What would be a fitting punishment for the guy who killed that family?

[Guest051115]

Originally Posted by ElisabethWhispers

I don't believe that we should punish a savage act by yet another act of savagery.

His mental state needs to be evaluated and then, let the courts decide.

What has happened is tragic. "In Cold Blood" was a book that covered another family murder and it was so chilling. For whatever reason, when I was reading about what happened in Spring, I was reminded of that other family.

I'm sure the people in Houston are just stunned this happened. It's completely horrible.

Hate to be cynical but I wonder if you'd be saying this if the perp was black. Not all but many in the majority say stuff like this and seem to be quick to play the insanity defense with whites but far less compassionate when the perp is a minority. That may not be you but I wonder sometimes generally speaking.

[Mr. Romantic]

I don't care if he's white, black, asian, etc. etc. etc. - we need deterrent punishments in this country whether these perps are crazy or not. The death penalty is too limited and takes too long, and incarceration simply doesn't work for many criminals.

That YouTube video of torture methods was pretty interesting, especially the rack, and of course quartering. Do that a few times on national tv and see how it impacts the murder rate.

Anyone waiting for The Purge 2 to come out?

[Don T. Lukbak]

Originally Posted by Zanzibar789

Hate to be cynical but I wonder if you'd be saying this if the perp was black.

You wonder because of your race obsession.

Any mention of race in discussing this atrocity is a sign of mental deficiency or mental illness. Which is it in your case?

[ElisabethWhispers]

Originally Posted by Mr. Romantic

I don't care if he's white, black, asian, etc. etc. etc. - we need deterrent punishments in this country whether these perps are crazy or not. The death penalty is too limited and takes too long, and incarceration simply doesn't work for many criminals.

That YouTube video of torture methods was pretty interesting, especially the rack, and of course quartering. Do that a few times on national tv and see how it impacts the murder rate....

You're arguments are in conflict and they're not very romantic. Think about what you wrote. "Incarceration simply doesn't work ... " and then, you suggest that showing violence towards another would work to curb the hard core criminals.

Well, crime rates have been dramatically falling already and for decades. Read and study a bit deeper. I know that violence makes for good news but we're all doing the right things. I do think that we could do more.

It's been proven, over and over, that the death penalty isn't a deterrent with regard to the crime rate.

IF locking up criminals doesn't help. If having the death penalty has no bearing on this type of behavior, then why would you think that showing live torture on television would do anything but cause a horrifying reaction on the masses?

People like to be cooperative, generally speaking. There are always going to be sociopaths and a criminal element in society. It's part of who we are.

Having state sanctioned torture doesn't make sense for a civilized society. And that's why we're the ONLY country of our "type" to even offer the death penalty.

It's crazy. And you're insane if you really wish to have something so brutal, live, shown on American television with our children (and adults!) watching.

And do you KNOW why the crime rate is going down? It's because of education and the promotion of equal rights for women in other countries and this one, too.

Education, and continuing to promote education through all levels of society, is key. I'm oversimplifying, I know.

Showing torture on television to curb the crime rate? Jeesh. It's always fun to throw out a statement like that in theory but think about what you're writing, first.

[ElisabethWhispers]

Originally Posted by Zanzibar789

Hate to be cynical but I wonder if you'd be saying this if the perp was black. Not all but many in the majority say stuff like this and seem to be quick to play the insanity defense with whites but far less compassionate when the perp is a minority. That may not be you but I wonder sometimes generally speaking.

I'll bite. What you wrote is reasonable.

However, I feel differently. I think, and I'm older and remember segregation, etc., that things are getting better, race wise.

I remember how things were as a child in the 60's and 70's. I also know how things have changed. Have they changed enough? Of course not.

Again, education is key. If we can lift up others, and educate them and let different people from all walks of life thrive (I'm REALLY not as Polly Anna as I'm sounding now!), and focus on equal rights for women and men ... we will continue to see progress.

This situation? This awful murder? This is something that just happens. I know that bringing in the idea that if it was a black guy that we would somehow be saying to others, with more frequency, hang 'em high, is a very valid statement.

