Those voices don't speak for the rest of us..

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by blowpop

I don't think "knowing better" is the issue at all.

I agree, it is not the issue. "The issue" is that liberals THINK they know better .... it is painfully obvious today for millions that they do not.

Unemployment is still above 9% and holding.

And now we have liberals defining ... "what is in the public's interest"!

It was not in my child's "interest" .. nor "the public's"... that I hand my child a fat wad of money each week so she did not have to work.....nor was it in my child's interest that my child have a big fat "trust" awaiting the 18th birthday so my child did not have to work as an adult.

It was, and is, in my child's interest ... and the public's .... that he/she knows how to get a job, how to keep a job, and how to take care of the money earned from that job so that my child can SURVIVE, and perhaps do a little better than "survive" throughout life ... WITHOUT BEING dependent on me ... and therefore ...... under my CONTROL.

Of course, if I want to be the "great" parent and focal point of my child's existence ... then the dependency is better for me!

[lizardking]

How are so many blind to the lies of the right? Obviously, if you say something loud enough and long enough, people will believe it, regardless of how patently false it is. The right advocates small government and less spending, but under almost every Republican regime over the past 50 years, have spending and "government" grown or diminished? In the past 10 years, the polarization of wealth in this country has accelerated at an alarming pace. Nonetheless, the right has been unbelievably successful in selling the middle class (or what's left of it) on the preposterous idea that it is threatened "from below" by lazy poor people. What utter bullshit! When this country priced itself out of the manufacturing business (and certainly forces on the left, particularly unions, contributed to this), financial services became our principal industry. That business prospers on the backs of debt slaves. Have you ever seen one? You will likely find one in your mirror! "Reallocation of wealth" is a uniformly upward - and torrential - flow in this country. The fact that so many wage-earners are willing to go to the mat for policies that benefit only the super-wealthy is amazing.

The role of the "religious right" is of particular interest. Long ago, Republican strategists identified them as the most ignorant and malleable segment of the population that was likely to vote. By paying lip-service to things that most sophisticated Republicans don't really give a flying fuck about, like gay marriage and abortion, they were able to buy votes with little political capital invested. Open your fucking eyes!

What's the big fucking deal with health care? Why are folks so concerned about protecting the "rake" collected by health insurance companies? Health insurance is a drain on the resources of this country. Health insurance companies are parasites that bring nothing to the table. They get in between you and your doctor and try to fuck both of you. We should have open competition in medical services that should result in reasonable prices for routine medical services. And we should have public "insurance" for catastrophic medical situations.

[boardman]

Originally Posted by lizardking

We should have open competition in medical services that should result in reasonable prices for routine medical services.

Now there's a thought.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by lizardking

How are so many blind to the lies of the right?

The role of the "religious right" is of particular interest.

What's the big fucking deal with health care?

We should have open competition in medical services that should result in reasonable prices for routine medical services. And we should have public "insurance" for catastrophic medical situations.

When the "left" gets off the "message" that "Obamacare" is about improving the costs and benefits in our health care industry for the "little guy" ... then there will no doubt be a meaningful dialogue and agreement that will make quality health care available for everyone at a reasonable cost. Demonizing insurance companies is not an answer.

The Social Security Administratin utilizes the cost/charge information provided by the AMA to set rates, and the AMA manipulates the cost/charge information through artificial increases in cost/charges to assure an increase in benefit payments from the government, which is a "floor" for carriers to establish benefit payments. Health care providers must contract with a carrier to assure payment and when doing so must agree to the carrier's benefit payment rates. The same with medicare/medicaid benefit payment rates ... the providers must agree to the rates, which is why many are discontinuing medicare/medicaid practice.

Rather than play some stupid game about "charging" twice as much so the provider can get a "reasonable" amount after the carrier discounts the bill AND setting rates based on insured vs. cash (self-insured) patients, the health care providers need to establish reasonable rates across the board.

The problem is that most all politicians, including the current President, do not have the balls to take on the AMA and the health care providers generally ... instead, like the unions, they'd rather "support them" with the taxpayers' dollars ........ but .... the health care providers bill $300 for lab work locally and only get $50..... to which they had already agreed.

Speaking of the current President, ...

.. know any physicians that make less than $250,000 a year?

[lizardking]

LL,

I essentially agree with you (except for the part about demonizing insurance companies, which are largely responsible about the pricing game you describe).

And I do know quite a few doctors. Of course, there are ne'er do wells in every group, but I don't know too many that make less than $500K annually, and a good percentage of those I know make well over $1mm.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by lizardking

... except for the part about demonizing insurance companies, which are largely responsible about the pricing game you describe...

And I do know quite a few doctors.... .a good percentage of those I know make well over $1mm.

First, the $500,000 to "well over $1mm" is my observation as well ....

So..........you think insurance companies are responsible for doctors making so much more than other professionals?

Most physicians charge in billable units .. there are 12 units per hour ...

... 5 minutes with the physician = $200 billable time x 12 = $2,400 an hour....so on a five day work week for 48 weeks (one month in Europe) in the year ... an annual gross income of around $4.5 million.

[blowpop]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

I agree, it is not the issue. "The issue" is that liberals THINK they know better .... it is painfully obvious today for millions that they do not.

Those on both ends of the political extremes think they know what's best for us. On the liberal side, they wrap their arguments in emotion and logic. On the conservative side, it's wrapped in the flag and in religion.

I do think that at least some of the folks honestly do think they're doing what's best. But I think most of them are trying to set an agenda that's best for themselves, and by extension those who will vote for them.

[blowpop]

Originally Posted by lizardking

How are so many blind to the lies of the right? Obviously, if you say something loud enough and long enough, people will believe it, regardless of how patently false it is. The right advocates small government and less spending, but under almost every Republican regime over the past 50 years, have spending and "government" grown or diminished? In the past 10 years, the polarization of wealth in this country has accelerated at an alarming pace. Nonetheless, the right has been unbelievably successful in selling the middle class (or what's left of it) on the preposterous idea that it is threatened "from below" by lazy poor people. What utter bullshit!

As someone who was a Republican voter for years, I can't fault this statement at all. The GOP used to be the party of small government. But it became the party of big government, as long as Big Government is doing things that align with its interests: Keep the oil flowing. Codify Christian belief and teachings into law. Discriminate against those funny brown people. Let's not give handouts to the poor... but let's give 'em to corporations.

It's shameful. At least the Democrats are somewhat honest in their agenda and their motivations. And if I'm going to foot the bill for a handout, I'd rather it be to a poor person than a corporate executive.

I'm hoping that someday the GOP will get back to its roots. And no, the Tea Party isn't what I'm talking about.

[blowpop]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

So..........you think insurance companies are responsible for doctors making so much more than other professionals?

I'd be willing to bet that the highest paid professionals in the US are lawyers, not doctors.