Here is what Mike Flynn said to Russian Amb.

[HedonistForever]

Originally Posted by UHB

who you calling a pig - real estates


you american " born in the u.s.a. " for one purpose
that simone say (AMERICA GOT NO TALENT - ROBBERY SCAM LAUNDERING INTO TALL BULLING REAL ESTATE) go over to euorope assist brit and fries WWII

Hard to tell if this is "your brain on drugs", English is not your best language and a bit of conspiracy theory thrown in. At the very least, add spell check to your post. Punctuation "no importante", because mine sucks too.

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by bambino

Thank you Yssup Rider/Hohummer

thats not yssup rider/hohummer... thats cjonny



he's just doesn't make any sense.

[eccielover]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

thats not yssup rider/hohummer... thats cjonny



he's just doesn't make any sense.

We were all hoping he would just stick to the 100+ page thread of his ramblings.

He's branching out to other threads and it's getting embarrassing.

[eccieuser9500]

Originally Posted by matchingmole

Flynn is guilty as hell

Originally Posted by Jackie S

Of what?

Originally Posted by HedonistForever

Typical. Nobody from the left can make a clear coherent argument using the words in the actual phone call, to make the case that General Flynn committed a crime other than the criminal elements of the FBI telling us he lied when they can't prove it by anything other than their word. Susan Rice demanded the transcript be released. I'd like to hear the recorded testimony of Flynn to the Mueller investigation proving he said he never discussed sanctions. Knowing all the lies the FBI and Obama personal have told in this sorry fiasco, I don't believe a word senile Mueller or his Democrat political operatives say about anything. This prosecution was tainted from the jump and deserves to be dismissed and Flynn needs to sue Comey and cohorts, to get back that 6.7 million they took from him.

916. FALSE STATEMENTS TO A FEDERAL INVESTIGATOR

https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/...l-investigator

The circumstance often arises in which a false statement is made in response to an inquiry by an FBI or other Federal agent, or made voluntarily to an agent. The issue is whether such a statement is within the purview of 18 U.S.C. § 1001.

It is the Department's policy not to charge a § 1001 violation in situations in which a suspect, during an investigation, merely denies guilt in response to questioning by the government. See JM 9-42.160 for a discussion of the Department's policy. This policy is to be narrowly construed, however; affirmative, discursive and voluntary statements to Federal criminal investigators would not fall within the policy. Further, certain false responses to questions propounded for administrative purposes (e.g., statements to border or United States Immigration and Naturalization Service agents during routine inquiries) are also prosecutable, as are untruthful "no's" when the defendant initiated contact with the government in order to obtain a benefit.

Lying to the FBI is a crime. Ask Martha Stewart.

Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure

(As amended to December 1, 2016)


Here You Can Download This Application from PlayStore

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d....federal.rules

[HedonistForever]

Originally Posted by eccieuser9500

916. FALSE STATEMENTS TO A FEDERAL INVESTIGATOR

https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/...l-investigator



Lying to the FBI is a crime. Ask Martha Stewart.

Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure

(As amended to December 1, 2016)


Here You Can Download This Application from PlayStore

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d....federal.rules

Typical.As usual, you make no attempt to debate the merits, just repeating the same old "lying to the FBI is a crime"., yeah "sometimes" and when it is an attempt to hide a crime like Martha Stewart is alleged to have committed, it is warranted. What crime was Flynn alleged to have committed?



The simple truth is that no crime was committed. The FBI knew what was said, knew it wasn't a crime and hopped beyond hope that they could find something, anything to charge Flynn with because he had not committed a crime. What are you so afraid of, to admit that Flynn was set up? Why not address the exculpatory evidence that the FBI sat on for over 3 years? The hand written note from the head of Counter Intelligence of the FBI asking "what is our goal, truth/ admission or to try and get him to lie so we can prosecute him or get him fired".


Why don't you want to address this? Did the judge even know about this because any judge worth his salt after hearing that "declaration" should have tossed the case.


