Traffic Court 101?

[ShysterJon]

Originally Posted by The Eternal Bachelor

I knew the traffic fine and the increase in insurance rates I would have had to pay out would be far more than the cost I put in fighting it so it was an easy decision for me to fight the ticket.

Well, I wouldn't recommend your approach, unless someone has a lot of free time on their hands. Like I said earlier, in Texas a driver 25 years of age or older doesn't have to take a driving safety course to get a ticket dismissed. So if someone asks me how to handle a speeding ticket, I tell them to go to court, ask for a brief period of deferred adjudication community supervision (a/k/a probation), and haggle on the fine. The deferred period is usually 30 to 90 days. At the end of the period, the ticket is dismissed.

You do this and you have no conviction on your driving record, just like an acquittal after a trial. Your insurance premiums don't go up. My approach beats yours in two ways: 1. it's quick and easy, and 2. it's CERTAIN. There was no guarantee you'd be found not guilty.

[The Eternal Bachelor]

Originally Posted by ShysterJon

Well, I wouldn't recommend your approach, unless someone has a lot of free time on their hands. Like I said earlier, in Texas a driver 25 years of age or older doesn't have to take a driving safety course to get a ticket dismissed. So if someone asks me how to handle a speeding ticket, I tell them to go to court, ask for a brief period of deferred adjudication community supervision (a/k/a probation), and haggle on the fine. The deferred period is usually 30 to 90 days. At the end of the period, the ticket is dismissed.

You do this and you have no conviction on your driving record, just like an acquittal after a trial. Your insurance premiums don't go up. My approach beats yours in two ways: 1. it's quick and easy, and 2. it's CERTAIN. There was no guarantee you'd be found not guilty.

You make some good points, but if I do not deserve a ticket I'm not about to agree to probation or pay a reduced fine. I'll fight it everytime. Also, although I had no guarantee I would win, my gut told me that I would win.

For me at the time, my way beats yours in these ways:

1. I avoided paying attorney's fees, bogus increased insurance rates and a bogus fine,

2. I had the satisfaction of fighting and winning in court; that is priceless in my book, and

3. I gained the confidence that I can fight and win again in a similar case; that is also priceless in my book. The old saying "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime," comes to mind.

Of course, this legal matter was relatively trivial and not life-changing in the grand scheme of things. I certainly wouldn't try my way on a complicated and life or death legal matter such as a murder charge.

I'd do the smart thing and hire ShysterJon

[Runnerlink]

Most likely the cop will NOT show up. I have gotten out of 3 tickets that way. Depending on where you got it, the municipality will not pay the overtime for the cop to appear at a court over a ticket.

[Jimmiwad]

You have way to much time on your hands. Pay the ticket and forget it, I know if I was on the jury as some one already wrote I would find you guilty for involving me.

[The Eternal Bachelor]

Originally Posted by Jimmiwad

You have way to much time on your hands...

Says the guy with 709 posts on a hooker board...

[Dartswinger]

I am no lawyer, but I know how to write a traffic ticket. Once my son got a ticket from a female officer for failure to dim his fog lights. His car manual clearly stated that the car's fog lights will only turn on when the high beams are on dimmed. I pointed that out to the city attorney that the females written citation was evidence that his lights were dimmed. The city attorney said he would not dismiss the ticket because he had to hear the officers side. I pointed out that the copy of the ticket was the officers written testimony. He said that it didn't matter. We went to trial. The municipal judge called the case. I asked if I could be a technical witness for my son the judge said yes and asked me what my evidence was. I handed the court the car owners manual and the Texas traffic code. I pointed out the wording of the code about failure to dim a vehicles "high beam" and the owners manual about how to operate the vehicles fog lamps. After the city attorney spent 10 minutes reading the manual and the traffic code the judge pointedly asked him what he wanted to do. The city attorney mumbled "I guess we will ask for a dismissal." The judge pointedly asked the city attorney if that is what he really wanted. He mumbled "yes". The judge then dismissed the ticket. The female cop beat feet outta the court room. The judge then made the comment that some people should learn how to read before they show up in his court.
It's not rocket science, but cops should not write anything on a traffic ticket that invalidates the charge they are making.

[playerplano]

I have used deferred adjudication several times and also been to traffic school to have a ticket dismissed. I'm a guilty bastard so I don't think I ever got a ticket I didn't earn LOL. The probation or driving school routes aren't free but they are sure things so I would recommend take the easy out and move on. Hell you might even learn something in traffic school. I did comedy driving school and the guy was really funny.

As far as counting on the cop not showing up that might be true in big cities like Dallas but in places like plano they show up almost every time .

