How are we going to pay for all this shit?

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by WTF

Well then maybe there shouldn't have been the huge Trump tax cut for the wealthy that were supposed to pay for themselves

I used to think that the Ryan/McConnell/Trump tax cuts would end up "depriving" the federal government of less than $1 trillion in revenues, because the Democrats would do away with the cuts earlier than when they were scheduled to sunset. But they've wisely decided to keep many of them. Nobody but an idiot would propose going back to a 35% federal rate on corporate income. The cuts played a part in close to record low unemployment and a record high increase in median household income in 2019, before COVID. So yeah, in my book they did pay for themselves.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by WTF

Those guys pay around 8% ...yet a bunch of poor people are crying for them.

I had no trouble with the wealth tax...other than it is just a drop in the ocean.

I haven't dug into the data, but I think the majority of those people in the top .01% of income in a particular year are mostly recognizing extraordinary capital gains. You work your butt off, become wealthy, and sell your business for example. So you have a huge income in one year. And you're taxed at 23.8% on that income because it's a long term capital gain. So you're paying at a lower rate than, say, the average for the top 1% or perhaps top 1% or 10%.

The 8% is fiction. It's a made up Democratic Party talking point. They take a person's tax paid and divide it by the increase in his net worth. By that logic, given that you're a buy and hold investor, and given your investments are performing extremely well right now, I suspect your tax rate might be 3% this year, pulling a number out of the air. You need to pony up and pay your fair share WTF. Maybe send some extra money to the government on April 15.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by WTF

Well then maybe there shouldn't have been the huge Trump tax cut for the wealthy that were supposed to pay for themselves

Originally Posted by Tiny

I used to think that the Ryan/McConnell/Trump tax cuts would end up "depriving" the federal government of less than $1 trillion in revenues...

Why don't you guys look this shit up?

Federal revenues in FY 2021 (which ended Sept. 30) were $4.05 trillion! That's a whopping 22% higher than they were in FY 2017, the last year before that "huge" tax cut took effect.

Doesn't look like anyone was "deprived" to me!


Boom Times in the Beltway

Federal revenue hits a record $4 trillion. Who needs a tax increase?

By The Editorial Board
Oct. 12, 2021 6:47 pm ET


Washington has had an excellent pandemic. If you doubt it, look no further than the Congressional Budget Office’s summary for revenues and outlays for fiscal 2021, which ended on Sept. 30. The federal government has never had it so good—literally.

The budget gnomes estimate that federal receipts rolled in at a record $4.05 trillion for the year, the first time annual revenues have exceeded $4 trillion. This is not a record to be proud of—like breaking the four-minute mile. Receipts rose 18%, or a remarkable $627 billion, in one year.

Nearly every revenue stream chipped in more, except for payroll taxes, which were flat. Individual income taxes rose $443 billion, or 27.5%, to reach $2.05 trillion. That’s about 9% of the entire U.S. economy. As CBO’s monthly budget summary dryly observes, “that increase most likely reflects higher total wages and salaries, particularly among the relatively high-income workers who are subject to higher tax rates on earnings.”

Translation: The rich had a good year, but they also paid a huge fiscal dividend in taxes. Question for President Biden : Does $2 trillion qualify as a “fair share”?

Corporate income taxes also rolled in at an astonishing rate, rising by 75% for the year, or $158 billion to $370 billion. That reflects robust corporate profits, but keep in mind this revenue boom came with the current 21% top corporate tax rate that passed with the GOP tax reform in 2017. Mr. Biden and Democrats keep telling Americans that corporations aren’t paying enough, even as the corporate tax boom gives them more money to spend.

Even the Federal Reserve contributed to the Beltway boom, increasing its remittances to the Treasury by 22%, or $18 billion, to $82 billion. That’s the money the Fed earns from its vast bond holdings, which have soared during the pandemic and continue to increase despite the economy’s rapid growth of the last year. This is another reason the political class doesn’t want the Fed’s “emergency” policies to end.

For readers who still care about budget deficits—and we don’t mean anyone in Congress—the revenue boom was swamped by another record spending increase. Outlays rose 4% in the fiscal year, or $265 billion, to $6.82 trillion. That’s 30% of GDP in federal spending alone. Some of that will ebb as pandemic emergency payments expire—that is, unless Democrats succeed in making them permanent or adding new benefits as part of Mr. Biden’s $5 trillion entitlement plan.

All of this raises the question: With tax revenues coming in like a gusher, and the economy slowing from supply-side shortages, why raise taxes at all? In particular, why raise tax rates when the current rates seem to be capturing the profits of companies and the income of individuals well enough?

There’s no fiscal or economic logic to it, so the likely answer is simply to punish Americans who make more than what Mr. Biden thinks is “fair.”

https://www.wsj.com/articles/boom-ti...ue-11634075748

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by eccieuser9500

You bet your lazy ass it is.

the truth grasshopper..

