Just a few reminders about Iraq for the willfully blind conservatives

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by timpage

Tell me how any of the shit that is going on right now in the Middle East happens without George W. Bush and Dick Cheney's brilliantly fucked up idea to invade Iraq?

So Timmytard, let's turn the question around. Why don't you tell us how Iraq would look today if we had never invaded? Here is a reminder for willfully blind liberals of where things were going prior to our invasion:


Christopher Hitchens, April 2, 2004:


"A few more years of Saddam Hussein, or perhaps the succession of his charming sons Uday and Qusay, and whole swathes of Iraq would have looked like Fallujah. The Baathists, by playing off tribe against tribe, Arab against Kurd and Sunni against Shiite, were preparing the conditions for a Hobbesian state of affairs. Their looting and beggaring of the state and the society—something about which we now possess even more painfully exact information—was having the same effect. A broken and maimed and traumatized Iraq was in our future no matter what.

Obviously, this prospect could never have been faced with equanimity. Iraq is a regional keystone state with vast resources and many common borders. Its implosion would have created a black hole, sucking in rival and neighboring powers, tempting them with opportunist interventions and encouraging them to find ethnic and confessional proxies. And who knows what the death-throes of the regime would have been like? We are entitled, on past experience, to guess. There could have been deliberate conflagrations started in the oilfields. There might have been suicidal lunges into adjacent countries. The place would certainly have become a playground for every kind of nihilist and fundamentalist. The intellectual and professional classes, already gravely attenuated, would have been liquidated entirely.

All of this was, only just, averted. And it would be a Pangloss who said that the dangers have receded even now. But at least the international intervention came before the whole evil script of Saddam's crime family had been allowed to play out. A subsequent international intervention would have been too little and too late, and we would now be holding an inquest into who let this happen—who in other words permitted in Iraq what Bill Clinton and Madeleine Albright and Kofi Annan permitted in Rwanda, encouraged by the Elysee....

I hope I do not misrepresent my opponents, but their general view seems to be that Iraq was an elective target; a country that would not otherwise have been troubling our sleep. This ahistorical opinion makes it appear that Saddam Hussein was a new enemy, somehow chosen by shady elements within the Bush administration, instead of one of the longest-standing foes with which the United States, and indeed the international community, was faced."


And here is something else you overlook:

Prior to the 2003 invasion, it was the conventional wisdom of our foreign policy elite that Bush the Elder's biggest blunder was allowing Saddam to stay in power after the success of Desert Storm in 1991. By 1998, Congress passed the Iraq Liberation Act declaring "it should be the policy of the United States to seek to remove the Saddam Hussein regime from power in Iraq and replace it with a democratic government." This legislation was endorsed UNANIMOUSLY by Senate Democrats and signed into law by then-President Bill Clinton.

Have you forgotten, timmytard, how for 12 long years prior to our 2003 invasion of Iraq, we were spending billions each year enforcing a no-fly zone? Our sorties were being shot at on a daily basis. UN sanctions were a joke. Their evasion was breeding rampant corruption at the highest levels. Even UN Secy-Gen. Kofi Annan's son was lining his pockets. How long do you think we should have shrugged and continued to tolerate all of this, timmytard?

I had my own misgivings about the Iraq war and the way it was conducted. But I have no patience for the specious arguments of the professional Bush/Cheney haters like you, timmytard. The same people who insisted that we bomb Belgrade in 1998 to stop genocide in Kosovo turned a blind eye to Saddam's genocide, even after we went in and uncovered numerous mass graves. BOTH wars could be justified on humanitarian grounds. The big difference? Bush/Cheney wars are BAD, while Clinton or Obama wars (Libya) are GOOD. This kind of thinking is appalling and dangerous in today's world. Our foreign policy needs to be guided by national interest, not partisan talking points, timmytard.

.

[LexusLover]

Our foreign policy needs to be guided by national interest, not partisan talking points, timmytard.

That's all he and his ilk know. "Talking points"!

