HITLER SURVIVED THE WAR AND DIED IN 1970

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

No actually the controversy over Borman's supposed skull being found has nothing to do with the fact that the skull the Russians claim as THE ONLY EVIDENCE of Hitler's death in Berlin HAS TURNED OUT TO BE THAT OF A WOMAN. Above, you claimed that Borman also escaped. Borman's skeletal remains were identified using DNA in 1998.

If you are insisting that "Hitler's skull" isn't that of a woman than let's see some evidence Dude.

Hitler escaped because he had total contempt for everyone.

He viewed himself as being far above the German people, the idiots around him in the Nazi party, and everyone else.

Hitler only liked four people. He liked Albert Speer, Martin Borman, Eva Braun, and his dog. Blondie was a dog; not a person.

Hitler made his escape because he could, and he was smart enough to look after his own skin.

He was a survivor, and anyone who knows about his life knows that about him if they know anything.

He believed the ultimate obligation every person has is to survive.

You have not established that Hitler survived the war. Further, Hitler's meglomania is evident in his desire to see Germany destroyed because the German people did not match his ideals:

"In 1944-1945, as the war was approaching its end with a German defeat, Hitler had no more sympathy for the German people than he had had for the Jews and Slavs, whom he despised as subhumans. In July 1944, after the attempt on his life, Hitler had declared:

If the German nation is now defeated in this struggle, it has been too weak. That will mean it has not withstood the test of history and was destined for nothing but doom.

In March 1945, Hitler told Albert Speer, his minister of armaments and war production:

If the war is lost, the people will be lost also. It is not necessary to worry about what the German people will need for elemental survival. On the contrary, it is best for us to destroy even these things. For the nation has proven to be the weaker, and the future belongs solely to the stronger eastern nation [Russia]. In any case only those who are inferior will remain after this struggle, for the good have already been killed."

http://www.fff.org/freedom/0795f.asp

[TheDaliLama]

He's alive and he owns Horndogs.

[theaustinescorts]

Here's a story which embodies Hitler to a tee.....

One of the Wagner children, the grandchildren of the composer Wagner, was twelve years old and had left the Hitler Youth.

Hitler was a friend of the Wagners and asked the boy why he had left the Hitler Youth.

The boy said, "They are all a bunch of stupid idiots. They just want everyone to do and think the exact same way and I'm not like that. I'm better than they are."

Hitler replied,

"I understand exactly how you feel. I would have done the same thing,"


THAT SUMS UP HITLER

[theaustinescorts]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

You have not established that Hitler survived the war. Further, Hitler's meglomania is evident in his desire to see Germany destroyed because the German people did not match his ideals:

"In 1944-1945, as the war was approaching its end with a German defeat, Hitler had no more sympathy for the German people than he had had for the Jews and Slavs, whom he despised as subhumans. In July 1944, after the attempt on his life, Hitler had declared:

If the German nation is now defeated in this struggle, it has been too weak. That will mean it has not withstood the test of history and was destined for nothing but doom.

In March 1945, Hitler told Albert Speer, his minister of armaments and war production:

If the war is lost, the people will be lost also. It is not necessary to worry about what the German people will need for elemental survival. On the contrary, it is best for us to destroy even these things. For the nation has proven to be the weaker, and the future belongs solely to the stronger eastern nation [Russia]. In any case only those who are inferior will remain after this struggle, for the good have already been killed."

http://www.fff.org/freedom/0795f.asp

The quotes attributed to Hitler are bogus. They are US Army psch warfare produced. Also hoaxed by them were the "soap made out of human fat," and "human lampshades,etc"

Just look it up anywhere and you'll find all that stuff was hoaxed.

Yes I still believe that Borman escaped because there's credible testimony regarding such and it's well documented in CIA files that US Army intelligence and later CIA helped him escape.

I know there's a claim that some bones were tested and are Borman's but that is highly controversal.

What is not controversal is that the sole evidence of Hitler's death is now discredited.

Over the years there were other supposed evidences also such as testimony but peice by peice each and every one of those items has been discredited.

As for evidence of Hitler's survival I think clearly the burdon is on those who claim he died in Berlin because without any evidence of his death there he's presumed to not have died there, and therefore......

....must have been alive somewhere.

