Trickle Down - How's That Working For You

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by austxjr

Joe_blow, statements like that show you don't know the difference between micro and macro economics and don't get the first thing about the U.S. being a sovereign with a fiat monetary system much less being the reserve currency of the world. Bottom-line is that WE CAN'T GO BROKE unless we just don't have the political will to pay our obligations at least not for the forseeable future.

We are in this mess because of the terrible economic downturn and the best way to get out of it is grow the economy which could happen better if the Republicans didn't block just about everything they thought might succeed (because Nixon Reagan, & Bush 41 did similar) for their own hoped for political advantage. If you go into austerity during recession or recovery, you throw the economy back into recession (look up aggregate spending).

Republicans were for:
- deficit spending
- national healthcare
- stimulus spending
- infrastructure spending in a recession for jobs
Before they were against it! This Republican party has abandoned all it's convictions and connection to economic reality for short term political advantage. If Obama wins there will be a civil war in the party and that and demographics will most likely destroy it as we know it. Good riddance, though I'll regret the existence of a loyal opposition (though they are not too loyal now).

It sounds like you would like a country run on libertarian principles, but name one modern industrial country, much less even any successful country by any measure run on those principles. You can't, they are all run on those socialist/democratic principles and ideas you say cause a mess. Maybe Sudan is a libertarian example...want to move there? Be like Sudan?

Well technically, as long as we can print money, we won't be bankrupt. We'll just be paying back investors with a worthless dollar. We could pay off the national debt today, if we were willing to print sixteen trillion dollars. We can fund our one hundred trillion dollars in unfunded liabilites with a worthless dollar too I suppose.

You libs crack me up. According to you people, it's never a good time to control spending. If times are good, you people want to ramp up spending and expand the social welfare state; after all, we have no excuse, since times are good. When times are bad, you say we need to ramp up spending to stimulate the economy.

[LordBeaverbrook]

JB, you are correct sir so you are not as clueless as your posts first indicated. The risk of "printing" money, actually it is mostly bits now not paper, is inflation which makes the money worth less and in extreme cases worthless as you indicated, however, there is a lot of territory between creating 16 Trillion $ and where we are now. Since 2007, inflation hasn't been the danger, deflation and depression wee and are. Reality intrude much on your beliefs these days JB? We wouldn't want you to change your ideology or "values" based on facts now.

BTW, I'm a prag before a lib and conserve in some areas. Tell me again which Republican administration controlled spending again? Bush 43? No, bush 41? No. Reagan? No. Name one! At least Libs say they are for spending and do it (and cut some too from time to time), not say they are against it and have never seen a corporate, military or even entitlement hand out they didn't like when it comes time to vote or sign! Remember Bush's drug entitlement for seniors (with the donut hole)? At least Libs aren't hypocrites!

BTW, IMHO it's always a good time to control spending, just not radical and unconsidered cuts to people's security net during a slow recovery.


Consider this, please, Republicans were for:

- deficit spending
- national healthcare
- stimulus spending
- infrastructure spending in a recession for jobs
Before they were against it!

This Republican party seems to have abandoned all it's convictions and connection to economic reality for short term political advantage. If Obama wins there will be a civil war in the party and that and demographics will most likely destroy it as we know it. Good riddance, though I'll regret the existence of a loyal opposition (though they are not too loyal lately).

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by austxjr

JB, you are correct sir so you are not as clueless as your posts first indicated. The risk of "printing" money, actually it is mostly bits now not paper, is inflation which makes the money worth less and in extreme cases worthless as you indicated, however, there is a lot of territory between creating 16 Trillion $ and where we are now. Since 2007, inflation hasn't been the danger, deflation and depression wee and are. Reality intrude much on your beliefs these days JB? We wouldn't want you to change your ideology or "values" based on facts now.

BTW, I'm a prag before a lib and conserve in some areas. Tell me again which Republican administration controlled spending again? Bush 43? No, bush 41? No. Reagan? No. Name one! At least Libs say they are for spending and do it (and cut some too from time to time), not say they are against it and have never seen a corporate, military or even entitlement hand out they didn't like when it comes time to vote or sign! Remember Bush's drug entitlement for seniors (with the donut hole)? At least Libs aren't hypocrites!

