I don't understand the Republicans and Tea Party candidates

[shorty]

I say we nominate Charles to run for President. So Charles, who will you choose to be your running/play mate? What's going to be your qualifications for someone to win the Vice President nomination?

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by Iaintliein

If you're really interested I suggest you attend a meeting and actually listen to the people there. Then, you can share with them your ideas about how to shrink government without gaining the leadership of the government. I know I'd like to hear your proposal.

It is more complicated that just "shrinking the government." The act of "shrinking the government" hurts too many people. There are lots of people on programs that you disagree with that would be irreparably harmed if those programs were brought to a halt. OTOH, I know you would disagree with cutting the Defense budget substantially. Yet, we have the most sophisticated armed force in the world. IMHO, we could probably cut back on Defense and still remain top dog. I'm not talking about reducing personnel...that hurts families, too. I'm talking about contracts and contractors. Gates has done some of that, but not to the extent it should be.

Originally Posted by macdeft

I will give the Tea Party this, they actually get off their asses and DO something when they are unhappy rather than sitting around their desks, blogging and pissing and moaning about what a shitty job the government is doing.

I don't call protesting and breaking up town hall meetings "getting up off your ass and doing something." Making real change is really hard. Let them run for office and make the changes they want. Oh, yeah, they already did, and were the majority of the incoming Congressional class. What have they done? Tell me, 'cause I can't see much.

Originally Posted by shorty

I say we nominate Charles to run for President. So Charles, who will you choose to be your running/play mate? What's going to be your qualifications for someone to win the Vice President nomination?

If I get pledges of $500,000 I'll form the Exploratory Committee. I'll ask PJ to be Veep. Camille, Lauren & Carrie will be joint Social Secretaries.

[DFW5Traveler]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Your closed-minded, ad hominem dismissal of those you disagree with in no way validates your claim to intellectual ascendancy.

DING! DING! DING! +1 IB

Originally Posted by Doove

They also think the entire bible should be enacted into law via constitutional amendment......except the part about helping poor people.

LOL! more sterotyping!!! I am not a religious person and I am conservative. How does that fit into our idiotic statement?

Maybe you should read this...

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

If I get pledges of $500,000 I'll form the Exploratory Committee. I'll ask PJ to be Veep. Camille, Lauren & Carrie will be joint Social Secretaries.

May I be under one of the secretaries . . . er, ah, I mean one of the under secretaries?

[Doove]

First, anyone who says this:

Originally Posted by Houman

Most of us who identify with the Tea Party can in fact think for ourselves so before lumping us all into lazy stereotypes foist upon us by those who believe they know more than those of us that actually produce something of value for a living,

And this, all in the same post:

That's why they must continually resort to lazy stereotypical insults preached to them by the likes of Mathews, Krugman, Huffington et al.

...can't be taken seriously.

As summarized in this interesting article, Brooks found that “religious conservatives donate far more money than secular liberals to all sorts of charitable activities, irrespective of income.”

It might help if your link actually went to the article.

Of course there are lies, damn lies and statistics and one can make a poll say what one wants by carefully crafting the questions asked but this particular canard of liberals has been empirically shot down many a time.

Spare me the argument that conservatives believe in helping poor people, they just don't think Government should help poor people. I ain't buyin' it. Particularly given the fact that conservatives are all over the argument that Government should legislate morals.

For all the concern over the debt, even Republicans only want to cut aid to foreign countries, unemployment aid and health care assistance. In other words, assistance to poor people. Telling.

If you’re going to put down people who believe in the absurd notion that "We" shouldn't bind our heirs to the servitude of our debt as well as the ravages of inflation to satisfy our need to do what "We" "feel" is the right thing to do today in spite of running up more debt than the world has ever known, then please offer a rational suggestion of how to pay for it beyond the pabulum of "tax the rich".

Tax everybody. But start with the rich.

Read some Ayn Rand and see if life today may not be imitating art of forty odd years ago.

Great idea. About as great an idea as determining my religious views by watching The Sixth Sense.

The Tea Party movement was and is about the fiscal cliff "We" are hanging over.

Anyone in the Tea Party has zero credibility if they voted for George Bush. And anyone in the Tea Party has zero credibility if their solutions don't begin with taking a chain saw to the defense budget, i don't give a rat's ass how much they claim to know about finance.

We have only to look abroad to socialist leaning countries to see today what Margret Thatcher saw so clearly so many years ago when she proclaimed "The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."

Given how rich the rich people in this country continue to get, this bumper sticker line is nothing short of laughable.

So, and in the immortal words of Denis Miller at the close of one of his infamous rants, "Of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong". But the Tea Party is not and that certain knowledge is what really pisses intelligent liberals off. That's why they must continually resort to lazy stereotypical insults preached to them by the likes of Mathews, Krugman, Huffington et al.

No, what pisses intelligent liberals off is that this Republican concern over the debt only seems to rear it's ugly head when a Democrat is in the Oval Office. You quote Margaret Thatcher and Dennis Miller, i'll quote Dick Cheney: "Deficits don't matter". And let me paraphrase what Dick Cheney really meant when he said that: "Deficits don't matter when a Republican is in Office". And i forget, did they get re-elected before or after he was known to have said that? And did you vote for him?

