Obama's Gift to Taxpayers - Continued

[Roshibear]

What is about people like you who always want to throw your own feces in other people's faces? Your whole reality is predicated on conflict, and you constantly need to create it in your life, carving out an "us" and "them". Driven by deeply subtreanan emotions you rationalize a world view. Instead of spending effort becoming a sound rational creature you cleverly rationalize fictions that serve your deeper emotional needs. I know introspection and self honesty can be painful requiring strength and courage-- it's much easier to project out onto the world rather than letting it infom us.
Arguing with you would be futile-- one can't argue with someone's pathology. Nevertheless the kindest thing I can do for you is call you out on your bullshit, even if there is dim hope it will lead you to any conscious realization of this trip you are on.... This is really something the moderators should consider a banning offense as no one here should be subjected to somebody else's pathological feces, especially when it is unsolicited and so far off topic.

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Oil prices continue to spike under Obama....

Today's WTI crude oil price: $95.03

When Bush left office: $35.31

This inept slacker is driving our economy into the ditch...and he wants the keys to the car for four more years???

As always my source: http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/Lea...PET&s=RWTC&f=D

Whirlaway those articles are msileading- no President can control oil prices- they are set globally most of it by OPEC even the CEO's of the major oil companies testified to congress that they can't control the oil market. Also, when Bush left office the oil was at $35.31????? Are you kidding me? Oil hit hundred dollars a barrell several times under Bush- with the highest being 147 at one point? Are you saying under the majority of Bush years gasoline was cheap? There are too many factors that contributes to the price and rise of oil. If Oil was $35.31 when Bush left than how did it peak to $4 dollars a gallon for the majority of 2008???? Also, you can't have it both ways- if Obama doesn't release from the strategic oil reserves than the prices will rise due to OPEC nations not producing more oil- if he releases the reserves the gas prices go down- so which one do you want?
Whirlaway- correct me if I am wrong but was I imagining something when during the Bush years I was paying close to $4.00 for gas? Also, tell me what policy Bush passed that caused lower oil barrell prices??? You won't be able to because honestly the only way you can reduce oil prices is if OPEC outputs far more than average or if the U.S releases from the strategic reserve- for anyone to say Obama is the cause of high oil prices or Bush was the cause is being ignorant- if you want to blame anyone for high gas prices- blame OPEC and blame ourselves for depending on this black gold instead of investing in any alternative forms of energy. During the campaign in 2008 Palin and McCain were all about drill baby drill- it's sad that you guys are so politically brainwashed either to the right or left that you feed into the bullshit that Faux news and MSNBC feeds you- but Faux news is a flat out joke.

[Whirlaway]

Actually the current high oil prices ARE directly because of Obama and his war in Libya. With the Libyian oil off the market oil prices have increased - FACT. Here are a couple of articles on the subject.

If you choose to ignore them, so be it.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/libya...ry?id=12969136

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12548471

http://community.nasdaq.com/News/201...?storyid=60732

And true, Presidents can't "control" oil prices but their policies (both domestic and international have impacts), so your statement that "no President can control oil prices" is more misleading than the articles which I posted.

[Whirlaway]

Wow...another liberal who rather than debate issues and facts just goes off on some rant about how my threads should be closed. I am not suprised. It is what the left does. They rant, ridicule then demand nobody's but their own viewpoint be heard.

Originally Posted by Roshibear

What is about people like you who always want to throw your own feces in other people's faces? Your whole reality is predicated on conflict, and you constantly need to create it in your life, carving out an "us" and "them". Driven by deeply subtreanan emotions you rationalize a world view. Instead of spending effort becoming a sound rational creature you cleverly rationalize fictions that serve your deeper emotional needs. I know introspection and self honesty can be painful requiring strength and courage-- it's much easier to project out onto the world rather than letting it infom us.
Arguing with you would be futile-- one can't argue with someone's pathology. Nevertheless the kindest thing I can do for you is call you out on your bullshit, even if there is dim hope it will lead you to any conscious realization of this trip you are on.... This is really something the moderators should consider a banning offense as no one here should be subjected to somebody else's pathological feces, especially when it is unsolicited and so far off topic.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Wow...another liberal who rather than debate issues and facts just goes off on some rant about how my threads should be closed. I am not suprised. It is what the left does. They rant, ridicule then demand nobody's but their own viewpoint be heard.