[CuteOldGuy]

Just a note to those that are up late. Coast to Coast am is interviewing an author who sounds like he supports tae's theory that Hitler survived the war. Should be an interesting program. I may listen tomorrow on the website.

[Yssup Rider]

False logic TAE. There's no evidence that Jesus rose from the grave either, so, he must be dead somewhere.

[I B Hankering]

"April 30, 2005 marked the 60th anniversary of Adolf Hitler's suicide. Eyewitness accounts, collected in a Security Service file, provide a fascinating insight into Hitler's final days in April 1945.

The accounts, summarised below, were made available to the historian, Hugh Trevor-Roper, who in 1947, published his best-selling account of the fall of the Third Reich, The Last Days of Hitler.

At the end of the Second World War various members of Hitler's personal staff, who had been with him in his Berlin bunker during the month of April 1945, were interrogated by Allied officers seeking to establish beyond possible doubt that Hitler had died.

Their questioning therefore concentrated on the events that took place in the Bunker during the last days of April. By then advancing Soviet armies surrounded Berlin and the sound of gunfire could be heard plainly from within the Führerbunker.

In the small hours of 28-29 April Hitler dictated his will, in the form of a political and personal testament, to Gertrud (also known as Traudl) Junge, who was one of his secretaries. Soon afterwards Hitler and Eva Braun were married. Accounts from two of the secretaries present recorded that they had been called together as Hitler and Eva emerged, with Göbbels, Frau Göbbels and Martin Bormann, from the map-room where the marriage ceremony had taken place. Turning to Hitler's personal secretary, Gerda Christian, Eva pointed to the wedding ring on her finger and received her congratulations.

A party followed to celebrate the occasion. According to Gerda, Hitler talked mostly of the past and of happier times. However, he did admit to her that he knew the war was lost, adding that he would never allow himself to be taken prisoner by the Russians but intended to shoot himself. He confided to Gertrud Junge that the wedding had been an emotional experience, but that for him death would only mean a personal redemption of his many worries and of what had been a very difficult life. Gerda, who was accustomed to joining Hitler and Eva for certain meals, was invited to the wedding breakfast after the ceremony, only to leave it early telling Gertrud that she had been unable to stand the atmosphere of gloom and despondency.

Preparations for death

On the morning of 29 April news of Mussolini's death at the hands of Italian partisans reached the Bunker. One of those interrogated recorded that this would have served to reinforce Hitler's order to his staff that this should not be his fate, or that of Eva Braun. One eyewitness noted that Hitler's SS bodyguards were destroying his personal papers. Elsewhere one of the doctors, on Hitler's instructions, poisoned Blondi, his Alsatian dog, a fate that Eva Braun's spaniel shared. Accounts also described how in the afternoon Hitler went from room to room in the Reichschancellery shaking hands with all but his immediate staff, saying a few words of encouragement and thanks to each.

By the morning of 30 April Russian forces had reached the nearby Potsdamer Platz and the sounds of battle were all around. One version on record suggests that Eva was overheard crying, "I would rather die here. I do not want to escape". She and Hitler later emerged from their suite, their personal staff having been assembled, and went round the room shaking hands silently. Everyone knew that the time had come.

Gertrud Junge recalled that she and Gerda both asked Hitler for a poison ampoule, having noted coolly the effect the poison had had on Hitler's dog. Hitler gave them one each, saying as he did so that he was sorry he had no better parting gift and that he wished his generals had been as poised and brave as they were. Eva embraced Gertrud and, in what seems to have been her last recorded words said, "Take my fur coat as a memory. I always like well-dressed women". Then, saying "It is finished, goodbye". Hitler took Eva back into their rooms for the last time. During the afternoon Hitler shot himself and Eva took the poison ampoule he had given her.

Soon afterwards their bodies were carried up the stairs to a small garden within the protection of the Bunker. Hitler's driver, another of those interrogated, helped carry Eva's body some of the way and noted that once there it was placed on the ground beside Hitler's. He told his interrogators he had noticed that she had been wearing a blue summer dress made of real silk, that her shoes had cork heels, and that her hair was "artificially blonde".

Moments later the same witness saw a party including Göbbels and Bormann gathered beside the bodies. One of them poured petrol from a can over the bodies. They then retired to the safety of a doorway with, as the guard described it, the sound of Russian artillery all around them. Hitler's adjutant lit a petrol-soaked rag and threw it on the bodies, which immediately burst into flames. The group gave the Nazi salute and withdrew.