Originally Posted by JONBALLS

Cmon , youve even acknowledged in the past we could fix problems by just eliminating fraud.

Not sure when it was i said that. Perhaps you can fill in the blanks.

Theres plenty of money collected in NYS.

Why do you keep arguing NYS? I've rarely (if ever) defended NYS policies here.

They seem to have enough money to install the electronic road signs that display moronic messages,what ever happened to conserving electricity?plenty of cash to install red light cameras and "crime cams" on every other street corner.

And if you do insist on arguing NYS, please limit your arguments to items that aren't quite so petty.

Cmon DOOVE...how bout BARE BARE"S ONE BILLION DOLLARS , just to try and get re -elected, if hes doing such a grand job, why so much needed?

Well, if we were to calculate the value of all those 3 hour infomercials (Limbaugh, Hannity, Ingraham, Beck, O'Reilly, etc etc etc) 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year spreading lies and nonsense about Obama and his policies, i bet we'd find that a billion dollars doesn't come close to what's being spent to bring him down.

why cant some of that be funneled to whoever you consider poor?and anyone that says our savior isnt living like a king up there while people are scrambling is being patently dishonest. Where the HELL!! does all the lottery money go ??!LOL!! seriously, I dont know, but would like too if anyone can answer that..

This is just nonsense. And it also shows just how petty you are either willing to get, or need to get, to criticize Obama.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by Doove

They're not against big government, that's just a ruse. What they're against is paying for it.

Originally Posted by JONBALLS

What isnt getting funded?

Really? We have a yearly deficit that's over a trillion dollars, and you ask what isn't getting funded?

[John Bull]

From Charles the Great:OTOH, I know you would disagree with cutting the Defense budget substantially.

Where did you get that idea, Charles? From Barney Frank?

[John Bull]

Another from Charles: Oh, yeah, they already did, and were the majority of the incoming Congressional class. What have they done? Tell me, 'cause I can't see much.

Well Charles, it's a bit hard when the Tea Party officeholders don't control the House, Senate or WH. But, we're working on it my friend, we're working on it!

[Houman]

Doove,

It's about the math.

How, pray tell, do we pay for the socialist-litish agenda recently enacted (including the Bush expansion of Medicare)? We're looking at a more than $200,000 in debt per US citizen before tomorrow's interest is accrued (not including off the CBO books debt some in the know estimate to be almost as much). I'm all for a free lunch, I've just never enjoyed one.

The Tea Party spontaneously combusted as a result of those with a lick of sense who actually make things for a living not buying arguments like "debt doesn't matter" made by those without a lick of sense, Republican and Democrat alike who pontificate for a living. Debt most certainly does make a difference. Again it's about the math. If you don't believe so continue to elect those that don't worry about it either, wait about two to three years and reap the rewards.

It would be wonderful for everyone to be taken care of cradle to grave without having to struggle and endure pain. Show me one example in the history of mankind where it has been tried and worked. It's about the math.

You cited conservative blowhards so I cited liberal blowhards. Both are blowhards. At least the conservative blowhards seem to have awakened to the math.

By the way it's about the math.

[Jdriller]

