Are You Seeing What I'm Seeing?

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Ouch! Didn't expect an attack from you, Kayla. Whatever.

area 51 needs a new gate keeper .. problem solved.

[CuteOldGuy]

I understand now. I think it's a compliment.

[LovingKayla]

wait... attack? NO NO NO. A new forum for conspiracy only. That would be a blast.

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by vkmaster

OK SEE, please give me your take, on what is the difference between Sunni and Shite...and not in terms of some wiki historical definition...but in the context of current situations

As it was explained to me Sunnis are to Protestantism as Shites are to Catholicism. The Shites go through their religious hierarchy vs Sunnis have no fixed hierarchy. I do not know if Shites have to go through the hierarchy to be with their God or not or if Sunnis can commune with their God anywhere.

After Mohammad died there was a split dealing with who should succeed Mohammad. Something about who was most deserving and bloodlines. The one that split off was I THINK Shite. I don't know the details.

I do not know if there are multiple sub-sects of Sunnis like Protestantism and limited sub-sects of Shite like the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church.

This is all I know about the delineations between the two major sects of Islam.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

the american flag image, that kinda looks like the KKK. pointy head and robe......

Abu Ghraib.

Originally Posted by SEE3772

Yeah, America is full of racist idiots. I think that was one of the points the artist is trying to express. Black, White, Hispanic... etc.
After 9/11, over night... a lot of Americans were, and still are
racist towards Muslims. I bet most don't even know the difference between a Sunni or a Shiite Muslim. All they know is what the government tells them, sad! Divide and Conquer.

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

As it was explained to me Sunnis are to Protestantism as Shites are to Catholicism. The Shites go through their religious hierarchy vs Sunnis have no fixed hierarchy. I do not know if Shites have to go through the hierarchy to be with their God or not or if Sunnis can commune with their God anywhere.

After Mohammad died there was a split dealing with who should succeed Mohammad. Something about who was most deserving and bloodlines. The one that split off was I THINK Shite. I don't know the details.

There was a veritable civil war. The Sunni won.

The Shiites believe that only God has the right to choose a representative to safeguard Islam, the Quran and sharia. Thus the Shiites look to Ali, Muhammad's son-in-law, whom they consider divinely appointed, as the rightful successor to Muhammad, and the first imam. The Shia extend this belief to Muhammad's family, the Ahl al-Bayt ("the People of the House"), and certain individuals among his descendants, known as imams, who have special spiritual and political authority over the community. [wiki]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

I do not know if there are multiple sub-sects of Sunnis like Protestantism and limited sub-sects of Shite like the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church.

This is all I know about the delineations between the two major sects of Islam.

There are other sects, such as the Sufi.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_sects

[LovingKayla]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

and laughs hysterically at "poop" jokes. Typical playground intellect.

Oh come on cutie!! You don't still laugh at poop jokes? I do. There you have it. My great sin.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by SEE3772

Yeah, America is full of racist idiots. I think that was one of the points the artist is trying to express. Black, White, Hispanic... etc.
After 9/11, over night... a lot of Americans were, and still are
racist towards Muslims. I bet most don't even know the difference between a Sunni or a Shiite Muslim. All they know is what the government tells them, sad! Divide and Conquer.

I know they're all Muslims and they all hate America and Israel. The subtle distinctions, between the two, don't matter to me. It's like the difference between the SS and the Gestapo.

[Sidewinder]

Olivia, when Muhammad kicked the bucket, there was an internal ruckus over who should succeed him as the leader of the movement. One faction wanted it to be Muhammad's son. This faction became the Shi'ites. The other faction, who had more money, wanted it to be someone weak, who would be more understanding to their more worldly concerns about making money. This faction became the Sunnis. A very strong argument can be made for the Shi'ites being the legitimate heirs and leaders of Islam. The argument is even stronger than the corresponding one about the Pope being the head of all Christianity, as the Shi'ites never had the equivalent of the Great Schism between the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church.

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by Sidewinder

Olivia, when Muhammad kicked the bucket, there was an internal ruckus over who should succeed him as the leader of the movement. One faction wanted it to be Muhammad's son. This faction became the Shi'ites. The other faction, who had more money, wanted it to be someone weak, who would be more understanding to their more worldly concerns about making money. This faction became the Sunnis. A very strong argument can be made for the Shi'ites being the legitimate heirs and leaders of Islam. The argument is even stronger than the corresponding one about the Pope being the head of all Christianity, as the Shi'ites never had the equivalent of the Great Schism between the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church.

interesting point you make with the 2 religious factions.

