Fox News Trial Starts with . . . Fox News Hiding Evidence

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

In Tiny’s America, a person with significant means could defame his enemies, opponents and competitors without regard for the truth as long as he has the money to get the lie aired constantly on TV and in print. If the things stated are true, the law says, go ahead. But if it’s a lie, the law says you can be sued into bankruptcy. That’s the beauty of the system, a person can decide not to tell lies in print or on the air and there won’t be a lawsuit. I thought we liked people making choices and living with consequences. Or does that not apply to conservatives and the conservative media?

So you want to bankrupt all the politicians (i.e. people who defame their opponents without regard for the truth)? Or rather all the politicians with significant means? Those with, as Salty says, big $$$$ targets on their backs? The plaintiffs' attorneys wouldn't have the motivation to go after the rest.

In Russia, the powers that be can just say Alexei Navalny is a liar and throw him in the clinker. Now you're not going to see that here. I guess they'd just bankrupt him instead, if you got him in front of a judge and jurors who didn't like him. Which is exactly what Singapore's People's Action Party does to its opponents.

I wouldn't by any means put Navalny in the same category as Sidney Powell, who has a screw loose. But who's going to make that determination? A court in Alabama or New York? She probably will be bankrupted.

If something similar happens on MSNBC someday, and it may very well, you're not going to see me saying the channel should be bankrupted or shut down.

[Salty Again]

... Trump is the most lied-about figure ever in American politics.

If ANYBODY got any standing to SUE for all the false tales
and outright lies told about them from the News Media - it's HIM!

And you lads surely know it.

BILLIONS to be made for "Trump/Russia Collusion" and the
"Steele dossier" ALONE!

CBS News - "60 Minutes" - Lesley Stahl, I believe... Trump interview
before the election - and Trump mentioned the Hunter laptop
and Biden money and Lesley there cut Trump off and told him
the laptop had been "debunked" and she dropped the subject.

No apology from her or CBS for lying to both Trump and the
American public.... Perfect for a lawsuit.

... Surely reckon the Trump barristers are taking score of everything.

##### Salty

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Salty Again

... Trump is the most lied-about figure ever in American politics.

If ANYBODY got any standing to SUE for all the false tales
and outright lies told about them from the News Media - it's HIM!

And you lads surely know it.

BILLIONS to be made for "Trump/Russia Collusion" and the
"Steele dossier" ALONE!

CBS News - "60 Minutes" - Lesley Stahl, I believe... Trump interview
before the election - and Trump mentioned the Hunter laptop
and Biden money and Lesley there cut Trump off and told him
the laptop had been "debunked" and she dropped the subject.

No apology from her or CBS for lying to both Trump and the
American public.... Perfect for a lawsuit.

... Surely reckon the Trump barristers are taking score of everything.

##### Salty

In Blackman's America, Trump could sue his critics who lied into bankruptcy.

[1blackman1]

Absolutely. If people lied on him (which we shall see since he threatens to sue everyone that says things he doesn’t like), then maybe he should sue. As I said, truth is an absolute defense so, we shall see what proof they have to back up their statements. People should maybe try to be as truthful as possible to avoid defamation.

Salty believes people have lied on Trump and Tiny thinks we’re in Russia, both sadly confused.

If Trump believed people lied on him or had a wreckless disregard for the truth to the point of “actual malice” he should sue them and bring that to a stop. There’s a reason he doesn’t, and it’s not because he is a good guy. It’s because there is likely a factual basis to support the statements made about him that can be supported with evidence.

I won’t even respond to the silly comparisons with Russia or any other place. It’s pretty simple. Don’t lie and promote lies, try your best to provide supportable allegations and you don’t have to worry about libel or defamation suits. If you wanna promote lies, you shouldn’t be protected. That’s not even close to what freedom of speech or the press is. You can be wrong, that’s not defamation. But promoting and telling lies has a consequence.

[Tiny]

Fess up Blackman. You’re a tad bit biased. If it weren’t for ridiculously high payouts like what Dominion’s getting, you’d be billing out at $200 an hour instead of $1000.

[Salty Again]

... We KNOW that the Hillary Clinton campaign had the lads
from Perkins-Coie push the infamous bullshit "Steele Dossier"
AS FACT.

