Where is the sex in BDSM?

[Guest061511-2]

I have read books about pro femme dommes where they allow release, but no sex. How its frowned upon and such. It wasn't until I started providing that I learned I was a bit of a sadist. That allowed me to explore bdsm and sensual domination. I guess I understand that mentality of a pro domme, but since I started out providing I am more open minded. I just don't like labels. I think we domme providers should be free to incorporate sex if we like. Especially as a reward after being teased and denied, also for my own pleasure he he. I like to dole out the mind fuck more than anything. Its extremely challenging mentally. Remember when we were kids free to play all types of games and how big our imaginations were? To me, providing domme services is like unleashing an inner child of sorts. Its a great escape. Its fucking theraputic!

[LatexLover]

Originally Posted by BritneyBangs

I have read books about pro femme dommes where they allow release, but no sex. How its frowned upon and such. It wasn't until I started providing that I learned I was a bit of a sadist. That allowed me to explore bdsm and sensual domination. I guess I understand that mentality of a pro domme, but since I started out providing I am more open minded. I just don't like labels. I think we domme providers should be free to incorporate sex if we like. Especially as a reward after being teased and denied, also for my own pleasure he he. I like to dole out the mind fuck more than anything. Its extremely challenging mentally. Remember when we were kids free to play all types of games and how big our imaginations were? To me, providing domme services is like unleashing an inner child of sorts. Its a great escape. Its fucking theraputic!

Please pm me if you come to Dallas. I d love to kneel at your feet!

[TaylorMaiden29]

Originally Posted by Krunkman

For those that are interested in a decidedly polar opposite view on provider dommes, check out this fetlife thread... http://fetlife.com/groups/13634/group_posts/407932. It's entitled "prosti-dommes: hookers who are NOT DOMMES".

It's, umm, well, interesting. I understand people taking pride in their work, and they are generally correct in that many pro dommes have the experience and skill to run a very good "true" bdsm session that is not focused around sexual pleasure. But for most that I've seen here, sexual pleasure and release are as equally important, if not more, than the bdsm aspect. Which makes sense, considering what it is that this board is here for.

The only thing that really bothered me reading postings in the group was the continual use of "Me"... as best as I can tell, the number of royal persona's who would rate a royal use of Us/Ours, etc is quite small. And what's up with the high number of goddesses in that line of business too? When you get your Domme plaque from the crackerjack box, does 1 in 3 automatically grant the finder special supernatural powers?

Sometimes I think I should just stick to masturbation... at least I've "Mastered" that...

The link that you posted can only be accessed if you have an account. I do and I read the thread. The Pro Domme's are justifying their stand on not wanting to be both because it is illegal and will bring Johnny Law down on them. They also seem to feel that "it's not fair" because why would a guy see a Pro Domme if he can see a Prosti-Domme? In fact! That is exactly what I am!

I think those girls are going to blame Prosti-Dommes for their slow business because its easier than looking at their own business model and see that they don't get the "supply and demand" aspect of business. They don't want to supply what the client "demands" and think the client should come pay anyway because they are the Domme? Maybe they should take a lesson of "slave currency" from me. Because that is what it really boils down to.

My dominance comes from my mantra: I can get everything I want if I help enough people get what they want. Brilliant in simplicity.

[AveryMoore]

Originally Posted by BritneyBangs

I have read books about pro femme dommes where they allow release, but no sex. How its frowned upon and such. It wasn't until I started providing that I learned I was a bit of a sadist. That allowed me to explore bdsm and sensual domination. I guess I understand that mentality of a pro domme, but since I started out providing I am more open minded. I just don't like labels. I think we domme providers should be free to incorporate sex if we like. Especially as a reward after being teased and denied, also for my own pleasure he he. I like to dole out the mind fuck more than anything. Its extremely challenging mentally. Remember when we were kids free to play all types of games and how big our imaginations were? To me, providing domme services is like unleashing an inner child of sorts. Its a great escape. Its fucking theraputic!

I love the way you put this, Britney! It makes me really sad to see women in the business creating artificial divides and reasons to denigrate others...and I've always been disappointed with the mentality of some of the more extreme dommes that a woman who provides sex in addition to domination is inauthentic, not "real," etc. Clearly a woman can be a very skilled and expert dominatrix while still enjoying PIV sex! There's simply no conflict there. And it's ridiculous that in some communities, even the rumor that a domme has assisted a client in his orgasm translates to immediate ostracization from the community.