I'm actually starting to feel a little sorry for you. You're just too whacked out to not be a bit whacked out.

James Loughner, anybody?

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Actually the current high oil prices ARE directly because of Obama and his war in Libya. With the Libyian oil off the market oil prices have increased - FACT. Here are a couple of articles on the subject.

If you choose to ignore them, so be it.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/libya...ry?id=12969136

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12548471

http://community.nasdaq.com/News/201...?storyid=60732

And true, Presidents can't "control" oil prices but their policies (both domestic and international have impacts), so your statement that "no President can control oil prices" is more misleading than the articles which I posted.

War with Libya and there's not a single American boot on Libyan soil and you all that a war? Again wrong- the Libyan rebellion would have happened either way- with U.s involvement or not- so that argument is weak. Also, during the early stages of the Libyan turmoil- Ghadaffi said he was going murder everyone in that town that had rebelled against the government- now had Obama done nothing and Ghadaffi massacred thousands of citizens you guys would be saying Obama was weak on international policy and let a craze man massacre thousands.
I can post a million articles where it clearly states that OPEC sets the prices- google the cEO's of the big oil companies when they testified- they said that OIL prices are determined by various global factors that they can't control. are you telling me if the Libyan riots and rebellion never happened Oil would be $1 a gallon or the cheapest ever? I know you are smarter than that Whirlaway. so who was to blame from 2005 to 2008 when oil prices were getting out of hand?

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Wow...another liberal who rather than debate issues and facts just goes off on some rant about how my threads should be closed. I am not suprised. It is what the left does. They rant, ridicule then demand nobody's but their own viewpoint be heard.

Whirlaway I have no bone to pick in this but I can post just as many articles to dispute what you have posted- if you think GOP has the answer to all the worlds problems and that liberals are wrong on everything or if you are liberal and think GOP is evil and have all the wrong answers you guys really have some issues. The fact of the matter is that both Dems and GOP politcians have fucked up this country.
Whirlaway there's no easy fix- if you think in 2008 that had McCain/Palin won that right now we would have a booming economy and dirt cheap gas prices than I have some ocean front property to sell you. Also, I hate to bust your bubble you are someone who I call a friend- but the only way Obama loses next November is if a Depression hits us in 2012 which I seriously doubt- because none of those ass clowns that are running for the GOP nod have a snowballs chance in hell of dethroning him- sorry just the facts. If all the GOP can say is elect me and I will create jobs that's not going to do it- I honestly blame both parties for this fuck up especially the congress- this congress won't do the right thing because many of think if they make the right choices it will make one of the other parties look "good" and that's truly sad.

[Whirlaway]

Wellendowed: If you have read my posts you would know that I didn't vote for nor did I like the polcies of Bush. And I am not a Republican. And I absolutley think both parties have screwed middle class America. I didn't vote for McCain and most likely will not vote the Republican that gets the nomination.

I actually think Obama can easily be beat by most of the Republican field. This country is bad shape and the electorate will punish Obama because of it. Obama could have improved his chances had he moved to the middle (in reality not rhetoric) but he didn't. The guy is an idealogue who wants to craft a european Socialist style government for the US - more debt, more taxes, more regulation, less individual responsibilities, less states rights, more federalism, more dependence on a centralized government with buracrats who make the improtant decisions for us.

[Whirlaway]

I get it; but I don't buy the "its not a war" mantra. The Obama WH has to say that to preseve their executive powers regarding the war act.

I don't deny that OPEC sets oil prices. But those price fixes are based on a number of factors inlcuding geo-political considerations.

