded by enemies- in fact if I am not mistaken I believe every male in Israel when he reaches 21 must sere or get military training- the whole country is basically one big military. You show me one site that proves that they don't have nukes. Bottom line when you are asked whether you have nukes and you neither deny or confirm it- 99.9% of the time that means you have them- they certaintly have the money and the technology to have one- so to think they don't have one is very naive to say the least.

[Texas Contrarian]

Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

Dude if you want to talk hypothetical hyperbole bullshit than when we can- but to answer your question what's stopping Iran from doing that is having fucking common sense and not wanting to be destroyed off the face of the earth. The CIA states by best estimate Iran is capable of producing at least 1 nuke in the next 5 years- do you know how many nukes the U.S has???? Even if that hypothetical bullshit scenario was to happen- we have enough nukes to respond in such a manner that we can nuke Iran until nothing is left but cockroaches.
Your scenario is as absurd as saying what if an Iranian diplomat has his stomach cut open and a bomb is placed in his intestines and he travels to the White House/ U.N or some crowded American market and detonates the bomb that was implanted in his stomach- you see how absurd that sounds. What in the hell would Iran gain from doing that??? A country that attacks another country has to be prepared for a retaliation hence why do you think all those arab countries don't attack Israel head on??? The reason being Israel response would greatly overshadown any countries first response.

Crazy regimes occasionally do crazy things. Haven't you noticed that from your study (if you've ever undertaken one) of history?

Don't you think U.S. intelligence agencies have to be prepared for almost any potential eventuality?

And you keep talking about Israel. Are you really going to try to draw some sort of moral equivalence between the Israelis and the Iranian mullahs?

And are you really going to try to claim that the Iranian regime has "common sense." That's simply laughable!

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

But WE cannot provide a site, er, that is, a cite for his information.

Israel has nukes and if you think otherwise then ...

Only an undeveloped mind of a Kool-Aid addict could possibly reach that conclusion.

[CuteOldGuy]

Waco, do you think Israel has no nuclear weapons? Why? Because they said they didn't?

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

You fallaciously believed that no nuclear nation had been invaded by another nuclear nation since the development of nuclear weapons. You have the example you demanded, and you were proved wrong. Now you want to quibble over the facts: it happened! WE, you’re also wrong in supposing that the use of such a weapon has to be sanctioned by a “state” per se. A group of terrorists or a group of fanatics could commandeer a nuclear weapon and act on their own. The Second Sino-Japanese War, 1937 to 1945, was not started by government officials in Tokyo. It was wholly initiated by Japanese officers stationed in Manchukuo.

Another group, the 9/11 hijackers, were primarily Saudi Arabian, but they did not represent their “nation” of origin, but rather represented a non-state entity known as al Qaeda. Having already “invaded” the U.S. at some prior date, on 9-11, these nineteen individuals commandeered four commercial jet airliners as weapons and killed some 3,000 innocent people: most of whom were Americans.

Plus, you obviously haven’t been following Iranian missile and naval development have you. Why do you suppose Obama is continuing to endorse SDI (the Missile Defense Shield: aka “Star Wars”) in Europe? http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/wo...an/missile.htm

In February 2009, Iran elevated itself to an exclusive group of nations by launching its first satellite, the Omid, into low earth orbit. It did so by means of its own liquid-fuel, two-stage space rocket. U.S. officials admitted "grave concern" over the achievement and cautioned that the capabilities necessary for the space launch could be applied toward developing long-range ballistic missiles. http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/wo...an/missile.htm

More recently it was announced that Iranian missile cruisers will be patrolling in the Atlantic. They are already in the Red Sea. http://www.militaryfactory.com/ships...RIS-Jamaran-76

And submarines. http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2011\10\06\st ory_6-10-2011_pg14_5

Furthermore, it’s also wrong to imagine that U.S. interests do not transcend its international boundaries. The Iranians do not need ICBMs to impact the U.S. economy. There are already plenty of targets available to the Iranians well within the range of their missiles using capabilities and technologies they already possess. And yet you are all for letting them arm such missiles with nuclear warheads. WE, are you running for office in Iran? When's that election for Parliament?

