Keeping marriages alive with affairs, asexuality, polyamory and living apart

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by Zabrina Sarafina

I could write an whole essay on this, but long speeches/lectures are overrated

Bottom line, words of wisdom...Be Selfish. Do what makes You feel truly happy, healthy, and balanced. If thats being monogamous, poly, having full blown secret affairs, living apart from the SO, combination of all the above etc

Human nature varies and evolves. Changes.

There is no right or wrong. Just own Perception

Love comes from the brain not the heart (biologically)
Hmm so what does that say?

and Idk where else I'm going with this haha it's 5am and I've been up all night researching on introverts/extroverts

Wow kooky

wow... well nice post, but i disagree on the selfish part. althouogh it lies all in perception a lie is still a lie (tomato tomato), and being selfish can be cruel if it is at the expenses of other people, which means that I do think there is some right or wrong.

Recently had some argentine macho idiot telling me he is single, critizising my job, wanting me to quit, and telling me , he would leave me , if I continue to be polyamorous, and ever date another man (bwahaha)

and then -
surprise

i found out, after becoming suspicious about some stories he told me,
he was living together with his girlfriend, telling me bullshit lies from the first day on, and - I mean seriously?? - criticising poly and escorting, while using escorts and having a girlfriend.

wow - I wonder what some guys are smoking. As I get older I try to date younger guys, but their immature bullshit gives me the creeps. Freaking amateurs. Learn your lesson on how to hold secret lovers, then come back to me, but please don`t bother with the amateur BS I can see throough in 2 minutes (like for example using the SAME emailadress for two different skype adresses and wondering how I found out the idiot uses two skypes??? REALLY???? .....bwahahahaha....)

Back to the over 50 years ones . They might not be more mature, but at least you know what kind of Drama you get into beforehand ;-))

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by Leah Ireland

Thanks for asking 69er!

Actually I think a lot of escorts are some of the most romantic people you can meet. We believe in love and haven't sold ourselves for the lucrative marriages we could make. Intellectually I'm against this, obviously elsewise I'm all there.

I agree. And honestly - with a few exceptions I consider escorts to be the most honest and straight forward no BS people I ever got to know. If you want to know where you stand, escorts are a great source.

I believe it is because we know "the other side" . That also counts for safe sex. I have seen or heard about "solid" women (regular ones) doing things or having attitudes that no escort ever would have without being ashamed of herself.

Lucrative marriages aside. I think its all about reflection. if you are at the other side you clearly see the difference. I don^t say escorts are the "better" people, but I say - we clearly tend to think more and reflect more.
I - personally - am just not cut out for the burgeouise regular world. It bores me. I take an occasional glimpse sometimes, and when i am in a bad mood I wonder what could have happened, had I married MR. X who proposed and is oh so wealthy - but after all I am glad I chose love and not calculation or facade.

[Leah Ireland]

Originally Posted by ninasastri

wow... well nice post, but i disagree on the selfish part. althouogh it lies all in perception a lie is still a lie (tomato tomato), and being selfish can be cruel if it is at the expenses of other people, which means that I do think there is some right or wrong.

Recently had some argentine macho idiot telling me he is single, critizising my job, wanting me to quit, and telling me , he would leave me , if I continue to be polyamorous, and ever date another man (bwahaha)

and then -
surprise

i found out, after becoming suspicious about some stories he told me,
he was living together with his girlfriend, telling me bullshit lies from the first day on, and - I mean seriously?? - criticising poly and escorting, while using escorts and having a girlfriend.

wow - I wonder what some guys are smoking. As I get older I try to date younger guys, but their immature bullshit gives me the creeps. Freaking amateurs. Learn your lesson on how to hold secret lovers, then come back to me, but please don`t bother with the amateur BS I can see throough in 2 minutes (like for example using the SAME emailadress for two different skype adresses and wondering how I found out the idiot uses two skypes??? REALLY???? .....bwahahahaha....)

Back to the over 50 years ones . They might not be more mature, but at least you know what kind of Drama you get into beforehand ;-))

Bummer about the Argentinian guy, but I haven't found too much difference in the younger and older guys. Privately or professionally.

