Herman Cain

[F-Sharp]

Originally Posted by Billy_Saul

Good luck competing in the world economy.

We will never be able to compete with the world economy, ie. cheap labor and cheap materials, which is why we need to stay the hell out of it. The Fairtax is however correct at the 23% marker if breaking even is the goal.

[gfejunkie]

Herman Cain will make a fine President.

To criticize the man or his policies would be labeling myself as a racist bigot.

I learned that from the 2008 election.

BTW, I am neither.

[Yssup Rider]

Yeah man, it's definitely over my head. I havent been paying taxes for 40 years or so... I have NO FUCKING CLUE!

Cain is a buffoon, as FSharp illustrated earlier.

Government must be efficient. But not deficient.

That's a concept I'm certain soars over your head, BS.

However, I'm sure there are folks around here who would rather say no than why...

[Billy_Saul]

Adopt a fucking tax code that eliminates loopholes, carve outs, subsidies, and social engineering period.. Cain does not propose to do this as is evidenced by his statement in one of the debates that certain areas (Detroit was his example) might receive a targeted benefit such as an 8-8-8 plan or some such bullshit. That is enough for me right there to avoid the Cain bandwagon.

If I own an AMP that brings in 250K annually, how much tax do you think I pay YR? ZERO would be the correct answer. What about the provider out there making 100K? The cattleman running 75K over the scales? The guy selling fire wood for cash on the side of the road. On and on, how much in taxes do they pay? Yet some poor bastard busting his ass for 30K is having the full slate of taxes deducted each and every week from his check. Get real, change the tax code.

[Carl]

Originally Posted by Billy_Saul

If I own an AMP that brings in 250K annually, how much tax do you think I pay YR? ZERO would be the correct answer. What about the provider out there making 100K? The cattleman running 75K over the scales? The guy selling fire wood for cash on the side of the road. On and on, how much in taxes do they pay? Yet some poor bastard busting his ass for 30K is having the full slate of taxes deducted each and every week from his check. Get real, change the tax code.

So, how does changing the tax code stop people from cheating on their taxes? No matter how fair or broad or low you establish taxes, not paying any at all is still cheaper than paying some. In your example, it seems like the AMP owner, the provider, the cattleman and the firewood guy on the side of the road are going to be dodging taxes and leaving the 30K guy to foot their share no matter what anybody does to the tax code. They don't want to pay taxes, period.

[gfejunkie]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

I have NO FUCKING CLUE!

No truer words have ever been spoken!

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Cain is a buffoon

You guys just don't get it, do you?

There was a change in the rules back in 2008...

You cannot say ANYTHING negative about a black man running for President without being branded a racist.

To do otherwise would be....



Wait for it....







It's coming....






It's the lefties' favorite word...






HYPOCRITICAL!

[Billy_Saul]

Originally Posted by Carl

So, how does changing the tax code stop people from cheating on their taxes?

Does the FairTax improve compliance and reduce evasion when compared to the current income tax?

The old aphorism that nothing is certain except death and taxes should be modified to include tax evasion. Tax evasion is chronic under any system so complex as to be incomprehensible. As a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP), tax evasion in 2001 is beyond 2.6 percent, compared to 1.6 percent in 1991. This represents over 16 percent of taxes due. Almost 40 percent of the public, according to the IRS, is out of compliance with the present tax system, mostly unintentionally due to the enormous complexity of the present system. These IRS figures do not include taxes lost on illegal sources of income with a criminal economy estimated at a trillion dollars. All this, despite a major enforcement effort and assessment of tens of millions of civil penalties on American taxpayers in an effort to force compliance with the tax system. Disrespect for the tax system and the law has reached dangerous levels and makes a system based on taxpayer self-assessment less and less viable.

The FairTax reduces rather than increases the problem of tax evasion. The increased fairness, transparency, and legitimacy of the system induces more compliance. The roughly 90-percent reduction in filers enables tax administrators more narrowly and effectively to address noncompliance and increases the likelihood of tax evasion discovery. The relative simplicity of the FairTax promotes compliance. Businesses need answer only one question to determine the tax due: How much was sold to consumers? Finally, because tax rates decrease, tax evasion is less profitable; and because of the dramatic reduction in the number of tax filers, tax evaders are more easily monitored and caught under the FairTax system.

Don't want to pay taxes then don't buy anything. Should be good for the country's savings rate.