BTW, IMHO it's always a good time to control spending, just not radical and unconsidered cuts to people's security net during a slow recovery.


Consider this, please, Republicans were for:

- deficit spending
- national healthcare
- stimulus spending
- infrastructure spending in a recession for jobs
Before they were against it!

This Republican party seems to have abandoned all it's convictions and connection to economic reality for short term political advantage. If Obama wins there will be a civil war in the party and that and demographics will most likely destroy it as we know it. Good riddance, though I'll regret the existence of a loyal opposition (though they are not too loyal lately).

I'm sorry to hear about your condition. Wear a long coat, and maybe no one will notice.

[LovingKayla]

Originally Posted by daty/o

. Your opponents are at the top of the food chain.

How the hell did you know? Who told him? You mother fuckers. We had a deal.

[Ducbutter]

Originally Posted by austxjr

Actually Ducbutter, supply side and trickle down are related because tax breaks are a tenet of both, but they are not exactly the same. So it isn't "simple as that". It's more like crocodiles and alligators as supply side is more of a comprehensive maco policy. OTOH, I'm thrilled that you made the distinction between macro and micro. When someone sites a tenet of micro like, "we balance our house/company/city/state/county budget so the U.S. should" it clearly shows they have no understanding at all. Worst, is that if you ask why the answer is usually "just 'cause"citing a micro principle.

When Main St. Does well, Wall St. Does well, not the other way around.

When the Middle class does well, everybody, especially the rich, does well (ever hear of aggregate demand?) not the other way around.

As far as "build it and they will come" that is much the way high tech works with middle class people leveraging themselves to the hilt to start a company, follow their dream and hire people. Statistics show most of the jobs come from small businesses and when those are successful they become big businesses or get bought by a big business. Other business segments maybe not so much.

Trickle down is just a pejorative for supply side econ. I don't believe there are college courses in trickle down nor any texts written. Not seerious ones anyway. There weren't when I was in school.
Yes there are many differences between micro & macro but then many things translate as well. You can equate defecit spending on the macro level with debt management in micro. Going into debt for capital investment may make perfect sense depending on what the payoff is and how you are currently positioned. I would ask you, do you think we are currently positioned well?
Economies provide revenue for the government. Not the other way around. But I agree with you on the wall street/main street thing. Wall street is a gambling parlor.
If supply side and Laffer taught anything it's that not all tax hikes are bad and not all cuts are good and vice versa. It's a very fluid thing.
I've forgotten plenty since my last econ class but aggregate demand isn't one of them. Demand is what we do not have.

[Ducbutter]

Originally Posted by Little Stevie

IDIOT ALERT!

In this case, Ducbrains, parsing words STILL doesn't make the theory of Trickle Down Economics a viable macro OR micro economic theory because we have Reagan's failed S&L Bubble and now Bush's Housing bubble to prove the rich who get the tax breaks and deregulation will simply gamble the money away and make the taxpayers cover their gambling losses to avert economic collapse.



In concept, "Supply Side" economics and "Trickle Down" economics are IDENTICAL.

Ducbrains can argue macro and micro all he wants but the example given by CJ7 is a perfect one showing why Supply Side Economics do not work to ease the backward slide of the middle class. It is also a grand example of how the greedy find alternative ways to create "wealth" that benefit few others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply-side_economics

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickle-down_economics

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macroeconomic

Of course, you who want to remain stupid will not take the time to follow the links.

Blow me!
My three semesters of college econ (2 A's and a B) doesn't make me Milton Friedman but it means I don't need schooling from Wikipedia. You however should try reading your own links 'cause nowhere in the link on "Trickle down" does it say it's an economic theory. It's a pejorative description of supply side theory used by it's detractors. But thanks for making my point. Dipshit.

[daty/o]

Originally Posted by LovingKayla

How the hell did you know? Who told him? You mother fuckers. We had a deal.

I don't see it in your showcase, but I'm assuming from your attitude that you like Greek. And you can bet, now that Geo W has pulled his out, Mitt and Nitmit will be lining up to slip back in. They might be at the top, but what is it exactly that you imagine they are going to do for you, dear? They don't even respect you as a woman. Or are you just voting against the evil black man that hasn't unfucked things quickly enough?