The FBI couldn't find the original 302 that may have said that the agents found Flynn to be truthful and made no attempt to deceive but that didn't sit well with Comey and 5 weeks later violating FBI protocols that only the agents involved in the interview could write a 302, Lisa Page council for the FBI helped draft the new 302 that said what? Have we seen that document or are we supposed to take the word of an FBI that has now been proven to have altered documents in applying for a FISA warrant and hiding exculpatory evidence?


Never mind, he lied to the FBI which wasn't a problem for Obama when he pardoned another General who lied to the FBI not having served a day in prison. Obama called Flynn not serving a day ( hopefully ) would be un-precedented. He lied. Hillary lied but Comey let her slide. And none of this bothers you. Why is that?

[oeb11]

Answer for HF - - speaking what 9500 will not - Democrats are Hypocrites - who view their own crimes as "part of their cause" and flynn's manufactured "crime" as "part of the struggle against trump and conservatiwm".

They have no interest in equality for all under rule of law and the Constitution. Only for their own Party and idiotology.

And that , my fellow posters - in my mind spells a terrible outlook for our country and constitution when the DPST's next take control of government.

Orwellian autocracy is their aim - and the prisons will full and the excess intended for prisons will be up against walls and shot by the DPST's.


meme of YSL adjusting cuff links - and they claim to not be ELITIST!

[eccieuser9500]

Originally Posted by HedonistForever

Typical.As usual, you make no attempt to debate the merits, just repeating the same old "lying to the FBI is a crime"., yeah "sometimes" and when it is an attempt to hide a crime like Martha Stewart is alleged to have committed, it is warranted. What crime was Flynn alleged to have committed?



The simple truth is that no crime was committed.

Wrong. The problem is that nobody in the administration wants to prosecute. Thay is a different debate. I've been on the record here before. Before you came on the scene. I think.


An actual debate. Here? None. The "almost" head of NATIONAL SECURITY was selling out the country. For anyone who's put on the uniform, he is a fuckin' disgrace.


New Transcript Shows Trump Adviser Michael Flynn Colluding With Russia in 2016


https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020...sanctions.html

Flynn’s discussions with Kislyak were not part of a criminal conspiracy. They were, however, part of a secret channel of communications, the premise of which was that the two parties had a secret common interest against the United States government. One word that might describe this relationship would be “collusion.”

[bambino]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

thats not yssup rider/hohummer... thats cjonny



he's just doesn't make any sense.

How do you know? Did Yssup make any sense?

[Jacuzzme]

The "almost" head of NATIONAL SECURITY was selling out the country. For anyone who's put on the uniform, he is a fuckin' disgrace.

Not sure who you’ve been talking too, but I made a lot of friends in over 20 years and they’re, without exception, pissed about Flynn getting railroaded.

[eccieuser9500]

Originally Posted by HedonistForever

And none of this bothers you. Why is that?

This is called politics. Should I define it for you? What bothers me more is inaction by Governors and Distric Attorneys sanctioning murder by "law enforcement".

[bambino]

Originally Posted by eccieuser9500

This is called politics. Should I define it for you? What bothers me more is inaction by Governors and Distric Attorneys sanctioning murder by "law enforcement".

Yep, Cuomo sanctioned lots of murders by sending Covid patients to nursing homes.

[Munchmasterman]

What are you babbling about? Flynn was charged for lying to the FBI. How do we know he did? He said he did, at least twice in court and under oath, and signed numerous documents in his plea deal alluding to his guilt.


trump said,
"The FBI said (former national security adviser Michael Flynn) wasn't lying."
No, the FBI did not say Michael Flynn did not lie, as Donald Trump said
In his first interview since being cleared of criminally conspiring in Russia’s 2016 election interference, President Donald Trump did not rule out pardoning members of his campaign who were convicted as a result of Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s probe.

Trump’s former national security adviser Michael Flynn, for example, pled guilty to intentionally making false statements to the FBI. But Trump claimed that the FBI actually found his campaign aide had not lied to agents.