One of the Bunker guards, arriving late on the scene and unable to see the Göbbels party concealed in a doorway, was greatly startled to see the two bodies burst into flames as if by spontaneous combustion, only later to be told the true circumstances." http://greyfalcon.us/restored/Endger.htm



Trevor-Roper's account is the authoritative account on Hitler's suicide. Speer's quote is in one of his books. Are you claiming the U.S. Army wrote and published Speer's books? The DNA evidence confirms Borman died in Berlin in April 1945.

[theaustinescorts]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

"April 30, 2005 marked the 60th anniversary of Adolf Hitler's suicide. Eyewitness accounts, collected in a Security Service file, provide a fascinating insight into Hitler's final days in April 1945.

The accounts, summarised below, were made available to the historian, Hugh Trevor-Roper, who in 1947, published his best-selling account of the fall of the Third Reich, The Last Days of Hitler.

At the end of the Second World War various members of Hitler's personal staff, who had been with him in his Berlin bunker during the month of April 1945, were interrogated by Allied officers seeking to establish beyond possible doubt that Hitler had died.

Their questioning therefore concentrated on the events that took place in the Bunker during the last days of April. By then advancing Soviet armies surrounded Berlin and the sound of gunfire could be heard plainly from within the Führerbunker.

In the small hours of 28-29 April Hitler dictated his will, in the form of a political and personal testament, to Gertrud (also known as Traudl) Junge, who was one of his secretaries. Soon afterwards Hitler and Eva Braun were married. Accounts from two of the secretaries present recorded that they had been called together as Hitler and Eva emerged, with Göbbels, Frau Göbbels and Martin Bormann, from the map-room where the marriage ceremony had taken place. Turning to Hitler's personal secretary, Gerda Christian, Eva pointed to the wedding ring on her finger and received her congratulations.

A party followed to celebrate the occasion. According to Gerda, Hitler talked mostly of the past and of happier times. However, he did admit to her that he knew the war was lost, adding that he would never allow himself to be taken prisoner by the Russians but intended to shoot himself. He confided to Gertrud Junge that the wedding had been an emotional experience, but that for him death would only mean a personal redemption of his many worries and of what had been a very difficult life. Gerda, who was accustomed to joining Hitler and Eva for certain meals, was invited to the wedding breakfast after the ceremony, only to leave it early telling Gertrud that she had been unable to stand the atmosphere of gloom and despondency.

Preparations for death

On the morning of 29 April news of Mussolini's death at the hands of Italian partisans reached the Bunker. One of those interrogated recorded that this would have served to reinforce Hitler's order to his staff that this should not be his fate, or that of Eva Braun. One eyewitness noted that Hitler's SS bodyguards were destroying his personal papers. Elsewhere one of the doctors, on Hitler's instructions, poisoned Blondi, his Alsatian dog, a fate that Eva Braun's spaniel shared. Accounts also described how in the afternoon Hitler went from room to room in the Reichschancellery shaking hands with all but his immediate staff, saying a few words of encouragement and thanks to each.

By the morning of 30 April Russian forces had reached the nearby Potsdamer Platz and the sounds of battle were all around. One version on record suggests that Eva was overheard crying, "I would rather die here. I do not want to escape". She and Hitler later emerged from their suite, their personal staff having been assembled, and went round the room shaking hands silently. Everyone knew that the time had come.

Gertrud Junge recalled that she and Gerda both asked Hitler for a poison ampoule, having noted coolly the effect the poison had had on Hitler's dog. Hitler gave them one each, saying as he did so that he was sorry he had no better parting gift and that he wished his generals had been as poised and brave as they were. Eva embraced Gertrud and, in what seems to have been her last recorded words said, "Take my fur coat as a memory. I always like well-dressed women". Then, saying "It is finished, goodbye". Hitler took Eva back into their rooms for the last time. During the afternoon Hitler shot himself and Eva took the poison ampoule he had given her.

Soon afterwards their bodies were carried up the stairs to a small garden within the protection of the Bunker. Hitler's driver, another of those interrogated, helped carry Eva's body some of the way and noted that once there it was placed on the ground beside Hitler's. He told his interrogators he had noticed that she had been wearing a blue summer dress made of real silk, that her shoes had cork heels, and that her hair was "artificially blonde".

