Evolution? Intelligent Design? God did it all in 7 days?

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by Doove

So, no answer on why sending people to heaven at an early age should be considered evil?

You asked us four times to explain why murder is bad.

Perhaps we were ignoring you.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by ExNYer

You asked us four times to explain why murder is bad.

Perhaps we were ignoring you.

Apparently some points are over your head.

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by Doove

Apparently some points are over your head.

You had a point?

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by ExNYer

So I guess the 9-11 hijackers were right then? They certainly died for their beliefs. Are you going to become a Muslim now?

Back to you, Preacher Bo.

The 9-11 hijackers killed for their beliefs.

[bojulay]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

The 9-11 hijackers killed for their beliefs.

Yes, and the other big difference, Jesus disciples claims about him.
Remember they lived with the guy, they claimed that he rose from
the dead, ascended into heaven with a promise to return and
claimed to be eye witness to all of his miracles and these events.

Therefore they were ether telling the truth or lying, and if they
were lying, they were willing to die for that lie.

Who is it that would be willing to die for a known lie?
What purpose would it have possible served them?

We stole his dead body and hid it away and now we are going
to perpetuate the lie that he rose from the dead and ascended
into heaven, and not for any other reason than to be persecuted
and martyred for claiming it to be true.

I know of no other examples in recorded history that would
compare.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by ExNYer

You had a point?

Yes he has one, but he usually wears a cap, so most people have never seen it.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by bojulay

Yes, and the other big difference, Jesus disciples claims about him.
Remember they lived with the guy, they claimed that he rose from
the dead, ascended into heaven with a promise to return and
claimed to be eye witness to all of his miracles and these events.

Therefore they were ether telling the truth or lying, and if they
were lying, they were willing to die for that lie.

Who is it that would be willing to die for a known lie?
What purpose would it have possible served them?

We stole his dead body and hid it away and now we are going
to perpetuate the lie that he rose from the dead and ascended
into heaven, and not for any other reason than to be persecuted
and martyred for claiming it to be true.

I know of no other examples in recorded history that would
compare.

Sounds like a pretty convincing argument to me.

[CuteOldGuy]

Apparently, resurrection was not uncommon in the old days.

Also the Christian idea that the Saviour rose from the dead after three days or on the third day was borrowed from older religions in the eastern Mediterranean area. It was a widely spread conception that the gods were born at the winter solstice (at Christmas) and died in spring in connection with the vernal equinox (Easter). The people experienced a short period of grief, whereupon, on the third day or after three days, they rejoiced and celebrated the resurrected god.

The model for the Gospel view that Jesus rose on the third day existed as early as in the Egyptian cult of the god Osiris. Before Christianity entered the religious scene, the people of Egypt regarded Osiris as a god who suffered and died for humanity only to rise on the third day.[7]

Among other gods who were thought to have risen from the dead were Dionysus, Asclepius, Apollonius of Tyana, Heracles, Tammuz from Babylonia, Adonis of Phoenicia and Attis of Phrygia (who rose on the third day).

Since there are accounts preserved from the time before the advent of Christianity, and the archaeological finds indicate that these ideas existed earlier, it is reasonable to assume that the image the gospellers drew of Jesus is largely a modified copy of a very old conception.

One early apologist, Justin the Martyr (c. 150 CE), realized the embarrassing resemblance there was between the pagan and the Christian ideas. He solved this problem by simply claiming that the devil had imitated the prophecies about Jesus and spread them to the pagans in order to deceive the Christians.[8] However, the pagan conceptions are older than the Christian one. It was therefore an unprecedented exploit of the devil to imitate the Christian ideas to such perfection even before they appeared in Christianity.

Not to discount Jesus. I firmly believe he lived, and did and said much of what we have heard. I just don't think the Bible is the be all and end all of either Jesus or religion. The texts were selected by Constantine for his state religion. There are other sources of information out there, and paint a different person than the Jesus of the Bible. And I further refuse to believe that truth and revelation ended when Constantine designed the Bible. The Bible effectively ended Christianity, and started the worship of men for the glorification of the state.

http://www.jesusgranskad.se/jesus_parallels.htm

[joe bloe]

Just out of curiosity, do you consider yourself to be agnositic or atheist or what?