[WTF]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

Fixed it for you, wtfParrot.

You and TimidTimmie need to climb on the bench together and hold hands.

Just be calm. It will be over soon.

Facts are a bitch aren't they LL?

The invasion of Iraq strengthened IRAN.

Can you not see that?

We are now trying to make lemonade out of lemons, lemons Bush and Cheney sold you as WhipCream and Cherries.

Originally Posted by timpage

So, while U.S. commanders would have liked to have kept a division or more behind in Iraq to face any contingencies — and, increasingly, Administration figures had begun citing the challenge of Iran, next door — it was Iraqi democracy that put the kibosh on that goal. The Bush Administration had agreed in 2004 to restore Iraqi sovereignty, and in 2005 put the country’s elected government in charge of shaping its destiny. But President Bush hadn’t anticipated that Iraqi democracy would see pro-U.S. parties sidelined and would, instead, consistently return governments closer to Tehran than they are to Washington. Contra expectations, a democratic Iraq has turned out to be at odds with much of U.S. regional strategy — first and foremost its campaign to isolate Iran.
.

[i'va biggen]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

That's all he and his ilk know. "Talking points"!

That is funny seeing the RNC is thinking of changing the elephant for a parrot.

[Yssup Rider]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Have you forgotten, timmytard, how for 12 long years prior to our 2003 invasion of Iraq, we were spending billions each year enforcing a no-fly zone? Our sorties were being shot at on a daily basis. UN sanctions were a joke. Their evasion was breeding rampant corruption at the highest levels. Even UN Secy-Gen. Kofi Annan's son was lining his pockets. How long do you think we should have shrugged and continued to tolerate all of this, timmytard?

.

Mighty big PRONOUNCEMENTS Junior.

Just how many BILLIONS were we spending each year between 1991 and 2003 to enforce a no-fly zone? You may be right, but you may also be full of shit.

I often wonder what this nation would have looked like if we hadn't stuck our Bushy noses in Iraq.

Happier? Healthier? WEALTHIER? Tens of thousands of NOT DEAD people? A more energy efficient America?

Probably all of those things.

[Yssup Rider]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Have you forgotten, timmytard, how for 12 long years prior to our 2003 invasion of Iraq, we were spending billions each year enforcing a no-fly zone? Our sorties were being shot at on a daily basis. UN sanctions were a joke. Their evasion was breeding rampant corruption at the highest levels. Even UN Secy-Gen. Kofi Annan's son was lining his pockets. How long do you think we should have shrugged and continued to tolerate all of this, timmytard?

.

Mighty big PRONOUNCEMENTS Junior.

Just how many BILLIONS were we spending each year between 1991 and 2003 to enforce a no-fly zone? You may be right, but you may also be full of shit. In fact, at best you're both. Because even if you can prove that claim, you're still full of shit, Junior.

I often wonder what this nation would have looked like if he hadn't stuck our Bushy noses in Iraq, Junior.

Happier? Healthier? WEALTHIER? Tens of thousands of NOT DEAD people?

Probably all of those things.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by WTF

Facts are a bitch aren't they LL?

The invasion of Iraq strengthened IRAN.

LittleBenchBoy.. that's not a "fact" ... that is an "opinion" ...

.... and coming from you .. not worth much.

What "strenthens" Iran is the KNOWLEDGE that this country will do nothing to stop their efforts to develop a nuclear warhead manufacturing capacity and marry it to a delivery system capable of reaching any where in Europe.

The same with North Korea, except they are looking at our West Coast.

(And the Obaminables are "thinking" about 'retiring" in Hawaii!!!)

The inability of YOUR MAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE to carry through with his threats, that is what emboldens them and "strengthens" them. All your other rhetoric is just bullshit to excuse the incompetence and whimpiness of YOUR MAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE, and figure out something else to blame on Bush and Cheney. It's weak and over used.

Go sit on the bench

..... and whine some more about how much this is going to cost.