If you want to believe that the White House has no powers to influcence flucutations in oil prices set by OPEC go ahead, but that isn't reality. Obama doesn't agree with you. His recent release of the oil reserves was his attempt to influence oil prices. And the oil workers in the Gulf of Mexico don't agree with you. They think the price of oil is higher partially because Obama has shut down gulf exploration and drilling.

Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

War with Libya and there's not a single American boot on Libyan soil and you all that a war? Again wrong.....I can post a million articles where it clearly states that OPEC sets the prices- google the cEO's of the big oil companies when they testified- they said that OIL prices are determined by various global factors that they can't control. are you telling me if the Libyan riots and rebellion never happened Oil would be $1 a gallon or the cheapest ever? I know you are smarter than that Whirlaway. so who was to blame from 2005 to 2008 when oil prices were getting out of hand?

[googol^googol]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Do you dispute the prices that are listed on the US Energy Administration link I provided?

It's ok to call BS on me; but please have your facts, not some antedoatal remberance of them........

It is not necessary to dispute the facts. Here they are:
(None of these prices adjusted for inflation.)

WTI crude oil price
below $20 - through the 80's
$41 - spike in 1990
below $20 - the majority of the '90's

$32 - Bush takes office
4 - # of weeks above $50 during first term:
(The month of October preceding the 2004 election)

$47 - beginning of second term
196 of 208/ 94% - # of weeks above $50 during second term
64 of 208/ 31% - # of weeks above $75 during second term
30 of 208/ 14% - # of weeks above $100 during second term

(Of the 12 weeks in which the weekly price was below $50, four were the first weeks of Bush's second term, then once in mid-May 2005. Oil would not be below $50/barrel until the last seven weeks of Bush's administration, from Dec. 2008 through Jan. 2009. The week before Obama took office had the second lowest crude oil prices since February 2004.)

$38.57 - Obama takes office
118 of 128/ 92% - # of weeks above $50
73 of 128/ 57% - # of weeks above $75
12 of 128/ 9% - # of weeks above $100

(The five weeks before Obama's inauguration were the only weeks the average price was below $44 in Bush's second term. The 10 weeks below $50 were in the first 14 weeks of Obama's administration. Those low prices came from the Great Recession when demand dried up.)

Quarterly average
$50 Q1 2005
$53 Q2 2005
$63 Q3 2005
$60 Q4 2005
$63 Q1 2006
$71 Q2 2006
$70 Q3 2006
$60 Q4 2006
$58 Q1 2007
$65 Q2 2007
$75 Q3 2007
$91 Q4 2007
$98 Q1 2008
$123 Q2 2008
$119 Q3 2008
$60 Q4 2008

$43 Q1 2009
$59 Q2 2009
$68 Q3 2009
$75 Q4 2009
$79 Q1 2010
$78 Q2 2010
$76 Q3 2010
$85 Q4 2010
$93 Q1 2011
$102 Q2 2011

These are the facts. I call BS.

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Wellendowed: If you have read my posts you would know that I didn't vote for nor did I like the polcies of Bush. And I am not a Republican. And I absolutley think both parties have screwed middle class America. I didn't vote for McCain and most likely will not vote the Republican that gets the nomination.

I actually think Obama can easily be beat by most of the Republican field. This country is bad shape and the electorate will punish Obama because of it. Obama could have improved his chances had he moved to the middle (in reality not rhetoric) but he didn't. The guy is an idealogue who wants to craft a european Socialist style government for the US - more debt, more taxes, more regulation, less individual responsibilities, less states rights, more federalism, more dependence on a centralized government with buracrats who make the improtant decisions for us.

Whirlaway is having ffordable health care socialist? Actually Obama has implemented more individual responsibilities than the Bush Administration. What are some of the good things you like about Obama
Whirlaway here's a question I asked a lot of people who don't like Obama:
If Obama is so bad why are we not in a depression??? Let's face it when he took office on day 1 the economy was on the verge of destruction and two things could have happened: 1) the economy could have went into a depression had his administration made the "wrong" decision or 2) the economy could have rebounded which it has albeit slowly.
Whirlaway you can't tell me the economy isn't stronger today than the day Bush left office because the facts say otherwise. This was no easy fix and you should now that- are you telling me that{insert any candidate of your choice} would have this economy booming had he/she been in office? There's no quick fix- did Ronald Reagan turn around the economy in his 4 years after he took it over from the disaster Carter left him? No, in fact Reagan saw great results his 2nd term- you don't fix a recession over night especially a global recession.