I love the quote "A man who represents himself in court has a fool for a client ! "

[The Eternal Bachelor]

Another reason to fight traffict tickets everytime are the traffic ticket quotas imposed on police officers. I've had 4 police officer over the years tell me that they were required to write a certain amount of tickets or they would get reprimanded and would get passed over for higher positions.

It is also no secret that cities are using traffic tickets as a revenue source with traffic safety a distant afterthought.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2009/02...evenue-source/

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/speed-tr...rapped-cities/

https://scottystarnes.wordpress.com/...ts-as-revenue/

http://www.scpolicycouncil.org/resea...police-revenue

[ShysterJon]

Ticket quotas are barred by law in Texas:

TEXAS TRANSPORTATION CODE, Sec. 720.002. PROHIBITION ON TRAFFIC-OFFENSE QUOTAS.
(a) A political subdivision or an agency of this state may not establish or maintain, formally or informally, a plan to evaluate, promote, compensate, or discipline:
1) a peace officer according to the officer's issuance of a predetermined or specified number of any type or combination of types of traffic citations; or
(2) a justice of the peace or a judge of a county court, statutory county court, municipal court, or municipal court of record according to the amount of money the justice or judge collects from persons convicted of a traffic offense.
(b) A political subdivision or an agency of this state may not require or suggest to a peace officer, a justice of the peace, or a judge of a county court, statutory county court, municipal court, or municipal court of record:
(1) that the peace officer is required or expected to issue a predetermined or specified number of any type or combination of types of traffic citations within a specified period; or
(2) that the justice or judge is required or expected to collect a predetermined amount of money from persons convicted of a traffic offense within a specified period.
(c) Repealed by Acts 2009, 81st Leg., R.S., Ch. 737, Sec. 1, eff. June 19, 2009.
(d) This section does not prohibit a municipality from obtaining budgetary information from a municipal court or a municipal court of record, including an estimate of the amount of money the court anticipates will be collected in a budget year.
(e) A violation of this section by an elected official is misconduct and a ground for removal from office. A violation of this section by a person who is not an elected official is a ground for removal from the person's position.
(f) In this section:
(1) "Conviction" means the rendition of an order by a court imposing a punishment of incarceration or a fine.
(2) "Traffic offense" means an offense under:
(A) Chapter 521; or
(B) Subtitle C.

See Texas Transportation Code, section 720.002.

I'm not saying ticket quotas don't exist -- I'm saying only that they're illegal.

To combat speed traps, the state legislature has placed caps on the percentage of revenue a city can derive from tickets, and, for certain offenses, part of the fines cities collect is sent to the state.

[frenchlouie1986]

I am sure I am going to be flamed for this response because I do not proclaim to be an attorney nor do I proclaim to play one on the internet, but here goes. There is no state offense for failing to stop upon entering a highway from a driveway and it should not be an offense unless it is a municipal ordinance somewhere and usually municipal ordinances have to be publicly posted where applicable such as the case with intersections which ban right turns on red or u-turns. All the state code says is the vehicle shall yield the right-of-way upon entering a highway or street which basically means enter the highway when you will not cause other vehicles to deviate from their path of travel.

TRANSPORTATION CODE
TITLE 7. VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC
SUBTITLE C. RULES OF THE ROAD
CHAPTER 545. OPERATION AND MOVEMENT OF VEHICLES
SUBCHAPTER D. RIGHT-OF-WAY

Sec. 545.155. VEHICLE ENTERING HIGHWAY FROM PRIVATE ROAD OR DRIVEWAY. An operator about to enter or cross a highway from an alley, building, or private road or driveway shall yield the right-of-way to a vehicle approaching on the highway to be entered.

If you are going to go the deferred disposition route then you should check with the court to get their deferred disposition requirements because each court is different. Austin requires all drivers and Dallas requires drivers under age 25 to complete a driver safety course while Plano may require a driver safety course for drivers under age 25 and Houston does not require a driver safety course for deferred disposition. But most courts will deny deferred disposition if the offense is serious enough such as 25 mph over, passing a school bus, or construction zone, so it never hurts to ask what the court will forgive.

http://dallascityhall.com/department....aspx#deferred

http://www.houstontx.gov/courts/HowD...sposition.html

http://www.austintexas.gov/departmen...-disposition-0

https://www.plano.gov/372/Deferred-Disposition

This is not to be construed as legal advice just information posted to a discussion board by someone from the internet. All information is subject to the due diligence of the user, so in other words do not take my word for it; look it up yourself. I have provided all the pertinent sources for people to validate the information presented. Any legal decisions should be based on the advice given by an attorney in the real world and not on the internet.

[ShysterJon]

Originally Posted by frenchlouie1986

...Plano may require a driver safety course for drivers under age 25 and Houston does not require a driver safety course for deferred disposition.