[Leah Ireland]

Nina Sastri - "I believe it is because we know "the other side" . That also counts for safe sex. I have seen or heard about "solid" women (regular ones) doing things or having attitudes that no escort ever would have without being ashamed of herself."

I agree! I can't believe things I know about some 'straight' women. Which leads onto your next point which I will now copy and paste...

[Leah Ireland]

Nina Sastri - " Lucrative marriages aside. I think its all about reflection. if you are at the other side you clearly see the difference. I don^t say escorts are the "better" people, but I say - we clearly tend to think more and reflect more.
I - personally - am just not cut out for the burgeouise regular world. It bores me. I take an occasional glimpse sometimes, and when i am in a bad mood I wonder what could have happened, had I married MR. X who proposed and is oh so wealthy - but after all I am glad I chose love and not calculation or facade."

I'm with Nina to quite a degree. I can totally see the business sense in marrying a rich guy that one doesn't love and being looked after for the rest of your life, and too have been offered dizzying financial arrangements termed marriage...

Being here, I obviously haven't chosen that - so far. But I do know women who have sold themselves that way, big time. At the age of 60, typically, they are out of the marriage. They may or may not be in a safe financial position - but usually not so poor either - but sometimes/typically they do not even know who they are. They have been acting for decades for survival.

[Roothead]

It can't possibly be so strong if you dilute it....

Oh to be only so smart......the reason it is so strong is because it is transparent... no games, no skulduggery and moderation in all things... what is perceived to be diluted by some, is in fact, full strength to others.... such is life, love and logic

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by Leah Ireland

Being here, I obviously haven't chosen that - so far. But I do know women who have sold themselves that way, big time. At the age of 60, typically, they are out of the marriage. They may or may not be in a safe financial position - but usually not so poor either - but sometimes/typically they do not even know who they are. They have been acting for decades for survival.

exaclty. I am not saying that you dislike mr. wealthy x, but the money on his side that he is offering to prestige his attractiveness for women (its not so simple, for me, most of it starts with people trying to buy me out of the business and offering me whatnot. It much more often scares me, than flatters me.

"straight" women are much more financially oriented. I have seen that point of financial security pop up a lot of times , for example when a friend of mien was abused by her then boyfriend ( a wealthy man) and she said, she can`t afford to leave him because her whole education depends on him (he pays her schooling and also looks after her child). But still, he beats her sometimes.

I think, that we as escorts have the opportunity to get the cash via our dependency on many men rather than on one. But this allows a certain freedom as well. Which sometimes "straight" women - after long relationships and varying financial and economic considerations don`t have, because they are used to a lifestyle some mostly can`t come of with themselves.

Of course there are plenty of women who would never have wealthy guys for financial support, or even think about these kind of things, and who have a better career than many men have. I have some girlfriends like these, they do exactly what they want to do and turn away men they don`t like no matter what they offer them.

But when it comes to the "being dependent " part, i consider escorting a more honest way to "do it".

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by Roothead

It can't possibly be so strong if you dilute it....

Oh to be only so smart......the reason it is so strong is because it is transparent... no games, no skulduggery and moderation in all things... what is perceived to be diluted by some, is in fact, full strength to others.... such is life, love and logic

That is a great sociological enterprise you mention here. A great teacher once taught me that its all set and setting, What is considerend as "strong" in one societal setting is considered as "weak" in the exact opposite site. Sometimes people lie out of respect.

Since I had the argentine interference I became curious about this mentality of macho-ism.

It is based in heavy catholicism and in some cultures it is normal to lie. Because in catholicism you lie, beg for forgiveness, lie again, and beg for frogiveness again. Plus, a lot of shame and guilt surrounds the "non transparent affairs". Everything tht is talked about is legit and therefor existent. If you lie and keep things in the dark nothing is legit and it is non existent. So the secrecy is a safe heaven. So how do women in these cultures deal with it?
They don`t believe what men say, ever. They know the tricks and know what and how to believe and make sure things don`t happen. it is more about control than about trust. They just cntrol their men to some extent. And just having female friends is kind of suspicious.

