Joe Pa Fired...

[TexTushHog]

Originally Posted by 74comet

TushHog you can set me straight on this, but wouldn't this be considered hearsay since Joe did not witness any actions by Sandusky. With all the legal ramification associated accusing someone of such a heinous and atrocious action didn't Joe do the correct thing and leave it to the AD and VP? Their inaction was the root of this evil event.

You don't report crimes to your supervisor. You report crimes to the police or the DA's office. Period.

[Tina Marie]

You don't report crimes to your supervisor. You report crimes to the police or the DA's office. Period.

But you also have to consider your employer's reporting policies in addition to the law. There are employers such as school districts who fire employees for speaking to third parties. A lot of employers have reporting policies which require employers to go through the proper chain of command, e.g. supervisor.

[Guest020720]

Originally Posted by Tina Marie

But you also have to consider your employer's reporting policies in addition to the law. There are employers such as school districts who fire employees for speaking to third parties. A lot of employers have reporting policies which require employers to go through the proper chain of command, e.g. supervisor.

I think schools are different.

I believe if it involves the harm of a child, the person doing the reporting can not be in threat of loosing their job for waiting to go through the proper chain.

I can try to look this up.

You may be right where other things are concerned - but not when it involves physical harm of a child, sexual or otherwise.

[Guest020720]

Your legal obligation
Current law requires that professionals such as teachers, doctors, nurses, or child daycare workers must make a verbal report within 48 hours. Failure to report suspected child abuse or neglect is a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment of up to 180 days and/or a fine of up to $2,000 (Texas Family Code, Chapter 261).

Reporting suspected child abuse to your principal, school counselor or superintendent will NOT satisfy your obligation under this law. Local school district policy cannot conflict with or supercede the state law requiring you to report child abuse to a law enforcement agency or DFPS.

Your legal Protection
Your report of child abuse or neglect is confidential and immune from civil or criminal liability as long as the report is made in "good faith" and "without malice."

In good faith means that the person making the report took reasonable steps to learn facts that were readily available and at hand. Without malice means that the person did not intend to injure or violate the rights of another person. Provided these two conditions are met, you will also be immune from liability if you are asked to participate in any judicial proceedings that might result from your report.

This is only the state of Texas...I'm sure it's similar in each and every state.
https://www.oag.state.tx.us/victims/childabuse.shtml

[TexTushHog]

Originally Posted by Tina Marie

But you also have to consider your employer's reporting policies in addition to the law. There are employers such as school districts who fire employees for speaking to third parties. A lot of employers have reporting policies which require employers to go through the proper chain of command, e.g. supervisor.

So you're telling me if you show up at work and there is a body in the floor with an hatchet buried in the skull, you're calling your boss, but not the police? Give me a fuckin' break! You call the cops I don't give a shit what the "office policy" is.

The office policy doesn't trump the law. The law says if it's a crime, you report it. Fuck office policy. You were looking for a job when you got that one. You can find another one. And who the hell wants to work for a bunch of assholes who object to you reporting a crime to the police?

The difference between this case and hypothetical with the guy with the hatchet buried in his brain is that people don't take abuse as seriously as they do murder. And while I don't argue that they are the equivalent, they are both felonies and you report them both to the law ASAP. Call you fuckin' boss while the police are on the way. And if he gets upset that you called the law, tell the law because in my mind, that's suspicious.

[Guest020720]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

he office policy doesn't trump the law. The law says if it's a crime, you report it. Fuck office policy. You were looking for a job when you got that one. You can find another one. And who the hell wants to work for a bunch of assholes who object to you reporting a crime to the police? .....
And if he gets upset that you called the law, tell the law because in my mind, that's suspicious.

[Tina Marie]

Fuck office policy.

http://www.ldisd.net/default.aspx?name=jennaslaw

Texas school districts require school employees to report incidents of abuse to the school principal. Universities have similar policies that involve a chain of command for reporting. These policies exist for a reason and should be respected unless a child is in eminent danger. There can be a lot of unitended problems when someone thinks they know more than their employer and do things their way. These policies were put in place to protect all parties involved (the alleged criminal, victim, employee who observed the alleged crime, school district, etc.).