The requirement that a driver younger than 25 years of age take a driving safety course to get a deferred probation dismissal of a moving violation charge is mandatory, not discretionary:

"If the defendant is younger than 25 years of age, this article applies to any alleged offense that:
(1) is within the jurisdiction of a justice court or a municipal court;
(2) involves the operation of a motor vehicle; and
(3) is classified as a moving violation."

See Texas Code of Criminal Procedure, article 45.0511(a-1) (emphasis added).

[frenchlouie1986]

I am not arguing this I only stated that for deferred disposition, not driving safety course dismissal, requirements were dependent on the court; for deferred disposition the court may require a driving safety course. If you do not like that each judge is allowed to use discretion in imposing sentences than appeal their decisions. The key words here are deferred disposition not driving safety course dismissal. For driving safety court dismissal procedures the TX CCP outlines the proper procedures. I am pretty sure the municipal courts in Houston and Plano have withstood scrutiny for their deferred disposition procedures. Two different sets of circumstances which lead to the same outcome, either someone takes a driving safety course to dismiss a citation or they receive a deferred disposition after paying a fine and satisfying any other court sanctions imposed by the court. Again, if this had been a straight Driving safety course dismissal issue than TX CCP 45.0511 would be applicable here, but the operative words were deferred disposition, so judges are allowed to use their discretion during sentencing and defer judgments unless it is found to be unlawful on appeal. In cases of deferred disposition the driving safety course becomes the any other sanction authorized by law provision of TX CCP 45.041 and not the dismissal procedure for a citation as codified in TX CCP 45.0511.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.u.../htm/CR.45.htm

Art. 45.041. JUDGMENT

Art. 45.051. SUSPENSION OF SENTENCE AND DEFERRAL OF FINAL DISPOSITION

Art. 45.0511. DRIVING SAFETY COURSE OR MOTORCYCLE OPERATOR COURSE DISMISSAL PROCEDURES.

I do not claim to be a lawyer nor do I claim to play one on the internet; I am just someone from the internet. Nothing I say should ever be construed as legal advice. Only take legal advice from an attorney in the real world not someone from the internet.

[ShysterJon]

I think the language of CCP 45.0511(a-1) is clear that any driver 25 years of age or younger with a moving violation must take a driving safety course to get a deferred probation. If you disagree, quote language to the contrary, with attribution.

[frenchlouie1986]

Like I said I am not arguing this; we are just going to have to disagree on this subject. TX CCP 45.0511 provides for the dismissal of a citation through the taking of a driving safety course in lieu of a fine while deferred disposition is a court mandated judgement and sentence that has been deferred. And since it is a court decision the requirements and awarding of deferred disposition are subject to the discretion of the court, which means the court can establish any conditions authorized by law. Dismissal by driving safety course is a state provision which supersedes anything a court my require as long as the driver satisfies the conditions for dismissal. So, on one hand the court can decide to defer disposition on the other the state is allowing a driver a get out of jail free card. Two completely different ways to get to the same place.

[ShysterJon]

In your last post, you failed to mention the driver's age at all. You just repeated your old argument.

You've violated two principles of statutory construction. First, the specific governs over the general. You ignore that 45.0511(a-1) is specific regarding drivers younger than 25 years of age. Second, if a statute is clear, the statute shouldn't be interpreted. You cite no authority for your argument and try to interpret a clear statute.

You also don't appear to understand that ALL deferred probations BY DEFINITION involve dismissal.

Here are what other lawyers have to say about the issue:

"If the defendant is younger than 25 years of age and the offense committed by the defendant is a traffic offense classified as a moving violation, then driver's safety shall be required to be taken as a condition of deferred." (Emphasis added.)

http://garlandtrafficticketlawyer.co...in-garland-tx/

"If the offense is a 'traffic offense classified as a moving violation' and the defendant is younger than age 25, the judge shall require as a condition of deferred disposition that the defendant complete a driving safety course." (Emphasis added.)

http://onlineticketlawyer.com/traffic-tickets

"The judge shall require a defendant under the age of 25 charged with a moving traffic violation to complete a driving safety course as a term of deferred disposition." (Emphasis in original.)

See p. 19 of attached.

I could go on and on, but you get the point.

I also know that a DSC is a requirement for drivers younger than 25 because every municipal court in Texas where I've had such a case has required a DSC for a driver younger than 25. This includes the municipal courts in Houston and Plano. I don't make my living handling traffic tickets, but I do them sometimes as a favor for a family member, friend, or good client. I'd guess I've handled more than 50 tickets for drivers younger than 25 over the years.

I don't mind you being wrong. What I mind is that you're defiant in your ignorance.

MunicipalCourt--TheBasics.pdf