"General Flynn, he was a man who had an incredible record in the military, you see what happened to him," Trump told Fox News’ Sean Hannity. "The FBI said he wasn't lying, as I understand it, and if the Mueller group said he was lying, and you know what he has gone through, and what so many others have gone through."

In the waning days of his presidency, Barack Obama on Dec. 29, 2016, responded to Russia’s interference in the election by expelling 35 Russian diplomats and issuing new sanctions.

Following Obama’s move against Russia, Flynn spoke to Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak. The special counsel established that Flynn asked Kislyak to "refrain from escalating the situation." Kislyak later said that Russia "had chosen to moderate its response to those sanctions as a result of his request."

The next day, Putin announced that he would not retaliate against the Obama administration’s sanctions — a move that Trump praised later that day on Twitter:

"Great move on delay (by V. Putin)," Trump tweeted. "I always knew he was very smart!"

The following month, Flynn, who was at this point Trump’s national security adviser, spoke to the FBI agents. That’s when, according to the special counsel, Flynn falsely said he never discussed the Obama administration’s Russia sanctions with Kislyak.
But apparently Flynn didn’t appear flustered or nervous when he lied to the FBI. A partially redacted FBI memo — known as a 302 — states that the FBI agents said Flynn "did not give any indicators of deception." During Michael Flynn’s sentencing phase, the special counsel reiterated the agents’ impression.

This seems to be the basis for Trump’s claim. But Trump’s selective reading gives a false impression itself.

Lawyers for the special counsel’s office said Flynn’s seemingly guileless demeanor did not change the fact that he was lying — which Flynn himself admitted.

"Those misimpressions do not change the fact — as the defendant has admitted in sworn testimony to this District Court — that he was indeed lying, and knowingly made false statements to FBI agents in a national security investigation," they wrote.

In addition to lying about discussions he had with Kislyak about the Obama sanctions, Flynn also admitted to lying to FBI agents when he falsely told them he had not discussed having Russia help delay or defeat a vote on a United Nations Security Council resolution.

Our ruling
Trump said of his former national security adviser Michael Flynn, "The FBI said he wasn't lying."

Trump is taking FBI agents’ impressions completely out of context. The agents who interviewed Flynn about his contacts with the Russian ambassador before Trump became president said he did not appear to be lying — meaning, he didn’t seem nervous or exhibit the usual traits of deception.

That’s quite different from their factual conclusion: Flynn lied to them. Flynn pled guilty to intentionally making false statements and is awaiting sentencing.

We rate this False.

https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...not-lie-donal/

Originally Posted by HedonistForever

Here it is, the conversation that James Comey thought proved that General Flynn was conspiring with Russia. See what you think.


https://apnews.com/4e0dd41bb404d10e87f1cb34b7de7a 01






So, to review, no request to not retaliate but to make it reciprocal and offered nothing in return if Russia does this, only a suggestion that this would be the best course of action for both countries. Nothing what so ever to "suggest" that we would "do something" for Russia, if they did something for us.

So to review your review, why include this? Nothing to do with the charges.
Now, you want to hear how the far left described the call?





https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/05/newly-released-transcripts-show-michael-flynn-betrayed-the-united-states/
One far left opinion. So what?




Wow, suggesting that things could be "smoothed over"! And that is treason against the US? Are you kidding me? It is absolutely the right of a succeeding President to institute a different foreign policy than the previous administration. Almost like presenting Russia with a big red button and calling it a "reset", huh? That's what Hillary did, asked Russia for a reset. Wasn't treasonous then but under Trump it is. Fucking amazing.

Not only not amazing, it has nothing to do with the charges against Flynn.

There is lying to the FBI to hide a crime, like Hillary didWhat lies?
trump claims
"Hillary Clinton lied many times to the FBI."
Donald Trump falsely claims Hillary Clinton lied to FBI
President Donald Trump claimed former rival Hillary Clinton and former top adviser Michael Flynn suffered vastly different consequences even though both "lied" to the FBI.