That said, I will admit to sometimes rolling my eyes when a man describes himself as "submissive" and he really means he just wants to have a woman sit on his face for a couple hours. (Not that there's anything wrong with that!) I think it stems from not buying the idea that providing pleasure equals "submission." It's a very gendered and outdated notion....and in fact, I would say that if someone is in control of my pleasure, I am the one who is submissive to them!

[gamma]

Originally Posted by BritneyBangs

I have read books about pro femme dommes where they allow release, but no sex. How its frowned upon and such. It wasn't until I started providing that I learned I was a bit of a sadist. That allowed me to explore bdsm and sensual domination. I guess I understand that mentality of a pro domme, but since I started out providing I am more open minded. I just don't like labels. I think we domme providers should be free to incorporate sex if we like. Especially as a reward after being teased and denied, also for my own pleasure he he. I like to dole out the mind fuck more than anything. Its extremely challenging mentally. Remember when we were kids free to play all types of games and how big our imaginations were? To me, providing domme services is like unleashing an inner child of sorts. Its a great escape. Its fucking theraputic!

I agree. My guess is that there is a bit of elitism for an ego boost in creating "true" and "untrue" bdsm acts.
However, I approach the idea of BDSM as being a function of both the mental and physical each being pushed to the edge to create an interesting head-space. So, the no-sex restriction does not make a lot sense to me.

[Guest032514-1]

I have been reading this with some bit of interest. Seems to me the thread is leading into the very "elitist" attitude that was linked from FetLife (which I haven't read, btw, so it could be worse than I am assuming.)

There is a difference between the BDSM culture and the culture here. I accept that. Just as there needs to be an understanding between sensual BDSM and "real" BDSM and those who practice it.

There may be similarities, but they are not alike.

Again, without reading the fetlife thread; I'll go out on a limb saying the Dominatrix complaints about "prosti-dommes" can be compared to escorts' aggravation with some people insisting that ultraGFE and/or PSE automatically means bareback. It's pretty much thinking along those lines.

Then address the issue that one is 1005 legal while the other ......well, there are bound to be issues.

[lilly_amore]

BDSM for me is about foreplay...i adore a sexy public scene where you can hit "subspace" and play with pain and sensuality while not actually turning it into a porno. At most private parties sex is absolutely acceptable, most lifestylers prefer the SM scenes to be sexy and full of sexual tension, but certainly sex is an aspect of the realm. Each D/s relationship has it's own dynamic. Many times the people who are having a top or bottom play scene in public may not even be lovers, their partner may be enjoying watching them play.

lilly

[cuckold4u]

Originally Posted by TaylorMaiden29

I have been playing the Domme role since I started providing two years ago. In fact, I tend to attract the submissive men whether they want to be tied up or not. When I see a man who has seen Pro-Dommes, they speak of how there is no sex except being allowed to masterbate at the end.

I don't care what they order off of the menu of fetishes a la carte. If they are paying, I will be amused whether or not my clit gets stimulated. If they are paying. However, when I go to lifestyle BDSM parties or even the Southplains Leatherfest Convention in Dallas, I see scenes but no sex. No tease and denial, no forced orgasms, no orgasm denial. I saw instead: beating, canning, cutting, slapping, flogging, cupping............pretty much pain and no pleasure.

Why do lifestylers play with no sex whereas most (95:5 ratio I'd say) of my clients wouldn't come to me if they thought that there would be no sexual tension/release during the session. I also notice that the most regular of my gents come back when the sexual tension starts at the beginning of session and lasts throughout.

I just don't see any of that sexy fun stuff at the lifestyle parties and I wonder WTF?

I went to a party with Devynn Von Tease once, she was my dirty slut. I took her with a strap on and told her to perform like a pornstar. "are you my dirty porn star? Put your pussy in the air and show everyone what a slut you are for Me!" "Yes Mistress!"

The patrons at the party thought we were weird and I never went back.

I agree...sex should be a part of BDSM. I have heard that sex is a big part of BDSM in Europe though I have never been. I used to live in the San Francisco bay area and the debate went on there as well.

[Miss Sophie Bella]

My opinion isn't a popular one among the Pro-Domme crowd, but one doesn't really hang out with those girls to get popular anyhow (I don't really care for the "Dominatrix" title as it is; Mistress of the Kinky Arts or High Priestess of Erotic Terrorism sounds way more fun).

If spanking, teasing, taunting, berating, beating, denying, humiliating, showering and manipulating a willing partner doesn't get you hot and ready to go then I just don't think being a pro Domina is for you. Sex ought to be part of most high-quality BDSM interactions because the Domme (who presumably is the one in charge and the one being pleasured) is incredibly aroused by the situation and wants to be satisfied by her slave, even though he doesn't deserve the honor. And even when those sexy acts aren't things the vanilla world might immediately recognize as "sex" (face sitting, forced orgasms, consensual non-consent, etc), those of us with a salacious imaginations know it when we see it...