[CuteOldGuy]

Well, datd, you are quite the classless bastard. Kayla is generally right on point, and has not uttered a racist comment on here, yet you have to bring up the race card. You must be out of points to make, and you are certainly out of class.

In just a few lines, you insulted her gender, her profession and called her a racist. That must be a record for incivility. And if I know this board at all, I'll get flamed for this post, and you will slide on by. But we know what you are.

[Ducbutter]

Originally Posted by CJ7

lets see ...

I'll go buy a piece of property, build a huge warehouse, hire 100 employees, invest in assembly line machinery, start producing product, fill up the warehouse with the product, advertise, advertise, advertise, have a massive monthly overhead ...

and hope like hell there is a demand for my product

supply before demand.

Brilliant!

CJ big businesses do that sort of thing regularly if their research tells them it can pay. A large part of marketing consists of creating a market for a particular good.

[daty/o]

So basically, what you're saying is that I have, in just a few lines, done what the GOP has been doing for months, without her even noticing? I think you just like pushing buttons, because you are far too literate to be that stupid. I have a great deal of respect for women, in any profession. Please show me where that is echoed anywhere in the Republican platform.
And you know what, you're right, my apologies to Kayla for even insinuating that race has anything to do with her politics. I should not assume that she buys into ALL the bullshit you Obama haters put on here. My deepest apologies.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by CJ7

lets see ...

I'll go buy a piece of property, build a huge warehouse, hire 100 employees, invest in assembly line machinery, start producing product, fill up the warehouse with the product, advertise, advertise, advertise, have a massive monthly overhead ...

and hope like hell there is a demand for my product

supply before demand.

Brilliant!

Henry Ford started out in his kitchen, asshole.

http://www.ford.co.uk/experience-for...HenryFordStory

[CuteOldGuy]

Datd, my comments had nothing to do with the Republicans. You took a cheap shot at Kayla, and I told you what I thought.

[daty/o]

Well COG, that's very sweet and I'm sure she appreciates you donning the armor for her, but if you really cared, you would spend less time shielding her from the truth. Your politics might drift a bit farther to the right, but I don't see you as irrational. If you were really observant, you might have picked up on what I was trying to say to her, albeit in my classless, racist way.

[LovingKayla]

Lol COG I didn't even know he said anything until u pointed it out. Lol

And yes I so do like it in the ass. Push it slowly and oh DAMN dato do you have anything besides hair down there? Im reaching... Are you post op? You bastard!! You wound me up and can't even follow through? I'm telling your boyfriend, you SOB.

Don't think for a second I'm not painfully aware of the fact the very exsistance of a Christian hooker is hypocritical. Me losing all credibility is just fine with me because most of you are all whore mongers yourself and SOME of you lead worship on Sundays or preach to the masses. I said all that to say I'm the Malcolm Rennalds of hobby land. I believe the way I do because its right. I stand to endure great pain if Romney wins. I don't care what folks think of me. The opinion of others should never make a difference in your vote. If I thought the purple aliens from the medusa cascade were the right choice, I'd vote for them too

I own it. This is all my choice to take care of folks that would die in the judgement of higher beings like you, and your post op self. I choose to carry and debt for my sin but you know what else, thats between me and black Jesus.

[IIFFOFRDB]

Originally Posted by LovingKayla

Lol COG I didn't even know he said anything until u pointed it out. Lol

And yes I so do like it in the ass. Push it slowly and oh DAMN dato do you have anything besides hair down there? Im reaching... Are you post op? You bastard!! You wound me up and can't even follow through? I'm telling your boyfriend, you SOB.

Don't think for a second I'm not painfully aware of the fact the very exsistance of a Christian hooker is hypocritical. Me losing all credibility is just fine with me because most of you are all whore mongers yourself and SOME of you lead worship on Sundays or preach to the masses. I said all that to say I'm the Malcolm Rennalds of hobby land. I believe the way I do because its right. I stand to endure great pain if Romney wins. I don't care what folks think of me. The opinion of others should never make a difference in your vote. If I thought the purple aliens from the medusa cascade were the right choice, I'd vote for them too

I own it. This is all my choice to take care of folks that would die in the judgement of higher beings like you, and your post op self. I choose to carry and debt for my sin but you know what else, thats between me and black Jesus.

Praise THE LORD, my sister.