[oeb11]

Churchill was always eloquent
Thatcher was always teh "To the Point" Iron Lady!

[oeb11]

LL - thank you - Interesting Point

Why do the Democraticommunists want to raise taxes - their appetite for 'Tax and Spend" is Insatiable
It is what they do

Very much as the parable of teh snake and the Hippo it asked to carry the snake across teh driver.

Both died.

DemocratiCommunists - are a party of 'snakes"!

[nevergaveitathought]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Larry Summers, the dean of Democratic Party economists, said this was coming back when Democrats were passing the $1.9 million COVID stimulus bill with no Republican support earlier this year.

Now they're just throwing gasoline on the fire. Jim Cramer, who usually doesn't have much worthwhile to say, observed this morning that contractors are busy and they can't find workers right now. In other words, this is not the ideal time to be embarking on $1.2 trillion in infrastructure spending. It will cost the taxpayer more and fan the fires of inflation.

hear hear

chaos begets inflation

biden et all have begotten chaos

every aspect of American life is under assault by these people

from constant lying from impeaching with no reason other than hate from meddling in elections to treating americans as terrorists if they don't agree with them to suppression of truthful news stories and ignoring others to attacking American industry to trampling on freedoms to mask mandates that make no scientific sense to vaccine mandates at the penalty of losing your job that also makes no scientific sense, to the destruction of a legal border to all manner of assaults on common sense and not to even mention their sowing of racial division
to now our supply chain destruction

its all about power and control and destruction of America

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Tiny

I used to think that the Ryan/McConnell/Trump tax cuts would end up "depriving" the federal government of less than $1 trillion in revenues, because the Democrats would do away with the cuts earlier than when they were scheduled to sunset. But they've wisely decided to keep many of them. Nobody but an idiot would propose going back to a 35% federal rate on corporate income. The cuts played a part in close to record low unemployment and a record high increase in median household income in 2019, before COVID. So yeah, in my book they did pay for themselves.

That is why nobody is paying you to publish that book of yours!

And nobody said anything about going back to the old rates...so you can put that strawman back in the closet!

Unemployment continues on the same trajectory it was on before the tax cuts...please explain tjat.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Why don't you guys look this shit up?

Federal revenues in FY 2021 (which ended Sept. 30) were $4.05 trillion! That's a whopping 22% higher than they were in FY 2017, the last year before that "huge" tax cut took effect.

Doesn't look like anyone was "deprived" to me!


Boom Times in the Beltway

Federal revenue hits a record $4 trillion. Who needs a tax increase?

By The Editorial Board
Oct. 12, 2021 6:47 pm ET


Washington has had an excellent pandemic. If you doubt it, look no further than the Congressional Budget Office’s summary for revenues and outlays for fiscal 2021, which ended on Sept. 30. The federal government has never had it so good—literally.

The budget gnomes estimate that federal receipts rolled in at a record $4.05 trillion for the year, the first time annual revenues have exceeded $4 trillion. This is not a record to be proud of—like breaking the four-minute mile. Receipts rose 18%, or a remarkable $627 billion, in one year.

Nearly every revenue stream chipped in more, except for payroll taxes, which were flat. Individual income taxes rose $443 billion, or 27.5%, to reach $2.05 trillion. That’s about 9% of the entire U.S. economy. As CBO’s monthly budget summary dryly observes, “that increase most likely reflects higher total wages and salaries, particularly among the relatively high-income workers who are subject to higher tax rates on earnings.”

Translation: The rich had a good year, but they also paid a huge fiscal dividend in taxes. Question for President Biden : Does $2 trillion qualify as a “fair share”?

Corporate income taxes also rolled in at an astonishing rate, rising by 75% for the year, or $158 billion to $370 billion. That reflects robust corporate profits, but keep in mind this revenue boom came with the current 21% top corporate tax rate that passed with the GOP tax reform in 2017. Mr. Biden and Democrats keep telling Americans that corporations aren’t paying enough, even as the corporate tax boom gives them more money to spend.

Even the Federal Reserve contributed to the Beltway boom, increasing its remittances to the Treasury by 22%, or $18 billion, to $82 billion. That’s the money the Fed earns from its vast bond holdings, which have soared during the pandemic and continue to increase despite the economy’s rapid growth of the last year. This is another reason the political class doesn’t want the Fed’s “emergency” policies to end.

For readers who still care about budget deficits—and we don’t mean anyone in Congress—the revenue boom was swamped by another record spending increase. Outlays rose 4% in the fiscal year, or $265 billion, to $6.82 trillion. That’s 30% of GDP in federal spending alone. Some of that will ebb as pandemic emergency payments expire—that is, unless Democrats succeed in making them permanent or adding new benefits as part of Mr. Biden’s $5 trillion entitlement plan.