However, I would like to offer just a different viewpoint, a little bit of one.

Here in Garland, Texas (where I'm located) last fall, there was some white 18 year old kid who went into a 7-11 and just viciously shot and killed an Ethopian worker there. It was senseless and the kid admitted to just wanting to know how it would be to kill someone.

White. Upper middle class neighborhood. Regular kid. You should have READ the comments on wfaa.com I'm not going to worry about using quotations correctly on a Saturday morning but the responses were vicious. Kill him, he should be shot in the face, hang him from the highest tree, sociopaths like that don't deserve to walk the streets, let him drink poison and him die a slow and painful death, an easy death is too good for him, etc..

The comments seem to come from white collar type of people. They knew how to articulate. It was chilling for me to read.

So those type of sentiments run really deep in our society. And I get it. I do. But I see that same reaction to white kids as well. Hispanics, too.

There is a lot of hatred, and more important, FEAR in our hearts.

I went on a tangent. Sorry. But I don't think that you deserve to be clobbered for your statements. I just wish that we could move away from that type of thinking at times.

Best,
Elisabeth

[Guest051115]

Originally Posted by Don T. Lukbak

You wonder because of your race obsession.

Any mention of race in discussing this atrocity is a sign of mental deficiency or mental illness. Which is it in your case?

I'm human so maybe it's both I can assure you one thing I have a good heart and once my time is up on earth I expect to be rewarded on the other side. ;-)

[Guest051115]

Originally Posted by ElisabethWhispers

I'll bite. What you wrote is reasonable.

However, I feel differently. I think, and I'm older and remember segregation, etc., that things are getting better, race wise.

I remember how things were as a child in the 60's and 70's. I also know how things have changed. Have they changed enough? Of course not.

Again, education is key. If we can lift up others, and educate them and let different people from all walks of life thrive (I'm REALLY not as Polly Anna as I'm sounding now!), and focus on equal rights for women and men ... we will continue to see progress.

This situation? This awful murder? This is something that just happens. I know that bringing in the idea that if it was a black guy that we would somehow be saying to others, with more frequency, hang 'em high.

But here in Garland, Texas last fall, there was some white 18 year old kid who went into a 7-11 and just viciously shot and killed an Ethopian worker there. It was senseless and the kid admitted to just wanting to know how it would be to kill someone.

White. Upper middle class neighborhood. Regular kid. You should have READ the comments on wfaa.com I'm not going to worry about using quotations correctly on a Saturday morning but the responses were vicious. Kill him, he should be shot in the face, hang him from the highest tree, sociopaths like that don't deserve to walk the streets, let him drink poison and him die a slow and painful death, an easy death is too good for him, etc..

The comments seem to come from white collar type of people. They knew how to articulate. It was chilling for me to read.

So those type of sentiments run really deep in our society. And I get it. I do. But I see that same reaction to white kids as well. Hispanics, too.

There is a lot of hatred, and more important, FEAR in our hearts.

I went on a tangent. Sorry. But I don't think that you deserve to be clobbered for your statements. I just wish that we could move away from that type of thinking at times.

Best,
Elisabeth

Let me start by saying nice response. I agree with most of it. I personally haven't seen anyone clobber me because I'm not seeing the full justification of their arguments. You seem like a baby boomer while I'm stuck somewhere between the Gen X and Gen Y mentality. I agree race wise things are better but things have also morphed into something even more sinister. Consider this Southern Poverty Law Center study.

Obama's election as the first African-American president and his pro-gun control stance have fueled the increase in anti-government groups, according to the report.

The number of American "patriot" extremist groups has reached a record level, according to a new study, and experts are warning of a wave of anti-government violence.

A report released Tuesday by the Southern Poverty Law Center counted 1,360 "patriot" extremist groups in 2012 -- up by 7% from 2011. The study defines patriot groups as anti-government militias driven by their fear that authorities will strip them of their guns and liberties.

Extremists, Gletty warned, "are in a battle in their minds. Their backs are against the wall."