I was raised in the Baptist church; then I became an agnostic. Now I think I'm probably more of a Deist than anything else. It sort of depends on the day of the week.

Your link looks interesting. I'll try to read it when I have more time. I don't doubt that a lot of the Bible is very similar to other myths and legend that predate it.

[CuteOldGuy]

I don't know. A lot of time labels get you pigeonholed. I guess I'd consider myself a Christian mystic, but that really doesn't completely describe it. Maybe a New Thought practitioner. Taoist. I really don't adhere to any particular set of doctrine. It's a little late to get this deep.

[bojulay]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Apparently, resurrection was not uncommon in the old days.

Also the Christian idea that the Saviour rose from the dead after three days or on the third day was borrowed from older religions in the eastern Mediterranean area. It was a widely spread conception that the gods were born at the winter solstice (at Christmas) and died in spring in connection with the vernal equinox (Easter). The people experienced a short period of grief, whereupon, on the third day or after three days, they rejoiced and celebrated the resurrected god.

The model for the Gospel view that Jesus rose on the third day existed as early as in the Egyptian cult of the god Osiris. Before Christianity entered the religious scene, the people of Egypt regarded Osiris as a god who suffered and died for humanity only to rise on the third day.[7]

Among other gods who were thought to have risen from the dead were Dionysus, Asclepius, Apollonius of Tyana, Heracles, Tammuz from Babylonia, Adonis of Phoenicia and Attis of Phrygia (who rose on the third day).

Since there are accounts preserved from the time before the advent of Christianity, and the archaeological finds indicate that these ideas existed earlier, it is reasonable to assume that the image the gospellers drew of Jesus is largely a modified copy of a very old conception.

One early apologist, Justin the Martyr (c. 150 CE), realized the embarrassing resemblance there was between the pagan and the Christian ideas. He solved this problem by simply claiming that the devil had imitated the prophecies about Jesus and spread them to the pagans in order to deceive the Christians.[8] However, the pagan conceptions are older than the Christian one. It was therefore an unprecedented exploit of the devil to imitate the Christian ideas to such perfection even before they appeared in Christianity.

Not to discount Jesus. I firmly believe he lived, and did and said much of what we have heard. I just don't think the Bible is the be all and end all of either Jesus or religion. The texts were selected by Constantine for his state religion. There are other sources of information out there, and paint a different person than the Jesus of the Bible. And I further refuse to believe that truth and revelation ended when Constantine designed the Bible. The Bible effectively ended Christianity, and started the worship of men for the glorification of the state.

http://www.jesusgranskad.se/jesus_parallels.htm

Again, Jesus disciples were under the Jewish frame of reference,
the one looking for the promised Messiah, Christianity and it's beliefs
were well established before Constantine.

There are many similarities between many religions, proves nothing.

And again Jesus Disciples claimed to be eye witnesses to the events
they claimed to be true, to the point of being willing to die for it.

Peter asked to be hung upside down on the cross they were to crucify
him on, because he didn't feel worthy to die in the same manner as
Jesus.


If you ever wonder why so many were looking for the Jewish Messiah
at the time of Jesus, Danial's 70 weeks foretells of the time that
the messiah was suppose to appear over 400 years before Jesus.

When calculated to the day and hour, it is when Jesus rode into
Jerusalem on the donkey.

One Jewish scholar even pronounced a curse on anyone who reads
the text in Danial's prophecy and realizes that the the time has already
passed.

There is plenty on the internet about Danial's 70 weeks, do some
research for yourselves, I didn't take yall to raise.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by Doove

Apparently some points are over your head.

Originally Posted by ExNYer

You had a point?

See what i mean?

Originally Posted by joe bloe

Yes he has one, but he usually wears a cap, so most people have never seen it.

When you figure out how to explain away your clear logical dilemma, let us know.

[jbravo_123]

Originally Posted by JCM800

Rofl, just as plausible as anything else we've heard.

[CJohnny54]

ha

[WTF]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

Sounds like a pretty convincing argument to me.

It would....to you!