I.B take everything you said and take out the name IRAN and replace it with ISRAEL- if that happened would we be having this conversation? It's a big concern why because Iran is no longer an ally? So because they are no longer an ally we are to assume that Iran wants to create a nuclear weapon and use it to kill as many people as they can- Iran is just so evil that anything they do is to destroy mankind. So all these other countries that have nukes are close to getting nukes are just good wholesome countries but Iran is the only one that wants to develop nukes for all the bad reason.
Riddle me this I.B- what country has more troops/bases on foreign soil than any other nation? Also, what nation spemds more on Defense/military than the next 10 countries combined? Also, what nation- despite economic times has continued to see it's defense budget increase every year? What nation spends more more on defense alone than some countries entire GDP??? Can you please answer those questions? What Country has invaded 2 other countries in the last 10 years and the country they invaded did not invade them????? Hmmm, once you answer those countries you tell me why countries like Iran and North Korea are trying to get nukes as quick as possible.
I. B the U.S is going ape shit over Iran possibly having a nuke- but shouldn't they be worried more about Pakistan having nukes- you know Pakistan the country that harbored OBL and pretended they didn't know where he was- you know Pakistan where like 30% of the country that government has no control over- it's the same Pakistan that elected a President in a democratic fashion but because we didn't like the leader we orchestrated a military coup- wow way to go USA- you know the same Pakistan that also has a very militant Taliban group that crosses the border and kills some of our American troops.
Also, don't feed this Al-Queada bullshit in Iran- because I will school you on Islam and middle east history- Al-Queada is a Sunni sect of Islam a very extremist sect- they don't even consider Shiites(dominant sect in Iran) as Muslims- so the idea of Iran supporting Al-Queada is absurd- the two groups have major differences- in fact before the U.S invaded Afghanistan and overthrew the Taliban- who do you think was arming the Northern Alliance to fight the Taliban??? You guessed it -Iran! No, I am not running for any office in Iran and personally think their leader is a piece of shit- but the media(jewish owned) paints a poor picture of Iran for obvious reason(s).

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

I. B everyone knows they have nukes- Israel has every top and advanced weapon you can think of and I have no issues with them having one of the most powerful forces in the world- they are surrounded by enemies- in fact if I am not mistaken I believe every male in Israel when he reaches 21 must sere or get military training- the whole country is basically one big military. You show me one site that proves that they don't have nukes. Bottom line when you are asked whether you have nukes and you neither deny or confirm it- 99.9% of the time that means you have them- they certaintly have the money and the technology to have one- so to think they don't have one is very naive to say the least.

Israel conscripts men and women at age 18. They keep their kit and weapon at home so as to be ready at any time.

BTW, not naive, just pulling your chain.
P.S. Israel is an ally, Iran isn't. The U.S. pursues a policy of self-interest: as it should.

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Waco, do you think Israel has no nuclear weapons? Why? Because they said they didn't?

They have them. No matter if they say they don't, or if they nothing about it at all.

Israel has Nukes.

And here's a few things for you to chew on I B Hankering.

first you got there before me on the fact that the age of compulsory conscription is 18 in Israel. And all Israeli citizens are conscripted into military service, including women. And all Israeli citizens can be called up to active duty until the age of 49. As WE said ..

the whole country is basically one big military. Literally.

Now about your rebuttal on American Imperialism. Do your homework. This subject is very old and very controversial.

Empire

In the book "Empire", Michael Hardt and Antonio Negri argue that "the decline of Empire has begun".[27] Hardt says the Iraq War is a classically imperialist war, and is the last gasp of a doomed strategy.[28] This new era still has colonizing power, but it has moved from national military forces based on an economy of physical goods to networked biopower based on an informational and affective economy. The U.S. is central to the development and constitution of a new global regime of international power and sovereignty, termed Empire, but is decentralized and global, and not ruled by one sovereign state; "the United States does indeed occupy a privileged position in Empire, but this privilege derives not from its similarities to the old European imperialist powers, but from its differences.

You don't have to agree and you can even resort to comments about who exactly has been drinking Kool-Aid or not my friend, but i'm not completely off base whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_imperialism



Caricature showing Uncle Sam lecturing four children labelled Philippines, Hawaii, Porto Rico [sic] and Cuba in front of children holding books labelled with various U.S. states. The caption reads: "School Begins. Uncle Sam (to his new class in Civilization): Now, children, you've got to learn these lessons whether you want to or not! But just take a look at the class ahead of you, and remember that, in a little while, you will feel as glad to be here as they are!"

[CuteOldGuy]

Israel can take care of herself. We should butt out. If Iran is thinking of building a nuke, Israel will take it out. If Iran goes to war with Israel, Iran will lose. As will Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon.

Right now they keep poking at Israel, because they know we are holding Israel back. My guess is if we were to quit sticking our nose into their business, things would settle out quickly. But we are there because it is profitable for war profiteers and other major companies for the region to remain in a state of controlled chaos.

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Israel conscripts men and women at age 18. They keep their kit and weapon at home so as to be ready at any time.

BTW, not naive, just pulling your chain.
P.S. Israel is an ally, Iran isn't. The U.S. pursues a policy of self-interest: as it should.

Thanks for correcting me on the age conscripts in Israel- but I agree the U.S is after it's own self-interest and not anyone else- and Iran has to be after it's own self interest and should be allowed too- they have people and borders to protect as well.

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Israel can take care of herself. We should butt out. If Iran is thinking of building a nuke, Israel will take it out. If Iran goes to war with Israel, Iran will lose. As will Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon.

Right now they keep poking at Israel, because they know we are holding Israel back. My guess is if we were to quit sticking our nose into their business, things would settle out quickly. But we are there because it is profitable for war profiteers and other major companies for the region to remain in a state of controlled chaos.