Source

[Mr. Romantic]

Originally Posted by ElisabethWhispers

You're arguments are in conflict and they're not very romantic. Think about what you wrote. "Incarceration simply doesn't work ... " and then, you suggest that showing violence towards another would work to curb the hard core criminals.

Well, crime rates have been dramatically falling already and for decades. Read and study a bit deeper. I know that violence makes for good news but we're all doing the right things. I do think that we could do more.

It's been proven, over and over, that the death penalty isn't a deterrent with regard to the crime rate.

IF locking up criminals doesn't help. If having the death penalty has no bearing on this type of behavior, then why would you think that showing live torture on television would do anything but cause a horrifying reaction on the masses?

People like to be cooperative, generally speaking. There are always going to be sociopaths and a criminal element in society. It's part of who we are.

Having state sanctioned torture doesn't make sense for a civilized society. And that's why we're the ONLY country of our "type" to even offer the death penalty.

It's crazy. And you're insane if you really wish to have something so brutal, live, shown on American television with our children (and adults!) watching.

And do you KNOW why the crime rate is going down? It's because of education and the promotion of equal rights for women in other countries and this one, too.

Education, and continuing to promote education through all levels of society, is key. I'm oversimplifying, I know.

Showing torture on television to curb the crime rate? Jeesh. It's always fun to throw out a statement like that in theory but think about what you're writing, first.

Sweetie, it's just some dark sarcasm produced by the anger I have towards this guy for being a coward and not blowing his own head off when he should have. I was actually anti-death penalty before I moved to Texas, but this guy only reinforces my belief that we need it. Just wish they didn't have to drag it out so long in cases of undisputed guilt. Fast track to the needle would save taxpayers a lot of money.

[Don T. Lukbak]

I reluctantly concur the death penalty is sometimes necessary, for criminals whose crime is so heinous they've simply forfeited their natural right to exist. Lethal injection is a sorry way to do it though...it's more a sop to delicate sensibilities among the public than a kindness to the condemned. It is definitely better, though, than the electric chair or gas chamber.

The falling axe, the guillotine, was very quick and painless. Counterintuitively, arterial hemorrhaging stopped almost immediately and left little mess.

[Out_of_Bounds]

To the OP's question I think simply placing him in a jail cell for the remainder of his existence on this plane of reality to contemplate what he's done is suffering enough. Hopefully he'll get a clue and on the next go around he'll not repeat the same mistake.

[ElisabethWhispers]

Originally Posted by Out_of_Bounds

To the OP's question I think simply placing him in a jail cell for the remainder of his existence on this plane of reality to contemplate what he's done is suffering enough. Hopefully he'll get a clue and on the next go around he'll not repeat the same mistake.

Beautifully, and succinctly, written. I agree.

[Guest012615]

Originally Posted by Out_of_Bounds

To the OP's question I think simply placing him in a jail cell for the remainder of his existence on this plane of reality to contemplate what he's done is suffering enough. Hopefully he'll get a clue and on the next go around he'll not repeat the same mistake.

That's nice and all, but you're paying for his meals and medical care for the rest of his life.

[Don T. Lukbak]

Originally Posted by wickerman1

That's nice and all, but you're paying for his meals and medical care for the rest of his life.

The other side would argue that would be less costly than the execution process. It shouldn't be...but it is.

What does the surviving family want? I don't know, but I would want to quicksmart and personally put his ass down. We all know that won't happen, so I believe my second choice would be some other form of quick finality..a plea bargain with waived right to appeal in exchange for life in prison without parole. That way I wouldn't be tormented by parole hearings for the mangy cocksucker for the rest of my life.

Of course you'd actually have to have the experience before you know for sure what you'd want, so I'm perfectly happy just guessing ...

[ackvt]

Originally Posted by Don T. Lukbak

There's no earthly punishment harsh enough to fit his crime. I believe his real punishment will come after he's dead.

I can't argue with that but why risk it?

[ackvt]

Originally Posted by Zanzibar789

Same reason Osama's singular death wasn't equivalent to the 3000+ he took.

I always thought handing Osama over to the NYPD and or NYFD and let them take care of it would be appropriate.