Oh, yea, hold TimidTimmie's hand. He needs the comforting.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by timpage

Fucking bingo. Tell me how it's not. Tell me how any of the shit that is going on right now in the Middle East happens without George W. Bush and Dick Cheney's brilliantly fucked up idea to invade Iraq?

Try not to speak in slogans.

The dim-retard on the far right of this picture had a great deal more to do with the mess over there than W, Little Timmy-tard. He was almost -- but not quite -- as naive as the unqualified jackass you elected in 2008 and 2012, Little Timmy-tard.

[JD Barleycorn]

Lets say this, in 2008 John McCain was elected president of the United States. The Secretary of State working with Vice President Palin negoiated the Status of Forces agreement with Iraq in 2011. 30,000 American troops (along with 5,000 allied troops) would establish five major bases inside of Iraq. Prime Minister Maliki complained of US interference but he finally gave in and selected Sunni's for his government and military. There is no ISIS, Iraq is relatively peaceful, women have just had a government proclamation guaranteeing them full civil rights. The Iraqi army (with American advisors) is guarding the borders with Iran and Syria. Every once in a while a group of malcontents declare themselves some kind of Islamic army but a quickly dealt with. The Kurdish people are working towards making themselves an autonomous area but still part of Iraq. Good thing that Obama didn't win the election.

[LexusLover]

Shit happens over there based on "perceptions" and "mixed signals" ... Example:

"Saddam Hussein - If we could keep the whole of the Shatt al Arab – our strategic goal in our war with Iran – we will make concessions (to the Kuwaitis). But, if we are forced to choose between keeping half of the Shatt and the whole of Iraq (i.e., in Saddam s view, including Kuwait ) then we will give up all of the Shatt to defend our claims on Kuwait to keep the whole of Iraq in the shape we wish it to be. (pause) What is the United States’ opinion on this?

"U.S. Ambassador Glaspie – We have no opinion on your Arab – Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960′s, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America. (Saddam smiles)"

http://www.globalresearch.ca/gulf-wa...-glaspie/31145

In the barn-yard of the Middle East (and much of the rest of the world) the "weak chicken" is going to get plucked and fucked. Those folks outside of the U.S. look at our polls, see a "weak chicken" in the White House, and will respond accordingly.

Unfortunately for the U.S. citizens too many times the current President and his mealy mouthed "team" have threatened and then retreated. They have ZERO credibility among our enemies AND OUR ALLIES. They are not to be trusted, with GOOD REASON.

Here's YOUR MAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE (To the Obaminable Loyalists):

"President Obama: On all these issues, but particularly missile defense, this, this can be solved but it’s important for him to give me space.

"President Medvedev: Yeah, I understand. I understand your message about space. Space for you…

"President Obama: This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility.

"President Medvedev: I understand. I will transmit this information to Vladimir."
http://www.nationalreview.com/campai...-my-reelection

[timpage]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Lets say this, in 2008 John McCain was elected president of the United States. The Secretary of State working with Vice President Palin negoiated the Status of Forces agreement with Iraq in 2011. 30,000 American troops (along with 5,000 allied troops) would establish five major bases inside of Iraq. Prime Minister Maliki complained of US interference but he finally gave in and selected Sunni's for his government and military. There is no ISIS, Iraq is relatively peaceful, women have just had a government proclamation guaranteeing them full civil rights. The Iraqi army (with American advisors) is guarding the borders with Iran and Syria. Every once in a while a group of malcontents declare themselves some kind of Islamic army but a quickly dealt with. The Kurdish people are working towards making themselves an autonomous area but still part of Iraq. Good thing that Obama didn't win the election.

We'll set aside the laughable idea that Vice-President Palin (I can't even type it without chortling) would be capable of negotiating a used car purchase much less a "status of forces" agreement......

Let's say this: that George Bush and Dick Cheney didn't make up a shitload of lies to justify the invasion of Iraq and that it never happened? 5,000 US service men and women wouldn't be dead, tens of thousands more wouldn't have been wounded, we wouldn't have spent a trillion dollars on that shithole of a country, there would be no ISIS or ISIL or any other force invading and taking over parts of Iraq and Syria and on and on and on.....and, we wouldn't be talking about exposing 30,000 US troopers to IED's and getting their heads sliced off for the foreseeable future to the tune of several billion dollars every years.