[Carl]

Doesn't the Fair Tax still enable the AMP owner, the provider and firewood guy (and I suppose even the cattleman) to sell as much as they can off the books and still not pay taxes on that money? A sales tax is a consumption tax and there's a limit to how much even the rich consume. How many yachts does a gazillionaire buy? How many Subway $5 foot longs? And if high taxes on high incomes supposedly discourage how much people feel motivated to earn/make wouldn't a consumption tax tend to discourage consumption? Families deciding not to by that 2nd or 3rd automobile, or that 2nd, 3rd, or 4th TV set? Rely more on hand-me-downs for their kids' clothes instead of buying everything, or most things, new? If you discourage consumption and reduce overall consumption, say, 5%, doesn't that mean less demand, which becomes less retail sales, less profit for companies (as well as marginally less taxes collected) and doesn't that eventually translate to layoffs and unemployment?

[thehobbydude]

Carl - That is exactly my point. I like to use a more graphical example - just because you make $1 million bucks doesn't mean you shit more and use more toilet paper, but a lower income family will stop buying toilet paper and use left over newspapers or other cheaper means to wipe their ass. It is more likely that a family of 4 making $40K per year will spend every penny of their income consuming every day necessities, where as a family of 4 making $1 million is likely to have a lot of money left over after covering their necessities. True they'll save it, invest it, etc and banks will loan that money out, generating some benefit to the economy but overall that income will be taxed at a much lower rate (percentage-wise) than the $40K.

I guess when most of Americans get fed up with the top 1% using every loophole to avoid paying taxes it's class warfare, but when it's the other way around it's not.

At this point I don't give a shit anymore, I'm well educated and speak multiple languages, I can make a living pretty much anywhere else. I feel for the middle class that's falling for the GOP's tactics to screw them even more. It won't be pretty.

[RALPHEY BOY]

I like the guy, at least he brings ideas to the table instead of blaming and pissing and moaning..

[Aus]

Sales Tax. I don't claim to be the sharpest tool in the shed but I think a sales tax takes care of everything. If your a drug dealer, pimp, prostitute, landscaping, selling wood or birdhouses on the side of the road, etc., anytime you buy anything: the drug dealers Ferrari, you pay taxes. There are no loop holes that I can think of. I guess Best Buy could start selling big screens underground, but no, wait, Best Buy has to purchase the TV to sell the TV. Mmm. Would love to hear comments for and against.

[Yssup Rider]

Could you be any shallower gfejunkie? This isn't about race ... At least not to me anyway. Maybe you need to look past that and explain how Cains policy proposals will benefit the middle class. Buffoonery knows no color, as we're proven day and day out in this forum.

And BS, the only way you can eliminate tax cheats is by eliminating all taxes. Welcome to Fantasy Island.

[harkontume]

All of these post are great because they confront the core issues.
Debt, taxes, productivity,fairness.

For once we must look directly into the eye of the storm and not bandy about on tertiary issues which do not address root problems.

I submit:
1. We cannot Tax our way out of this Debt. Some have pointed out that 9/9/9 will still fall short if we are trying to Tax our way out of Debt. However, I have heard of no program which would not fall short. Even if we taxed at 100% for income over $250k we would still fall short.
2. Since we cannot tax our way out then we must cut spending. How that is accomplished is probably beyond the scope of a "post" but is must be done and it must be big.
3. Definition of Fair: free from bias, dishonesty, or injustice: a fair decision; a fair judge.
This is a much abused term. From the left fair means the successful person has more so must pay more ( or all ) of the burden. From the right it means we should all pay something. We are not going to change mindset on a post so I let it go at that.

But NONE of this has any thing to do with why Herman Cain is raising and popular.
IMHO: People are sick to death of politicians who say whatever they think will get them elected (usually in the frame work of their own belief system). Men and women who run for office on talking points and teleprompters.
Many no longer believe in professional politics. Both on the Left and the Right.
I think we have finally as a country experienced so much "politics" that we can tell when they are "avoiding" , "backtracking", "spinning" and just plain LYING.

Herman Cain (so far) has done none of the above. But he is a capable manager and executive. That is why I would vote for him.

[Yssup Rider]

Just plain LYING?

How about some of this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...n_1006228.html

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conten...administration

http://www.progressivemuckraker.com/...-for-2012.aspx

And pure bullshit?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=kUwDg1LLk6g

Yeah, yeah. It's the media.

Cain is a very shrewd businessman. But not fit to lead our country.

[harkontume]

really Dude? THATS where you get your info from? Blogs? Huffington? REALLY?

Well,,, good luck with that Comrade!