[Krunkman]

I'm not a provider, nor a woman, so I can't really speak from the female perspective. I have observed over the years that male and female dominants tend to view sex within the BDSM realm much differently. As one would expect, men tend to interject sexual activities into play on a very, umm, regular basis.. Female dominants, however, tend to deny or reduce sexual activities with male submissives. I have a very dear friend who happens to be a prodomme and she never has sex with her clients. She does, sometimes, use a strapon (tends to be a commonly asked-for activity), and she has let them masturbate and cum before leaving. I once asked her why she didn't want to have oral sex performed on her when she clearly enjoys it and she told me "would you want to lick me when a bunch of other men have?". I realize her view is not shared by many here in this community, and probably quite the opposite I bet.

Prodommes that don't cross the line into the provider territory seem to share a universal belief that sexual relations with a submissive is not something that should be allowed under any circumstances. The logic behind their beliefs seem to vary but seem to generally fall within these categories:
a) no submissive is "good" enough to have sex with them
b) along with the above, a submissive male is not a "man", and therefore is not good enough to have sex with his dominant
c) giving sex to a submissive makes a prodomme no better than a prostitute (and most pro's really, really bristle at that comparison)
d) if you have sex with your submissive, then the session becomes about their needs and desires, not the dommes wants and desires
e) some don't do it because of the legal issues surrounding it
and finally f) BDSM is about power, not sex. If they want sex they should go see a prostitute.

Now of all the reasoning that I've given, the one that baffles me the most is d. The last time I checked, a prodomme is in the business of fulfilling the fantasy of their customer. In my mind having that sort of opinion is like me telling one of my customers "sorry, I won't sell you X because it's not about you and your wants/needs. I will sell you Y and you will take it!". Now if I did that I'm pretty sure I would lose customers, or at the very least not have that many customers. Being a prodomme (or provider) is about servicing and meeting your clients needs and expectations. You can say no, you can negotiate, but at the end of every session its still a transaction that is based at the root of all business - did you satisfy the customer's needs? If you did, chances are they will return. If you didn't, chances are you've lost that customer for good. Like every business, there are deals that you won't make for the right reasons. But never would I run my business with the idea that its about me and not about my customer. That's just dumb. IMHO of course...

[Naaman Fletcher]

Interesting post. I am wildly turned on by the outfits, role play, teasing, etc. but have never even tried this because I would want it to end in sex. Maybe we should meet up!

[Guest091710]

i disagree, sorry it depends on the couple. i wont be teased without the reward, cum slut, pain slut, Daddys girl, whatever, i need cock, and wont just play without being fucked. That is the pleasure in it, and the rest is just foreplay leading up to orgasm.

[blowpop]

Originally Posted by TaylorMaiden29

However, when I go to lifestyle BDSM parties or even the Southplains Leatherfest Convention in Dallas, I see scenes but no sex. No tease and denial, no forced orgasms, no orgasm denial. I saw instead: beating, canning, cutting, slapping, flogging, cupping............pretty much pain and no pleasure.

Why do lifestylers play with no sex whereas most (95:5 ratio I'd say) of my clients wouldn't come to me if they thought that there would be no sexual tension/release during the session.

The presence of sex during BDSM scene parties depends totally on the group. Some are militantly prude (which to me seems rather comical.) Others are much more open to sexuality.

I think the trick is finding the group whose philosophy and outlook is a good fit for yours; there's no right or wrong answer, but there are certainly good or bad fits.

And honestly, I find myself rolling my eyes a anyone who says that their version of BDSM is "true" or "real". In sexuality, there is no black and white, but only a broad, broad spectrum. Members of a fetish community who try to declare what's right or wrong are an obvious case of the pot calling the kettle black.

[blowpop]

Originally Posted by subcilla

i disagree, sorry it depends on the couple. i wont be teased without the reward, cum slut, pain slut, Daddys girl, whatever, i need cock, and wont just play without being fucked. That is the pleasure in it, and the rest is just foreplay leading up to orgasm.

Your philosophy is very well aligned with mine. I love playing with a pet and keeping her on the edge, but I think it is unnecessarily cruel to deny her release after she has served me well. I would much rather see at that point how many orgasms I can take from her.

The rush is from the contrast - going from extreme frustration to extreme satisfaction.

[Guest091710]

Sir,
Oh, uhm You mean orgasm control. i am good for 10 and then i want to pass out or puke. After a while they become torture.