While they surely KNEW all-along that it was FAKE.
The payed someone for its creation.

So THAT is Lying about Trump - with Malice!

... Right?

#### Salty

[69in2it69]

Originally Posted by Salty Again

... We KNOW that the Hillary Clinton campaign had the lads
from Perkins-Coie push the infamous bullshit "Steele Dossier"
AS FACT.

While they surely KNEW all-along that it was FAKE.
The payed someone for its creation.

So THAT is Lying about Trump - with Malice!

... Right?

#### Salty

Then why aren’t Trump and his “barristers” bringing suit? He surely has plenty of experience sueing… Could it be it’s just a more profitable business model to send emails asking for donations from fools than to actually pay lawyers to lose, again? If I had a mailing list of 100 million, and I could get 1% to send me 5 bucks a month for my “never ending fight against the boogeyman” I’d be laughing. Just like he is. I don’t fault him for it, YOU ALL are paying off his debt to his foreign lenders…because the mighty businessman can’t, so he’s improvised.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

Fox makes about 1 to 1 and a half Billion a year. They just paid out nearly a year of revenue...

Wrong.

Fox News paid out more than half a year's operating earnings, not revenues. Revenues are your total sales (in this instance, mostly ad billings) whereas earnings are what's left over after you've paid all your bills & expenses. (Can't believe I even have to explain this shit.)

Keep in mind that Fox News is just one of many profitable holdings owned by its parent Fox Corp. Last year Fox Corp. reported gross revenues of $12.9 billion and net earnings of $2.2 billion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_Corporation

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

Truth is something you can prove or put forth credible evidence of...

If the things stated are true, the law says, go ahead. But if it’s a lie, the law says you can be sued into bankruptcy. That’s the beauty of the system, a person can decide not to tell lies in print or on the air and there won’t be a lawsuit. I thought we liked people making choices and living with consequences...

Funny how someone who claims to be so familiar with and throughly immersed in the law would think the difference between "truth" and "lies" is always a simple matter of black and white.

Much of the time what one side brands a "lie" can be more accurately described as an exaggeration with a kernel of truth at its core.

Lawyers are paid to spin lies into truth... and truth into lies.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by Salty Again

... Trump is the most lied-about figure ever in American politics.

If ANYBODY got any standing to SUE for all the false tales
and outright lies told about them from the News Media - it's HIM!

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

Absolutely...

If Trump believed people lied on him or had a wreckless (sic) disregard for the truth to the point of “actual malice” he should sue them and bring that to a stop. There’s a reason he doesn’t, and it’s not because he is a good guy...

It’s pretty simple. Don’t lie and promote lies, try your best to provide supportable allegations and you don’t have to worry about libel or defamation suits...

Wrong again.

It's not "pretty simple" as you so disingenuously claim. In Trump's case the bar is much higher since he is a public figure. That makes him fair game for the liars in the media. If Trump doesn't sue, it's because he knows it would be a waste of time and money, based on legal precedent.

Plaintiffs like Dominion and Smartmatics are private companies. For that matter, Richard Jewell and Nicholas Sandmann were likewise private citizens whose reputations were unfairly defamed by media organizations. So their lawsuits were stronger.

It's surprising that an experienced "barrister" like 1b1 would pretend not to know all this. Or maybe not.

https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment...nd-officials#:

[Tiny]

According to a Wall Street Journal article today, the owner of Dominion paid $38 million for a 78% stake in Dominion in 2018. Sounds like it will pocket a bundle, way out of line with the actual damage to the company.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Lawyers are paid to spin lies into truth... and truth into lies.

Very true, and well said

[1blackman1]

"It can't just be, you know somebody tweeted this. It's got to be demonstrable facts that can be laid out with evidence because that's what a court of law is gonna look to, not just an allegation but actual facts," Ted Cruz said in the tape (he was talking to a Fox News host) that was given exclusively to MSNBC's Ari Melber on Thursday.