"Hillary Clinton lied many times to the FBI, nothing happened to her. Flynn lied and they've destroyed his life. I think it's a shame," Trump said Dec. 4 before boarding Marine One for a trip to Utah.

Trump recalled the summer of the 2016 presidential campaign, when the FBI probed Clinton’s use of private email while secretary of state. "Hillary Clinton, on the Fourth of July weekend, went to the FBI, not under oath. It was the most incredible thing anyone's ever seen. She lied many times, nothing happened to her. Flynn lied and it's like they ruined his life. It’s very unfair."

In an earlier tweet on the topic, he posed a question: "Rigged system, or just a double standard?"


Donald J. Trump
✔
@realDonaldTrump
So General Flynn lies to the FBI and his life is destroyed, while Crooked Hillary Clinton, on that now famous FBI holiday “interrogation” with no swearing in and no recording, lies many times...and nothing happens to her? Rigged system, or just a double standard?

126K
9:06 PM - Dec 2, 2017
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78.2K people are talking about this
Flynn, Trump’s former National Security Adviser, pleaded guilty on Dec. 1 to misleading the FBI about conversations he had with Russia’s ambassador to the United States, Sergey Kislyak.

Flynn also said he’s cooperating with Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation of Russia’s role in the 2016 presidential campaign and Trump campaign contacts with Russians.

Did Clinton lie many times to the FBI, as Trump claimed?

The head of the FBI at the time — James Comey — told Congress there was "no basis to conclude she lied to the FBI."

The White House did not provide material to support Trump’s claim.

Let's revisit the recent history books.

Clinton exclusively used personal email when she was secretary of state between 2009 and 2013, the New York Times revealed, choosing to rely on two email servers in the basement of her home in Chappaqua, N.Y.

Clinton repeatedly claimed she did not have any classified emails on her server from time at the State Department, but an FBI investigation found some classified information ended up on her private server, which was an unclassified system.

Comey said in July 2016 that there was not enough evidence to charge her with a crime, and he urged the Justice Department not to prosecute Clinton because there was not enough evidence that she intentionally mishandled classified information with her "extremely careless" email setup. (We covered the Clinton email scandal and related claims.)

Trump referred to her communication with the FBI "on the Fourth of July weekend" during the campaign. There is no transcript of the interview that FBI agents had with with Clinton on July 2, 2016, about her email usage in what her campaign described as a "voluntary interview."

Comey was not present for the discussion. But he spoke for the agency five days later when House members quizzed him about what happened in a hearing.
Rep. Gerald Connolly, D-Va., explicitly asked Comey if Clinton lied to the FBI in that interview.

Comey’s response: "I have no basis for concluding that she was untruthful with us."

During a line of questioning with then-Rep. Mick Mulvaney, R-S.C., Comey reiterated, "We do not have a basis for concluding she lied to the FBI."

Here’s another exchange with then-Rep. Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah, in which Comey repeatedly said he was not aware of any FBI case in which Clinton lied.

Chaffetz: "So Hillary Clinton did come to possess documents and materials that contained classified information via e-mail on these unsecured servers is that correct?"

Comey: "That is correct."

Chaffetz: "Did Hillary Clinton lie?"

Comey: "To the FBI? We have no basis to conclude she lied to the FBI."

Chaffetz: "Did she lie to the public?"

Comey: "That's a question I'm not qualified to answer. I can speak about what she said to the FBI."

Chaffetz: "Did she -- did Hillary Clinton lie under oath?"

Comey: "Not to the FBI. Not in a case we're working."

The distinction between what Clinton told the FBI and what she told the public is important. Clinton earned a Pants on Fire for claiming that, regarding the presence of classified information in her email, "Comey said my answers were truthful, and what I've said is consistent with what I have told the American people."

That was a rosy review of reality. Comey had specifically sidestepped whether she provided accurate information to the public. In particular, Clinton said there wasn’t any classified information in her email in media interviews, and Comey said there was.

However, Trump’s charge said Clinton lied to the FBI, and the agency has made no such claim.