[Guest020720]

Ok, I pulled my info out of my own ass and not from the ATTORNEY GENERAL.

Reporting suspected child abuse to your principal, school counselor or superintendent will NOT satisfy your obligation under this law. Local school district policy cannot conflict with or supercede the state law requiring you to report child abuse to a law enforcement agency or DFPS.

[Guest020720]

and your link even says to report the first one to cps first.
i'm not saying not to report to your boss.

but you don't just tell your boss and think your done. it's not how it works. we have laws in place to make people accountable for what they see and hear and know.

[Int3rested]

how about some commen sense and compassion....

[Tina Marie]

You made several assumptions tntangie.

Assumption #1 School policy and the law are completely seperate.

School policies are written and/or approved by attornies and follow state and federal laws. The law by itself does not take into account unintended problems that can arise from variables such as crimes committed in the workplace.

Assumption #2 Someone who reports a crime to the appropriate chain of command want follow up.

Everyone who reports a crime should follow up on the outcome. It doesn't matter if you report the crime to a supervisor or a detective. This is why the police tell you to call back and check on the status when you file a criminal complaint with a department.

If you follow a school policy on reporting and follow up, you will be okay. Not to mention you want create unintended problems and be fired for doing things YOUR WAY.

[Wheretonow]

Originally Posted by Tina Marie

Staff edit - prohibited topic

Wow...Just Wow...

I'm don't know how all "middle-aged white men" became the villains in the especially sad and unfortunate events at Penn State, but maybe a short history lesson will help.

Middle-aged White Men:

Passed the Civil Rights Act, Equal Employment Opportunity Laws, and Women's Right-to-Choose laws. We were the vast majority of the troops who fought to maintain our "land of the free, home of the brave" status. And we are the ones who mostly invented the items that make life enjoyable; discovered the drugs that make continued health posssible; and preached and prayed for tolerance and good will.

We may not be perfect, and you'll be able to find lots of us who are despicable human beings, but you'll have to search history long and hard to find another group who willingly gave up power in the name of equality.

In the best civil rights tradition, I'd organize a boycot of your services, but you haven't had a review since Arpil and your P411 account isn't active, so it's probably a waste of time.

Have a happy life, preferably outside the hobby.

[Isauro]

[Guest082216-1]

Enough. Any more raciest remarks and some folks will be taking vacations. Stick to the topic. No more personal attacks.

[TexTushHog]

Originally Posted by Tina Marie

You made several assumptions tntangie.

Assumption #1 School policy and the law are completely seperate.

School policies are written and/or approved by attornies and follow state and federal laws. The law by itself does not take into account unintended problems that can arise from variables such as crimes committed in the workplace.

Assumption #2 Someone who reports a crime to the appropriate chain of command want follow up.

Everyone who reports a crime should follow up on the outcome. It doesn't matter if you report the crime to a supervisor or a detective. This is why the police tell you to call back and check on the status when you file a criminal complaint with a department.

If you follow a school policy on reporting and follow up, you will be okay. Not to mention you want create unintended problems and be fired for doing things YOUR WAY.

So many errors it's hard to know where to start. First, while school policies may (or may not) be drawn up by lawyers, whether they conform in all respects with all laws depends on how well drafted they are. Secondly, the very policy that Tina Marie linked to plainly stated that the school employees for this particular district should call law enforcement. So the link that she sponsored show the exact opposite of what she cited it for (although I must confess that the school guideline in question was very badly drafted and confusing. I certainly hope that it was not drafted by a member of my profession.)

As to whether someone on the chain of command want [sic] (I assume won't as in will not) follow up depends on their competence, whether they are protecting someone, whether they have conflicting loyalties, etc. Which is exactly why the law in unambiguous and places the duty to report directly on the individual in question to report directly to law enforcement rather than relying on some corporate chain of command.

As to Tina Marie's claim that by following school policy you will be "OK," which presumably means that you have complied with the law, that's nothing more than 100% unadulterated bullshit. Compliance with a corporate policy does nothing to discharge your duty under the law and would not be a defense to a charge of failure to report (unless you worked for the police or the DA's office).