ANd if things happen , as long as they are not talked about or never are so easy to find out, it is kind of ok. The lie is a respect. To tell th truth is a disrespect to the woman (unfortunately in macho cultures its still the men that rule the world - a female cheater - that is a differenrt matter..)

We westerners are more raised in a protestant ethic, where the lie is a no go and something bad, and where you don`t expect peope to lie to you, and if it happens it is punished sevrely.
In protestant ethics there is no forgiveness and doing wrong all the time. You stick to your ethics or you fail. Of course this is very tough to do, and the catholic model of forgiveness is "easier" for the humans, but also more tricky on the self reflection part.
Because they divide the world into good and bad women, and never question these definitions.
So - to assume a hooker woud deserve the regular respect given a private non working context does not apply.

On the other hand lying about a relationship and badmouthing your so calles ex and saying you should have better been alone (after the divorce) is not a sign of respect either.

But its sbout the show and the facade. If woman 1 gets introduced to mummy and daddy and you "play" happy family with her (althught you secretely search for another lover - to end the relationship - not necessarily a hooker though, but any ordinary woman, and good bye facade) then it is a reputabl relatioinship. ANd the one that is secret is not, no matter who and how the lie is placed.



In our culture being lied to is more deceitful than being sexually betrayed or emotionally. In other cultures a lie is a sign of rspect. If you betray and I don`t get it, it is kind of ok, as long as my friends don`t see you do it either and I am the mummy and pappy introduced jewel

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by John Bull

Couldn't have been much. Fromm never fucked anyone but his valet.

Well, the book is nice, though. Fromms Theories are basically from the Idea of"being" somthing versus "having" as to possess, which I enjoy. But his theories about relationships are also very mono-normative and judgemental about opening up. He is an interesting read for me though. Not exaclty this book on love, but his other books are quite very good and enjoyable for me personally.

I personally loved to read "Albert Ellis" - Sex and Love in the 21st century" , maybe some of you enjoy as well. That book- btw - was written in the 50ies and heavily censored until the original version was able to be published 10!! years later. I read it recently for my thesis and I still do think it`s quite accurate. It reflects on the Idea that cultures evolve technically and intellectually and culturally, but the idea of sex always stays the same and any "evolvement" is heavily suppressed. He tries to reflect on why this is the case and how change can happen.

[Leah Ireland]

Originally Posted by ninasastri

exaclty. I am not saying that you dislike mr. wealthy x, but the money on his side that he is offering to prestige his attractiveness for women (its not so simple, for me, most of it starts with people trying to buy me out of the business and offering me whatnot. It much more often scares me, than flatters me.

"straight" women are much more financially oriented. I have seen that point of financial security pop up a lot of times , for example when a friend of mien was abused by her then boyfriend ( a wealthy man) and she said, she can`t afford to leave him because her whole education depends on him (he pays her schooling and also looks after her child). But still, he beats her sometimes.

I think, that we as escorts have the opportunity to get the cash via our dependency on many men rather than on one. But this allows a certain freedom as well. Which sometimes "straight" women - after long relationships and varying financial and economic considerations don`t have, because they are used to a lifestyle some mostly can`t come of with themselves.

Of course there are plenty of women who would never have wealthy guys for financial support, or even think about these kind of things, and who have a better career than many men have. I have some girlfriends like these, they do exactly what they want to do and turn away men they don`t like no matter what they offer them.

But when it comes to the "being dependent " part, i consider escorting a more honest way to "do it".

That's such an interesting reply. I'm shocked as I'm sure most are re. a woman who takes a beating now and again for financial security for her and her child. But it cannot be such a rare thing.

I think it's very rare for a woman to have a 'better' career than men - the glass ceiling is real and women who get beyond it are not considered too attractive in general.

What disturbs me are the many many women in America who don't earn so much but contribute far too much in their relationships with men, including financially.