Our ruling
Trump said, "Hillary Clinton lied many times to the FBI."

We at PolitiFact don't know exactly what Clinton told FBI investigators. We also know, however, that Trump failed to back up his allegation. Former FBI director Comey in congressional testimony said there was no basis to conclude she lied to the FBI.

We rate Trump’s claim False.

https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...linton-lied-f/
and then there is lying ( supposedly, we have no proof other than Mueller that he said this )Wrong. You must have missed the fact we have Flynn's word he lied when questioned by the FBI. about a conversation that was not a crime. AH! but the FBI wanted a crime, I dare say needed a crime to make sure General Flynn didn't get the keys to the intelligence kingdom and could see what Obama's FBI, DOJ and CIA were up to, spying on what soon would be, the next administration.


5 months of investigating Flynn and the FBI finds nothing derogatory according to recently released transcripts. We also find out that the original FBI 302's, a record of what the two agents that interviewed Flynn, remember from the conversation. One version of events suggested that the 2 agents found no intent to deceive which leads me to believe that Flynn perhaps did not lie to the agents at that time.Now you can see why what you believe means nothing without proof. The 2 agents did not detect the lies Flynn admitted making. In other words, they didn't see the common tells many liars show. See above link/ Amazingly enough, the 302's that are to be written up within a couple of days of the interview, go missing and 5 weeks later, Strzok and Page "reconstruct" the account. Problem is, like Comey sending agents into the White House, this violated FBI protocols because Page did not have the authority to work on that document. Only the two agents involved could write that document. Two very big deviations of FBI protocols.


Mueller says Flynn lied about not speaking of sanctions. Anybody heard that tape? And what if he did lie? How would that impact a case against Flynn as to conspiring with Russia, which we can now see he didn't do.
You're pretty thick. Flynn admitted he lied.
And what if he did lie? That's a stupid question. Everything that's happened to him happened because he lied


Hillary lies about material violations of the law and doesn't get prosecuted even though she, according to Comey's own testimony, lied to the Congressional committee investigating her. Comey says, "she didn't lie to the FBI. Well I guess the FBI must not have asked her the same questions that the Congressional committee did. And you believe that?


Nothing more than a double standard at work her at best. At worst, a massive plot to take down a President over nothing illegal.

Flynn admitted he lied and was cooperating with the investigation. You keep questioning the information you claim/imply is wrong but was provided by Flynn himself. A fact you completely ignore. Also, stop trying to confuse the issue. The call wasn't illegal.
Lying about it was.

I wonder why he would lie about the call...on multiple occasions?

[HedonistForever]

Originally Posted by eccieuser9500

Wrong. The problem is that nobody in the administration wants to prosecute.



Did Obama want to prosecute his General for lying to the FBI? Nope, gave him a pardon. I'm only asking, all I have ever asked, is equal treatment under the law. James Comey said Hillary lied under oath, did he prosecute her?


Thay is a different debate. I've been on the record here before. Before you came on the scene. I think.


What's a different debate? Please try and make some sense.



An actual debate. Here? None.


WTF does that mean? Talking in riddles doesn't help.



The "almost" head of NATIONAL SECURITY was selling out the country. For anyone who's put on the uniform, he is a fuckin' disgrace.



So let me ask you, ever put on the uniform?



So the new incoming National Security Adviser, having been appointed by the new President set to take the office in a matter of days, can not change the National Security policies of the US? Really? Asking another country to hold off on retaliation is working against the interest of the United States? What was offered that could be perceived as being in the interest of the Russia?



Was it anything like Obama asking Medvedev not to retaliate against the US until he wins his second term when he will have more "flexibility"? What exactly does that mean if not I'll be able to accommodate you after I win because if I do it before I win, I may not win? I know, hard to answer huh? Well, of course you still have the old, lame "whataboutism" you could trot out when you have no other answer.



New Transcript Shows Trump Adviser Michael Flynn Colluding With Russia in 2016


https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020...sanctions.html

Here is the gist of the article you posted, no different than the one I did with Mother Jones.