Dunce.

[timpage]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

Shit happens over there based on "perceptions" and "mixed signals" ... Example:

"Saddam Hussein - If we could keep the whole of the Shatt al Arab – our strategic goal in our war with Iran – we will make concessions (to the Kuwaitis). But, if we are forced to choose between keeping half of the Shatt and the whole of Iraq (i.e., in Saddam s view, including Kuwait ) then we will give up all of the Shatt to defend our claims on Kuwait to keep the whole of Iraq in the shape we wish it to be. (pause) What is the United States’ opinion on this?

"U.S. Ambassador Glaspie – We have no opinion on your Arab – Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960′s, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America. (Saddam smiles)"

http://www.globalresearch.ca/gulf-wa...-glaspie/31145

In the barn-yard of the Middle East (and much of the rest of the world) the "weak chicken" is going to get plucked and fucked. Those folks outside of the U.S. look at our polls, see a "weak chicken" in the White House, and will respond accordingly.

Unfortunately for the U.S. citizens too many times the current President and his mealy mouthed "team" have threatened and then retreated. They have ZERO credibility among our enemies AND OUR ALLIES. They are not to be trusted, with GOOD REASON.

Here's YOUR MAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE (To the Obaminable Loyalists):

"President Obama: On all these issues, but particularly missile defense, this, this can be solved but it’s important for him to give me space.

"President Medvedev: Yeah, I understand. I understand your message about space. Space for you…

"President Obama: This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility.

"President Medvedev: I understand. I will transmit this information to Vladimir."
http://www.nationalreview.com/campai...-my-reelection

You live in an alternate universe without any connection to reality. What exactly is it that you would have President Obama do that you believe would influence the way the fanatics in the Middle East view America? We just finished invading Iraq and fighting a war that lasted almost a decade. We still have troops on the ground in Afghanistan, we're droning the shit out of every terrorist leader or gathering we can find, we're launching airstrikes on ISIS/ISIL even as I type this, we're ramping up to start similar operations in Syria.....and on and on and on.

You're an idiot.

[i'va biggen]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Lets say this, in 2008 John McCain was elected president of the United States. The Secretary of State working with Vice President Palin negoiated the Status of Forces agreement with Iraq in 2011. 30,000 American troops (along with 5,000 allied troops) would establish five major bases inside of Iraq. Prime Minister Maliki complained of US interference but he finally gave in and selected Sunni's for his government and military. There is no ISIS, Iraq is relatively peaceful, women have just had a government proclamation guaranteeing them full civil rights. The Iraqi army (with American advisors) is guarding the borders with Iran and Syria. Every once in a while a group of malcontents declare themselves some kind of Islamic army but a quickly dealt with. The Kurdish people are working towards making themselves an autonomous area but still part of Iraq. Good thing that Obama didn't win the election.

LOL vice president Palin and family were just in a brawl. Todd got a bloody nose while Sara screamed "don't you know who I am". Bristol was the only one with a good right hook. The family was asked to leave. While somebody said" this ain't no hillbilly reality show"

[boardman]

Originally Posted by i'va biggen

LOL vice president Palin and family were just in a brawl. Todd got a bloody nose while Sara screamed "don't you know who I am". Bristol was the only one with a good right hook. The family was asked to leave. While somebody said" this ain't no hillbilly reality show"

And them there is some "real Mericans"!

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by timpage

You live in an alternate universe without any connection to reality.

Spoken like a true, impaired liberal. No one else is in your "reality." Right?

And worse than that. No one is as smart as you are. Right?

After you "dry out" you can decipher what you just posted.

That will take a while it appears.

First try to find the "yellow" line YOUR MAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE drew on the ground in Syria .... the one they were not SUPPOSED to cross.