All of this raises the question: With tax revenues coming in like a gusher, and the economy slowing from supply-side shortages, why raise taxes at all? In particular, why raise tax rates when the current rates seem to be capturing the profits of companies and the income of individuals well enough?

There’s no fiscal or economic logic to it, so the likely answer is simply to punish Americans who make more than what Mr. Biden thinks is “fair.”

https://www.wsj.com/articles/boom-ti...ue-11634075748

Without replying to each point...there is something you need to understand. Revenues are up because of all the fucking free money that was dumped in the economy. That did not have a fucking thing to do with the 2017 tax cuts. Jesus.

Second...anyone with half a brain knows that 2021 was going to be a much much better.

And yes I've made on paper much much more than 18%!

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Why don't you guys look this shit up?


For readers who still care about budget deficits—and we don’t mean anyone in Congress—the revenue boom was swamped by another record spending increase. Outlays rose 4% in the fiscal year, or $265 billion, to $6.82 trillion. That’s 30% of GDP in federal spending alone. Some of that will ebb as pandemic emergency payments expire—that is, unless Democrats succeed in making them permanent or adding new benefits as part of Mr. Biden’s $5 trillion entitlement plan.

Hey, for what it's worth, I think depriving the federal government of revenues is a good thing.

In a typical year, total government spending, federal, state and local, is around 36% of GDP:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...united-states/

That's plenty IMO. Too much.

And worse yet, in a typical year federal government expenditures are 20% of GDP.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYONGDA188S

I don't begrudge the taxes I pay to my state and municipality. I see the results of my tax dollars. The federal government on the other hand, it must flush a huge amount of whatever we send to Washington D.C. down the toilet, because I sure as hell don't see benefits accruing to my family, neighbors or me commensurate with that level of spending, even taking into account that a lot of federal money goes to the states.

[Tiny]

Here's the text of what the House slapped together today, all 1684 pages of the proposed Build Back Better bill. I guess Sinema and Manchin are supposed to read this and commit to it this afternoon so the progressives will be comfortable voting for the infrastructure bill. Or better yet they all just need to pass this bill so they can find out what's in it.

https://rules.house.gov/sites/democr...-RCP117-17.pdf

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Tiny

I haven't dug into the data, but I think the majority of those people in the top .01% of income in a particular year are mostly recognizing extraordinary capital gains. You work your butt off, become wealthy, and sell your business for example. So you have a huge income in one year. And you're taxed at 23.8% on that income because it's a long term capital gain. So you're paying at a lower rate than, say, the average for the top 1% or perhaps top 1% or 10%.

The 8% is fiction. It's a made up Democratic Party talking point. They take a person's tax paid and divide it by the increase in his net worth. By that logic, given that you're a buy and hold investor, and given your investments are performing extremely well right now, I suspect your tax rate might be 3% this year, pulling a number out of the air. You need to pony up and pay your fair share WTF. Maybe send some extra money to the government on April 15.

8% ...made up?


https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/brief...e-of-just-8-2/

The analysis from OMB and CEA economists estimates that the wealthiest 400 billionaire families in America paid an average of just 8.2 percent of their income—including income from their wealth that goes largely untaxed—in Federal individual income taxes between 2010 and 2018. That’s a lower rate than many ordinary Americans pay.

[Jacuzzme]

The wealthy pay nearly everything. The almost wealthy pay the rest. A good half pay nothing at all and are the ones who vacuum up all the resources. What we need to do is tax the poor and reduce taxes on the rich, they’ve been carrying the slugs for too long already.

A flat tax where everyone pays a certain percentage of their income is the way to go. And none of this employer withholding bullshit, you save it up and write a check every quarter, like independent businesses have to. It’d last about six months and society’s leeches wold revolt when they had to put in THEIR money, and burn Washington to the ground. I’td be entertaining.

And taxes have nothing to do with revenue, they’re social engineering. Obonga fucked up and admitted as much.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

The wealthy pay nearly everything. The almost wealthy pay the rest. A good half pay nothing at all and are the ones who vacuum up all the resources. What we need to do is tax the poor and reduce taxes on the rich, they’ve been carrying the slugs for too long already.

You seem to have forgotten about regressive taxes

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by WTF

8% ...made up?


https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/brief...e-of-just-8-2/

The analysis from OMB and CEA economists estimates that the wealthiest 400 billionaire families in America paid an average of just 8.2 percent of their income—including income from their wealth that goes largely untaxed—in Federal individual income taxes between 2010 and 2018. That’s a lower rate than many ordinary Americans pay.

Absolutely made up, in exactly the way I described. See the link to the so-called "study" below.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/cea/blog/...est-americans/

Abstract: We estimate the average Federal individual income tax rate paid by America’s 400 wealthiest families, using a relatively comprehensive measure of their income that includes income from unsold stock.