Moments later the same witness saw a party including Göbbels and Bormann gathered beside the bodies. One of them poured petrol from a can over the bodies. They then retired to the safety of a doorway with, as the guard described it, the sound of Russian artillery all around them. Hitler's adjutant lit a petrol-soaked rag and threw it on the bodies, which immediately burst into flames. The group gave the Nazi salute and withdrew.

One of the Bunker guards, arriving late on the scene and unable to see the Göbbels party concealed in a doorway, was greatly startled to see the two bodies burst into flames as if by spontaneous combustion, only later to be told the true circumstances." http://greyfalcon.us/restored/Endger.htm



Trevor-Roper's account is the authoritative account on Hitler's suicide. Speer's quote is in one of his books. Are you claiming the U.S. Army wrote and published Speer's books? The DNA evidence confirms Borman died in Berlin in April 1945.

Trevor-Roper was a SIS officer and his account has been completely discredited. Trevor-Roper was also the dupe who claimed in the 1970s that he'd found the "Hitler Diaries," which were subsequently found to be forgeries. It was David Irving who first brought forward evidence that the "Hitler Diaries" were bogus, and now all historians totally agree.

On matters of this sort Hugh Trevor-Roper is not believed by an credible authority.

All historieans who have gone back to his primary sources agree that none of the sources say what Trevor-Roper claims.

The several eye-witness accounts actually all contradict each other and are obvious fabrications.

The Soviet archives show that the two witnesses that they questioned also gave wildly contradictory reports.

All these witnesses therefore are presumed to have been instructed by Hitler to have provided the cover story.

The Soviets tried for decades to make their account work, but since their evidence has now been proven a fabrication, particularly thier skull of Hitler, the whole story has dissolved.

Hitler and many others escaped because they could, and did, and because he was the cagiest person who ever lived and his ultimate priority was to himself and not any other living being.

He was a survivor who would never have sacrificed himself unnecessarily.

[theaustinescorts]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

False logic TAE. There's no evidence that Jesus rose from the grave either, so, he must be dead somewhere.

That's correct. And if you want to believe he rose from the dead out of faith that's alright, but faith is not what history is made of.

When it comes to the history of Hitler I'm talking about evidence, not faith.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

And if you want to believe he rose from the dead out of faith that's alright, but faith is not what history is made of.

When it comes to the history of Hitler I'm talking about evidence, not faith.

To believe that he "rose from the dead" one must first believe he "died" ...

... historically the state of scientific-medical knowledge was lacking at the time.

And I'm talking about Jesus, not Hitler.

There is no "proof" he rose from the dead, but there is no "proof" he was dead.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

Trevor-Roper was a SIS officer and his account has been completely discredited. Trevor-Roper was also the dupe who claimed in the 1970s that he'd found the "Hitler Diaries," which were subsequently found to be forgeries. It was David Irving who first brought forward evidence that the "Hitler Diaries" were bogus, and now all historians totally agree.

On matters of this sort Hugh Trevor-Roper is not believed by an credible authority.

All historieans who have gone back to his primary sources agree that none of the sources say what Trevor-Roper claims.

The several eye-witness accounts actually all contradict each other and are obvious fabrications.

The Soviet archives show that the two witnesses that they questioned also gave wildly contradictory reports.

All these witnesses therefore are presumed to have been instructed by Hitler to have provided the cover story.

The Soviets tried for decades to make their account work, but since their evidence has now been proven a fabrication, particularly thier skull of Hitler, the whole story has dissolved.

Hitler and many others escaped because they could, and did, and because he was the cagiest person who ever lived and his ultimate priority was to himself and not any other living being.

He was a survivor who would never have sacrificed himself unnecessarily.

"Trevor-Roper’s great work was The Last Days of Hitler (1947), which established the fact of Hitler’s suicide and recounted the hallucinogenic final days inside the bunker of the Reich Chancellery in April 1945. The slender but authoritative book grew out of an investigative report that Trevor-Roper prepared for British intelligence. The report was commissioned in September 1945, when no one knew for sure whether Hitler was alive or dead. His successor, Admiral Karl Donitz, insisted that he had fought to the last breath against the Soviet army; the Soviets claimed that he was alive and being harbored by the Allies. Rumors flared up like brushfires and were just as hard to stamp out. Hitler was said to be staying “on a mist-enshrouded island in the Baltic; in a Rhineland rock-fortress; in a Spanish monastery; on a South American ranch,” or “ living rough among the bandits of Albania.” The uncertainty compromised Allied security in occupied Germany and created tension between the Soviets and the British. The thousand-year Reich could not be pronounced dead if the Fuhrer was still alive.