Facts not spin.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

Truth is something you can prove or put forth credible evidence of. I’ve tried cases in almost every jurisdiction in Louisiana conservative to liberal, in Texas, New Mexico, Florida, DC, Baltimore and California. Dont ever be fooled into thinking that juries just find for people they like or agree with politically. That’s only rhetoric from political folks. Mostly juries try to follow the evidence presented and make the right decision, mostly.

From the Financial Times,

What convinced Fox to throw in the towel at the last moment and agree one of the largest defamation awards in US history was not immediately apparent, even if legal experts seemed to concur that the company faced ever tougher odds the longer the case continued.

Some theorised that Fox realised the game was up when a jury that seemed to resemble the demographics of the district from which the members hailed — heavily Democratic, with a railway station named in President Joe Biden’s honour — was finally seated that day.

Other analysts went back a few days earlier, to when Judge Eric Davis, who was overseeing the case, warned Fox’s lawyers that they had a “credibility problem” after a dispute over disclosures to the court.

For Catherine Ross, law professor at George Washington University, it was largely over last month, when Davis departed from his usual dry prose to declare in a written opinion that it was “CRYSTAL clear” statements made by Fox about the alleged rigging of Dominion voting machines were false. The US Constitution’s free speech protections did not extend to telling lies, he added.

The judge “basically eviscerated all of Fox’s defences . . . they had just about nothing left”, Ross said. “Fox really had its feet to the fire.”

https://www.ft.com/content/3d1e6738-...0-ac8092c371b1

Judge Davis is a registered Democrat:

https://trellis.law/judge/eric.m.davis

So you had a Democratic Party judge who already made up his mind about the facts and a jury probably biased against Fox News.

I wonder if Fox would have settled for $788 million if this case were being heard in Amarillo, Texas?

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Tiny

According to a Wall Street Journal article today, the owner of Dominion paid $38 million for a 78% stake in Dominion in 2018. Sounds like it will pocket a bundle, way out of line with the actual damage to the company.

More from the FT,

In 2018, it (Staple Street, a private equity firm) invested $38mn to acquire a majority stake in Dominion at a $80mn valuation. (Tiny's Note: The valuation of 100% of Dominion with the debt probably was actually $49 million. The $80 million most likely was the value of the company plus Dominion's net debt.)

....In its defence, Fox planned to tell the jury that Trump’s allegation of election fraud “was about as newsworthy as you can possibly imagine”, a person familiar with their plans said, and characterise the case as a high-stakes proxy battle for press freedom in which it had fulfilled “its journalistic duty”.

Fox contended Dominion’s lawsuit was “a political crusade in search of a financial windfall” for the company and its “private equity owners”.At trial, it intended to argue that if there were any damages suffered by Dominion, they were “nowhere close” to $1.6bn, the person familiar said.

Indeed, Staple Street’s investment in Dominion was already a success as its court battle intensified. Filings with the Securities Exchange Commission show that Dominion’s value had roughly tripled between 2018 and 2021, growing profitable enough for Staple Street to repay more than $30mn in acquisition debt.

Court documents also show Staple Street had recovered much of its original investment through dividends Dominion paid its owners. An expert it hired valued Dominion not far from the near-$800mn settlement it ultimately received. (Tiny's note: The hired experts value probably was about as realistic as Trump's claim he was worth $10 billion.)

The proceeds from the settlement are essentially pure profit to Staple Street, which stands to make hundreds of millions of dollars. The cash will be distributed to Dominion’s owners including Staple Street, chief executive John Poulos, and some senior employees.

There was no separate provision for Fox to pay the company’s legal fees, so its recovery is likely to be substantially lower than $787.5mn, as plaintiffs’ lawyers on contingency contracts typically command about a third of the settlement sum. Corporate taxes must also be paid.

https://www.ft.com/content/5d4bfeb1-...e-0501373be4c6

So there you have it. The private equity firm and the plaintiffs' lawyers make off with hundreds of millions, multiples of the damage caused to Dominion. Is that what we want here in America? A massive channeling of cash from mainstream businesses to private equity and plaintiffs' lawyers?

Given that Dominion had tripled in value and paid off $30 million in debt by 2021, after the 2020 election, I question whether the company suffered substantial damage. Anybody with common sense knew the claim that the voting machines were rigged was bull shit.