[Chica Chaser]

Thing aren't that great everywhere. Come out west here, you will see the economy has done very little rebounding. Once you get out of the oil/energy patch in TX/NM/CO it goes downhill quickly. Things are booming in many areas because gas is above $3.50 /gallon

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by Chica Chaser

Things are booming in many areas . . .

There for minute, I thought you might be talking about Ayers and Dohrn.

[cptjohnstone]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

This is the dumbest reply to an arguement I have ever read.....

you have to forgive him, he went to ou

[Whirlaway]

Wellendowed: Thanks for one of the more intelligent approaches to this thread............here is my reply.

Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

Whirlaway is having affordable health care socialist?

Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

Obamacare is not affordable and it is Obama's first step towards his goal of national single-payer system (his words) which is a socialist goal. Obama made an arrogant decison early-on to turnover his healthcare agenda to Pelosi-Reid; substantially altering our health care system without bi-partisan support. Had he adopted some of the opposing side changes (Malpractice tort reform, interstate purchasing, and other ideas) He could have easily had bi-partisan support; but he said screw you America I won, I get what I want. He is now paying the poltical price, partly, because of his Obamacare. I believe in affordable healthcare. Obamacare is not affordable. It is another federal entitlement that we can not afford.

Actually Obama has implemented more individual responsibilities than the Bush Administration. What are some of the good things you like about Obama. I like that America elected its first African American President in my lifetime; I am disappointed that he campaigned one way and has governed completely different. We were sold a Manchurian candidate by media ass kissers who didn't do their job in thoroughly vetting this guy. I would like to know what "individual responsibilities he implemented." If, by example, you mean mandates, then I have to tell you that mandate a specific activity is not what I mean by individual responsibilities. More federal mandates mean more government control; more bureaucratic decisions and oversight, less individual freedoms. Can you give me some examples of what you mean by "Obama's has implemented more individual responsibilities than..."

Whirlaway here's a question I asked a lot of people who don't like Obama:
If Obama is so bad why are we not in a depression??? The financial rescue package that saved the banking system was TARP; which was crafted and approved under Bush. TARP saved the banking system from collapsing in on itself. The legislation, additional bailouts and regulatory environment that followed up TARP (in the Obama administration), have not helped the economy, and have hurt the recovery. Almost all TARP funds have been repaid w/ interest by the banks. It was a good plan, it was conceived and signed into law by Bush. It had broad bi-partisan agreement; unlike Obamacare and other Obama policies and plans.

Let's face it when he took office on day 1 the economy was on the verge of destruction and two things could have happened: 1) the economy could have went into a depression had his administration made the "wrong" decision or 2) the economy could have rebounded which it has albeit slowly.
Whirlaway you can't tell me the economy isn't stronger today than the day Bush left office because the facts say otherwise. TARP, a plan signed into law by Bush saved the banking system and prevented the collapse.

This was no easy fix and you should now that- I never said there was an easy fix; what I said is that Obama's fixes are outside the mainstream of America, socialist oriented, and are intended to transform our country and economy to the left. I favor fixes that encourage opportunity, place greater reliance on individual choices, individual responsibilities, and embrace freer markets and a freer open society. Not a greater centralized government.

are you telling me that{insert any candidate of your choice} would have this economy booming had he/she been in office? Booming No ! But I believe the Obama agenda has hindered its recovery. Small and big business are saying so.

There's no quick fix- did Ronald Reagan turn around the economy in his 4 years after he took it over from the disaster Carter left him? No, in fact Reagan saw great results his 2nd term- you don't fix a recession over night especially a global recession. Agree, no quick fix but there is right track-wrong track; Obama is on the wrong track.