As the former head of research for Allied intelligence, Trevor-Roper was just the man to find answers. He had extensive experience interrogating Nazi prisoners, spoke German, and knew his way around the country. Since—as it later emerged—Hitler’s body had been incinerated, Trevor-Roper could not establish physical evidence of his death. The next best thing was to find eyewitnesses to either his suicide or his corpse. Trevor-Roper traveled the countryside deducing who the occupants of the bunker were during the final days and interviewing those who were still alive. His most famous witness was the architect Albert Speer, who had defied Hitler by refusing to destroy German infrastructure as the Red Army approached Berlin. But Speer was not in the bunker when the end came, so Trevor-Roper also spoke with Hitler’s secretaries, butler, and physician, as well as guards of the Fuhrerbunker.

In this way Trevor-Roper not only proved Hitler’s death by suicide, he also gained an understanding of the last sputter and cough of Nazism."

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/mag...orro034616.php


"Trevor-Roper's most successful book emerged from his assignment as a British intelligence officer in 1945 to discover what happened in the last days of Hitler's bunker. From his interviews with a range of witnesses and study of surviving documents he demonstrated to the satisfaction of most analysts that Hitler was dead and had not escaped from Berlin. His book The Last Days of Hitler was a popular and critical success."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Trevor-Roper


TAE, it is your authors who are offering up bunk.

[theaustinescorts]

Why would you believe something written by a psychological warfare officer in 1947 when each and every acedemic and researcher who has looked into the substance of his writings has found it to be untrue?

My sources are every single historian and writer who has written anything on the subject.

Every one.

If you choose to believe in something written by the British government in 1947 instead of everything written by objective researchers since than be my guest, but I prefer to belief what the evidence and credible authors have concluded.

Trevor-Roper has been totally discredited, and the top of the issue was of course his idiotic endorsement of the "Hitler Diaries."

After his idiotic claim that those ridiculous papers were the diaries of Hitler, and after they were completely discredited through forensic examination, NO ONE ever believed anything Trevor-Roper ever wrote about the Nazis, or Hitler, or anything on the entire subject.

Trevor-Roper never appeared again in public after that affair.

Please find some other source IF YOU CAN.

NOW MORE TO THE POINT -------------

How do you explain away that "Hitler's skull" has turned out to be that of a woman? Tests performed in 2009.

What silly argument do you have to proffer to continue holding on to your fond ideas concerning that little fact?

[I B Hankering]

Alan Bullock in Hitler: A Study in Tyranny; John Toland in Adolph Hitler and Joachim Fest in Hitler all recite Trevor-Roper's account. Albert Speer's account complements Trevor-Roper's account. Wikipedia uses Trevor-Roper's account.

[essence]

All, every, no-one, never, always, nobody, totally, anything, every single,

TAE is beyond help, every statement where he uses those words can be demolished by finding one single minor exception.

I don't know why he so vigorously digs his own grave.

[theaustinescorts]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Alan Bullock in Hitler: A Study in Tyranny; John Toland in Adolph Hitler and Joachim Fest in Hitler all recite Trevor-Roper's account. Albert Speer's account complements Trevor-Roper's account. Wikipedia uses Trevor-Roper's account.

All those sources go back to the 1970s LOL LOL LOL

All those sources PREDATE the total disqualification of Trevor-Roper when he discovered "Hitler's Diaries!!!!!!" LOL

None of the authors you cite have since used Trevor-Roper for anything except toilet paper.

Try the 2009 testing of "Hitler's skull" Dude.....

What do you have to say about that?

Well?

2009?

This isn't 1975....

but more seriously none of those writers are real historians anyway and no real researcher or objective historian would publish anything with a title like, "A Study in Tyranny!!!!" Oh my God how EEEEEvil

John Toland is about as much of a researcher and investigator as my cat

Look, one way to spot a real work of history is if it's published by a University Press like Yale Press or MIT Press or University of Wisconsin Press or the kind.....

These popular books published by profit-making publishers are full of shit.