I had a dream once. If I work hard, and smart, get an education I could make a lot of money and live the good life. Little did I know that my taxes would be 35% or so for income tax, almost 13% more for self employment tax, plus probably 25% more for real estate taxes on my properties and home. Add it up, that’s about 75% of my income that goes to the tax man. So if I make 275,000 before taxes, about 206,000 goes for taxes and leaves me about 70,00.00 spendable money. 75.00 out of every 100.00 I earn goes to some form of tax payment. The so called rich do pay 85% of the taxes paid to the IRS each year.
Imagine…..if you could keep 85% of what you make. You could expand your business, hire more people, buy new equipment, splurge and buy a newer, nicer car. Save money for your old age or to leave to your kids (although if Obama and the Demos get their way the money you saved but already paid taxes on, the investments you made but already paid taxes on will be taxed via the Estate tax at 80%, so they (the kids) end up with next to nothing from the life time you spend building a nest egg for your family) If you could expand your business, hire more people, buy lots of things then the economy would rebound, jobs would be created, factories would make stuff and they would hire more people.
I own a business. In the process I support via a payroll 16 employees. I also help out a half dozen or so friends and people I know on a regular basis when times get tough for them. I hire several people to repair and maintain my rental properties. All in all I probably help support more than 25 other people.
I don’t mind my taxes helping people in need or in trouble for awhile until they get back on their feet. But I do mind supporting them for the rest of their lives, and their kids grow up expecting the government to support them too. People get fired, lose their homes and can’t get on housing because there are 10,000 on the waiting list and they don’t have anything for more than 2 years. Those people need help now, not two years from now. But the people that got there first have it all tied up and stay on the program for years and years I don’t know the answers. Maybe time limits for welfare for able bodied healthy people (not the disabled though). Maybe we should not build million dollar elementary school buildings. Maybe there are too many administrators in the schools systems compared to teachers. Maybe we should not spend over $100,000 to change the signs on Delarosa Street (especially when 75% of the people don’t want the name change). How many billions of dollars go to support people in this country illegally. How many billions of dollars are wasted supporting wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and now Libya . How many roads could be built, how many student grants could be made with all the wasted tax dollars. How many tax dollars are wasted subsidizing ethanol made from corn, thus creating a food shortage worldwide, just to make a fuel that is 25% less efficient than gasoline while giving tax credits to people to buy cars they would not otherwise buy. (let the market determine what people want to buy when it comes to cars and lots of other things). Why should companies that take their factories to China, or Mexico get tax breaks for those investments. I think they should disallow tax breaks, if they are made to build factories overseas and give more breaks for expanding here in this country. If you want to stimulate the country (1) do not raise taxes, lower them (2) reduce waste where ever you can (3) eliminate tax breaks for investments made overseas and raise them for investments made in the USA (4) expand our domestic oil production….we can produce enough to be free of foreign oil (5) stop the inflex of illegal immigrants by catching them and sending them back, by going after the companies that pay them low wages under the table (fine the shit out of them, send some management to jail, make it unwise to hire illegals) (6) get rid of socialized medicine and Obamacare….it is wasteful, unhealthy and not needed (maybe a group of PPO plans, bid out by the insurance companies with pre existing conditions accepted without more than a 10% surcharge, and available to everyone at a group rate would work better) There is a lot right with this country, but there is a lot going wrong too. 3 years after Bush unemployment is still about 9% (if you count the people still trying to get a job and closer to 16% if you count the ones who have given up). Factory orders are down or sluggish, salaries are frozen or reduced for those who are lucky enough to have a job. History tells us eventually the economy will rebound and good times will return, probably in spite of what the politicians do.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by Houman

Doove,

It's about the math.

It's not always about the math. There is always a human element when dealing with human beings. We just disagree on how to treat that human element.

For instance, we could have saved a ton of money if we had paid each Katrina disaster victim the government cap of about $30,000 per person, and just walked away from all the rest of the programs. No housing. No trailers or mobile homes. No disaster food stamps. No rental resources for those displaced. No shelters for those without housing. Nothing. Nothing!! Just send them the cash and let them try and survive. Those that lost all would be required to rebuild and repair with $30k. Whether or not the house was worth $30K or $300k. And remember, most people didn't have flood insurance, and homeowners doesn't pay floods or rising water, which is what a storm surge is. We could save literally billions and billions of dollars.

But at what cost. There is a human price to pay when we "just do the math."

[JONBALLS]

Originally Posted by Doove

Not sure when it was i said that. Perhaps you can fill in the blanks.

OOOOhhh GOD!!LOL.. please dont make me navigate all the way back, but it was back in february?.. a thread about human trafficing and people were complaining that no one cares and wasnt doing enough, I suggested eliminating just a fraction of the fraud from medicare alone and there would be plenty of money to aggressively go after the problem..its there, dont worry, let me know, Ill find it , just wont know how to quote it to get it here!!LOL!..

[JONBALLS]

Originally Posted by Doove

Really? We have a yearly deficit that's over a trillion dollars, and you ask what isn't getting funded?

Yah, their printing money and everything is funded..whats the problem?

[JONBALLS]

Originally Posted by Doove

Why do you keep arguing NYS? I've rarely (if ever) defended NYS policies here.
.

NYS is the POSTER CHILD for liberal policies run amuck..I live here for the better part of 40 yrs, I live and breathe man...I live and breathe. New York throws more money at social programs than anywhere in the US and the results are nothing less than pitifull. It doesnt work DOOVE, politicians are politicians, people are people, doesnt matter where you go and these are all the types of social programs you claim you want for all. My views arent formed from any television program, I just look around me , everyday, its not hard to figure out. That Rush, Hannidy..yada yada shit dont fly with me..I work, live, experience it all.Do I relate to their views, absolutly.You assume Im rich, i live within my means, was taught that from my FAMILY, not some GOVERNMENT PROGRAM.When are you going to answer my question, which is, define what being poor in America is,? who is the poor,? and what constitutes being poor?not having a cell phone?the "poor" is just a talking point, and, a class of people that get abused and used by libs to advance an anti capitalism ideology.Its extremely transparent, immoral , tired , old and sickening.

[JONBALLS]

Originally Posted by Doove

Why do you keep arguing NYS? I've rarely (if ever) defended NYS policies here.

And if you do insist on arguing NYS, please limit your arguments to items that aren't quite so petty.
.

well, If I can drive around during my day and observe fraud and waste, thats just being observant, and those are just a few examples. .I dont go home at night and watch TV for my views, you just have to observe and its as easy as driving around and squinting your eyes, just a little.Like, all the traffic you run into, all those cars,evey single one...what kind of redundant taxes and fees are associated with just one car, over that cars life, through out all the transactions? those fees alone in the aggregate are staggoring.Money is not the problem, more money will not solve it.