Women to me seem to have lower self-esteem in America than women in Europe. But then, maybe I just tended to run with women in Europe who were very self-directed and conscious. Maybe such women are not so common there either.

But funny how a lot of races think that American women tend to have lost it in terms of their relations with men. They give far too much and get far too little - that's the general, across the board view I hear from men from diverse countries. Entirely unsolicited.

And yes, one can generalise and we always do.

[4karlos]

Very complex and powerful question!! ...It definitely triggers generalizations and superficial judgement but also invites to intelligent conversations.

The rational behind the person having an affair because he/she is no longer in love with the spouse/partner is way different than the rational for the one having an affair because he/she is not getting enough or any sex. Then digging deeper we can find many reasons for not getting enough, from stress to tiressom, from boreness to aging. Is an affair more legit because your spouse is keeping you on diet than having an affair because your life lacks thrill like drivng fast cars, crossing oceans, travelling to exotic places etc.

Bottom line, this one falls on a that weird category called "it depends" which normally alienates engineers (yes or no, black or white) and people with limited intelectual performance (too complex). Ok I know...blah blah blah but I haven't pitched in with my own rational....I do it because I find too few reasons for not and...backing NinaSastri, I agree, those little escapades are taking a lot of stress and frustration away therefore helping in keeping my marriage afloat.

Cheers!

[Guest121613]

Leah, I like what you are saying. The escorts I have been with that are more romantic and believe in love seem to have a better handle on who they are and are in more control of their career, and who they choose for clients. I believe if escort has this belief system, they will be more successful, and the success will also benefit the clients in and out of the client/escort relationship.

Originally Posted by Leah Ireland

Actually I think a lot of escorts are some of the most romantic people you can meet. We believe in love and haven't sold ourselves for the lucrative marriages we could make. Intellectually I'm against this, obviously elsewise I'm all there.

[Guest121613]

hmmm, a bit harsher than I would like, and yes, I may have technically cheated, but there is only one person I want to grow old with, one person whom I will take care of and house, and one person that only death will do us to part, I am still "truly" married

are there escorts that I love as well? maybe (yes). Are there others non-escorts that I love, that I don't have sex with? YES

Is seducing someone to cheat by using a great web page and provocative photos any different than talking someone into cheating?

Originally Posted by Leah Ireland

Thanks for asking 69er!

If someone cheats on their marriage then as far as I'm concerned they're not truly married. I have never talked anyone into cheating on their spouse. It has always been the other way around - are you surprised??? I would think that that's the norm with women.

[Guest121613]

I really like the challenges in this thread, I can't agree more with what is said below,

though exclusive monogamy and sex is periodically re-invented, can only be successful at the one-one level through passion, affection, and creativity.

I am curious if a man cheats, whether escort, or affair, if it is result of either lacking passion, affection, or creativity on the home front. Do not think I am blaming the wives, as a marriage takes two.

Originally Posted by ninasastri

The idea of combining monogamy with exclusive love and exclusive sex is a recent one , and has failed and will continue to fail. There is a lot of hypocrisy surrounding it, as we all know.
........

the idea of a marriage is to be stable and long term and drama free. There have been a lot of puritan ideas on how to keep it that way. For example badmouthing passion over rationality.
So, since you need passion and excitement, that was kept for the casual encounters. A marriage had to stay trouble free, and free from too much emotional outbursts and variables of uncontrolled features.

We escorts are in one way there to "sanitize" marriages. If that is bad or good , is a personal and moral choice. But a realistical choice would be to "see" things. I don`t think its bad to keep a marriage going by using escorts as catalysator. But there has to be something for women, too. And most often marriages are pretty good like that.

[Af-Freakin]

Originally Posted by ninasastri

But when it comes to the "being dependent " part, i consider escorting a more honest way to "do it".

that makes no sense. over 99% of the world disagrees with u. there r many kinds of dependency. financial dependency isnt the only kind. many times depending upon another human being is a good thing, especially when love & family r involved. of course, 1 needs to b a normal functioning individual 4 that dependency 2 b positive. humans r social animals. dependency iz in our nature.