The transcripts today quote Flynn telling Kislyak, “Do not, do not uh, allow this (Obama) administration to box us in, right now, okay?” If that does not constitute “undermined the outgoing administration’s policy,” what does?

Where does it say that a policy of the previous administration is sacrosanct and can't be altered or changed? And where in the call did it say what those changes if any would be? It could just as easily turned out that the sanctions would remain which I think they did, right?


Any other policies the new President couldn't change from the Obama administration or are you and the writer just talkin out your ass now. Hell, the Obama administration wanted to "reset" relations with Russia. What do you have to reset if they hadn't done something Obama objected to but wanted to forgive and forget?

Two days later, the two men held a follow-up call, in which Kislyak made the premise more explicit. “I just wanted to tell you that we found that these actions have targeted not only against Russia, but also against the president elect.” Flynn replied, “Yeah, yeah,” accepting the premise.

Because the premise was correct. Obama was making a decision as to how the new President must react when Obama himself did not want to be constrained by his own first term policy and was willing to be more flexible in his second term.

Kislyak then said he agreed with Flynn’s request not to retaliate.

And that wasn't in the interest of the US but was in the interest of Russia being shown to be weak by not retaliating? Your head is spinning so fast you can't even make sense of what you are saying.

“We have decided not to act now because, it’s because people [presumably the outgoing Obama administration] are dissatisfied with the loss of elections, and it’s very deplorable.”
Flynn’s discussions with Kislyak were not part of a criminal conspiracy.

Well, thanks for that I guess.


They were, however, part of a secret channel of communications,


Secret channel? Was the conversation encrypted? Can a channel the NSA is listening to be described as a "secret channel"? What a preposterous thing to say but that's what happens when you get out ahead of your skies trying to make something out of nothing.

the premise of which was that the two parties had a secret common interest against the United States government.

And what exactly was that common interest other than not to escalate a battle of sanctions? Did I miss something? was this "common interest" spelled out or made up in the minds of conspiracy theorist?


One word that might describe this relationship would be “collusion.”


One word that might describe this article is "delusion" but I'll bite, they colluded to do what exactly and this collusion better be found in the words of the conversation or it's just bullshit on your part, contrived bullshit.


But hey, that was a much better but still lame attempt at debate compared to your last attempt. So, what was the collusion? To do what exactly? Election is over so no colluding there. Sanctions not only remained on but were increased and signed off by Trump. What exactly did Russia get for Trump being elected by Russian trolls on Facebook? Let's see, an armed Ukraine with tank killing missiles something Obama wouldn't supply and an energy policy that damn near bankrupted Russia. Yeah, Trump was a real boon to Russia... in your imagination.

[matchingmole]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

Of what?

Criminal shenanigans.............


Flynn was guilty: He pleaded guilty to lying and he said expressly he was pleading guilty because he was guilty. His conduct was inexcusable, particularly given his prior government service, and it jeopardized the national security.

[Munchmasterman]

And everybody knows, cufflinks tell it all?

Flynn's "crime" is a crime. I have no problems with conservatives. Too bad there aren't any on this site.
Just trumpys. People who worship a projecting douche-bag who has put the country where it is. The only thing you non-elitists have in common is a complete aversion to the truth.
And now he has added a country to the list of enterprises he has fucked up. But none of it's his fault.

Just ask him or you.

Originally Posted by oeb11

Answer for HF - - speaking what 9500 will not - Democrats are Hypocrites - who view their own crimes as "part of their cause" and flynn's manufactured "crime" as "part of the struggle against trump and conservatiwm".

They have no interest in equality for all under rule of law and the Constitution. Only for their own Party and idiotology.

And that , my fellow posters - in my mind spells a terrible outlook for our country and constitution when the DPST's next take control of government.

Orwellian autocracy is their aim - and the prisons will full and the excess intended for prisons will be up against walls and shot by the DPST's.


meme of YSL adjusting cuff links - and they claim to not be ELITIST!