COG I agree- Iran would be dumb to fight Israel actually anyone would- as small as they are they are a force to reckon with- I recall not too long ago watching a video on Israel's military and the ass whoopings they have put on other countries is unheard of- I think the documentary was focusing on an air battle they had against Syrian and in matter of 2 hours- 10 Israeli jet fighters shot down and destroyed 34 Syrian planes- in fact the Syrians last their whole Squadron and the Isrealis didn't lose a single pilot or plane.
However, I think the U.S is becoming too protective of Israel- and we have ended up doing most of Israel's "dirty" work

[CuteOldGuy]

See WE, we CAN agree on some things! Cool, ain't it. I'm not sure, however, that we are too protective of Israel, I think we are too protective of the countries in the region from Israel. Every thing we do to try to make the Muslims like up more fails.

If we could break the oil companies' grip on energy production, and quit using that 19th century fuel, we could walk out of the middle east, and let them blow each other into the Afterlife, and it wouldn't effect us either way.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

They have them. No matter if they say they don't, or if they nothing about it at all.

Israel has Nukes.

And here's a few things for you to chew on I B Hankering.

first you got there before me on the fact that the age of compulsory conscription is 18 in Israel. And all Israeli citizens are conscripted into military service, including women.

Now about your rebuttal on American Imperialism. Do your homework. This subject is very old and very controversial.

Empire

In the book "Empire", Michael Hardt and Antonio Negri argue that "the decline of Empire has begun".[27] Hardt says the Iraq War is a classically imperialist war, and is the last gasp of a doomed strategy.[28] This new era still has colonizing power, but it has moved from national military forces based on an economy of physical goods to networked biopower based on an informational and affective economy. The U.S. is central to the development and constitution of a new global regime of international power and sovereignty, termed Empire, but is decentralized and global, and not ruled by one sovereign state; "the United States does indeed occupy a privileged position in Empire, but this privilege derives not from its similarities to the old European imperialist powers, but from its differences.

You don't have to agree and you can even resort to comments about who exactly has been drinking Kool-Aid or not my friend, but i'm not completely off base whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_imperialism



Caricature showing Uncle Sam lecturing four children labelled Philippines, Hawaii, Porto Rico [sic] and Cuba in front of children holding books labelled with various U.S. states. The caption reads: "School Begins. Uncle Sam (to his new class in Civilization): Now, children, you've got to learn these lessons whether you want to or not! But just take a look at the class ahead of you, and remember that, in a little while, you will feel as glad to be here as they are!"

It was you who said you didn't want to be bothered with anything before the end of WWII. Hawaii became a state and Puerto Rico is going to make that decision in the next year or so. Hawaii and Puerto Rico seem to have fared fairly well, so they too can serve as examples where American intervention has had a positive impact.

The U.S. ruled over the Philippines until the end of WWII – after liberating the Philippines from the Japanese at the cost of tens of thousands of American lives. The Philippines is now an independent nation, and its citizens are doing better now than they were under the Japanese.

The U.S. assisted Cuba in its quest to gain independence from Spain, in 1898. Cuba’s leaders, on the other hand, chose to be under the Soviet sphere of influence. You can see how that worked out for them.

If you want “schooling”, how ‘bout you read: Stanely Karnow’s “In Our Image: America’s Empire in the Philippines” and “Vietnam: A History”; plus, Stephen Kinzer’s “Overthrow: America's Century of Regime Change from Hawaii to Iraq”. It’s all down and dirty politics, and it was all done so that you can sit at your computer and post your indignation on a SHB and be all self-righteous about how evil the U.S. is/was.

[Texaspride74]

Ron Paul is absolutely right about Iran. First of all, they are years away from being anywhere close to having nukes. Second, even if they had a nuke, there military is in no shape to shoot a damn thing at us. Next, to all the people who say, "but what about Isreal?", since when did we become the great protector of all things Isreal. Being an alley to Isreal and running to their defense all the time regardless of whether they are in the right or the wrong is two completely differerent things. We don't owe Isreal anything. Next point, Isreal has over 300 nukes and could take out Iran all on there own if they wanted. Next, the Military Industrial Complex that has been sold to the average American through the propaganda of the Main Stream Media is way out of control. Do you people not realize we are bankrupt and can't afford the wars we are in now, much less starting another one with Iran? Don't you understand that every empire throughout history that has tried to police the world collapsed as a result? No, I stand with Ron Paul, the US Constitution, and the Founding Fathers of this Country and will not support the Nation building, invasions of innocent Countries, and policeing the world that has been brought on by the Military Industrial Complex run a muck.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by Texaspride74

Ron Paul is absolutely right about Iran.

No, I stand with Ron Paul, the US Constitution, and the Founding Fathers of this Country and will not support the Nation building, invasions of innocent Countries, and policeing the world that has been brought on by the Military Industrial Complex run a muck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXKYN...eature=related

Do you mean: Ron Neville Chamberlain Paul?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdnA7...eature=related

[TheDaliLama]

Yeah..............send the boys home.

Meanwhile you Iranian boys just do whatever you want.

We'll draw the line at France. You can keep them this time.