Before there was a protestant reformation, the Gnostics were the opposite to Roman Catholics in terms of interpretation and succession. there is a similarity between Roman Catholics/Gnostics and Shiite/Sunnis in terms of organisation structure and purpose as defined by religious beliefs.

Roman Catholics = Shiite = Organized religion
Gnostics = Sunni = Unorganized

oddly enough, they are also similar in a dis-similar way (flip floppy way)

Roman Catholics = Sunni = money & power
Gnostics = Shiite = religion
Greek Orthodox = Shiite = religion & money & power

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by Sidewinder

....the Shi'ites never had the equivalent of the Great Schism between the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church.

actually, that's not quite right. the schism is between 2 main muslim faiths, sunnis & shiites, but the schism was not bloody enough (on the scale that Europe went thru during the reformation wars) to cause a change of thinking.

[Guest102513-1]

THANKS Olivia, for your insight!!!

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by Sidewinder

Olivia, when Muhammad kicked the bucket, there was an internal ruckus over who should succeed him as the leader of the movement. One faction wanted it to be Muhammad's son. This faction became the Shi'ites. The other faction, who had more money, wanted it to be someone weak, who would be more understanding to their more worldly concerns about making money. This faction became the Sunnis. A very strong argument can be made for the Shi'ites being the legitimate heirs and leaders of Islam. The argument is even stronger than the corresponding one about the Pope being the head of all Christianity, as the Shi'ites never had the equivalent of the Great Schism between the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church.

Thank you and Dilbert for the added information. It all comes down to money sadly.

I know I should know more about the history, teaching and dogma of Islam; I just don't. The total lack of respect for women's rights and freedoms by the Arabic, for cultural reasons, and Islamic, for religious reasons, worlds to be quite honest are what have led me to not pursue a deep knowledge and understanding of their religion and God.

Originally Posted by vkmaster

THANKS Olivia, for your insight!!!

I'm not sure how to take your comment. You asked if anyone knew the difference between the Sunnies and the Shites. I answered it. I do know the difference. I don't know the details obviously, but I know the broad strokes. Did you know the difference?

[Sidewinder]

Olivia, the biggest PRACTICAL difference, aside from the fact that they hate each others guts and LIVE for the day when the infidels will all be conquered so they can get down the serious business of slaughtering each other...

Shi'ites believe in a limited-term "trial marriage". For all practical purposes, it exists to legalize prostitution. The customer marries the provider at the beginning of the session, and divorces her at the end. The marriage ceremony is brief but absolutely legal: If the customer dies before saying the magic Muslim divorce phrase three times, the provider is legally his widow, and inherits, according to the laws of Islam.

Sunnis do not believe in this.

There is also the principle of taqqiya. Originally, it was a rule that allowed Shi'ites to lie and say they were Sunnis, if the lie was necessary to keep a Sunni from cutting their head off. It now means that a Muslim of any stripe may lie to an infidel, or another Muslim, if the lie serves the purpose of spreading and fostering the growth of Islam.

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by Sidewinder

Olivia, the biggest PRACTICAL difference, aside from the fact that they hate each others guts and LIVE for the day when the infidels will all be conquered so they can get down the serious business of slaughtering each other...

Shi'ites believe in a limited-term "trial marriage". For all practical purposes, it exists to legalize prostitution. The customer marries the provider at the beginning of the session, and divorces her at the end. The marriage ceremony is brief but absolutely legal: If the customer dies before saying the magic Muslim divorce phrase three times, the provider is legally his widow, and inherits, according to the laws of Islam.

Sunnis do not believe in this.

There is also the principle of taqqiya. Originally, it was a rule that allowed Shi'ites to lie and say they were Sunnis, if the lie was necessary to keep a Sunni from cutting their head off. It now means that a Muslim of any stripe may lie to an infidel, or another Muslim, if the lie serves the purpose of spreading and fostering the growth of Islam.

hm that's a new one for me on that bit of taqqiya. I knew about lying to the infidel bit, but didn't know that part about lying to other muslims of different faiths as justification.

one thing the Sunnis don't believe in but the Shiites do, the so called 12th Imman. the arrival of the 12th Imman is supposed to bring about the end times.

[dilbert firestorm]

your welcome olivia!