P-411 Alert?

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by Paven

Some ladies only see fellas with a p411 account then a fella would need to sign up for it if he wants to see those particular ladies.

There is an abundance of ladies that insist on P411 or references and say they screen.

I have never provided personal information of any kind for the purpose of seeing a provider and never will.

and I have no problem booking and seeing ladies. even those that insist on screening.

It is very easy to bypass requests for screening.

especially in the current economy.

[Paven]

Well surely you shouldn't pay for anything that you feel you wont get any use out of. You've found what works for you best and that's what it's about. We all have our ways of doing things and what might work for one individual might not necessarily work for another. Aren't options wonderful?

Sorry I forgot to put it in quotes, this was for Mr. homer13, thank you.

[Paven]

Originally Posted by Whispers

There is an abundance of ladies that insist on P411 or references and say they screen.

I have never provided personal information of any kind for the purpose of seeing a provider and never will.

and I have no problem booking and seeing ladies. even those that insist on screening.

It is very easy to bypass requests for screening.

especially in the current economy.

In regard to your last statement, I am sure that this is true, unfortunate but true. I personally will not take that risk, I screen everyone the same, p411 account, eccie account, TER account, Date-check account, BP inquiry what have you. My safety is first and foremost before the all mighty dollar. The fellas that inquire with me appreciate the fact that I do screen, it shows that I have regard for myself and them.

[homer13]

Originally Posted by Paven

Well surely you shouldn't pay for anything that you feel you wont get any use out of. You've found what works for you best and that's what it's about. We all have our ways of doing things and what might work for one individual might not necessarily work for another. Aren't options wonderful?

Sorry I forgot to put it in quotes, this was for Mr. homer13, thank you.

You're are indeed right. Options are wonderful.

[homer13]

Originally Posted by Whispers

There is an abundance of ladies that insist on P411 or references and say they screen.

I have never provided personal information of any kind for the purpose of seeing a provider and never will.

and I have no problem booking and seeing ladies. even those that insist on screening.

It is very easy to bypass requests for screening.

especially in the current economy.

I agree 100%. I never have given out any info and never will. At this point if I need to be screened then I need to find a new lady. Hasn't been an issue though with anyone I've wanted to see.

[GinaXXX]

The email that went out was NOT sent by me.

P-411.com (note the dash) is NOT my domain.

I'm in Canada, I have to follow the laws in Canada, and in this country (Canada) we do not consider what consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedrooms to be the slightest bit newsworthy or criminal.

Please email me if you have any questions or concerns. But please know, someone who hates me is just trying to make my life a living hell. Rest assured though, I've lived through MUCH worse then this (the same person posted a bunch of P411 ripoff reports a couple years ago, just google and you'll find them, so this really isn't anything new) and my loyalties lie with my income.

Sincerely,
Gina

[GneissGuy]

Originally Posted by nuglet

gina@p-411.com
well here is the address I got the email from.. that doesn't jive with the above statement AT ALL ROVER!!! I know how to follow a like, and to find IP addresses..
the cover-up seems more suspicious than the original story.

How do you know the e-mail actually came from "gina@p-411.com?" It's easy to change the "source" e-mail address and make it appear as if it came from "barack.obama@whitehouse.g ov" or any other address, if you want to.

Even the IP information in the headers of the e-mail can be faked to some extent. In theory, the real source will be in there somewhere, but it can be pretty difficult to figure out where it really came from.

[ThatHarleyGuy]

I have dealt with Gina on other matters. I trust her. I trust her more than most of the local rabble-rowzers. I've been a member for many years, and consider it a valuable tool, as well as a great alternative source of provider listings. I did not receive the message. If you were in the loop on the server overload attack they experienced you'd know she doesn't keep any of the personal identification used in your initial screening. There is nothing in her operation to tie your civilian identity to your hobby accounts unless you haven't seperated those worlds yourself. That is also why P411 has no auto-renewal function. She refuses to keep any of our info, even for billing purposes. Everything is destroyed. Nothing goes into the site database except your hobby-world profile info. A USDOJ would have to use other means of connecting you to your hobby profile.

If I were one of you that received it, I'd be more concerned with figuring out where you "go" that a bunch of hobby addresses were harvested from.

[The Rover]

Well said That Harley Guy !

[davephx]

Originally Posted by GinaXXX

I'm in Canada, I have to follow the laws in Canada, and in this country (Canada) we do not consider what consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedrooms to be the slightest bit newsworthy or criminal.
Gina

I got involved as a well known advocate thought it was for real and sent me the e-mail which I thought important enough to distribute to about 400 folks on my Phoenix private list about 4:30 AM

However within a few hours I retracted and updated it making clear it was a hoax with total support as always for Gina and P411.

I have researched however the foreign issue and while obviously Gina is totally legal (prostitution solicitation totally legal in Canada) there is a Treaty on criminal matters between the U.S. and Canada similar to with other countries that could get info (but hard). So not having info is more important than being foreign.

This comes up related to a BIG site which is hosted in Europe but in a country with a similar treaty and any "control person" can be served in the U.S. even without the Treaty. Which is why they fired a lot of their moderators.

Again I am totally supportive of P411 and have worked with Gina on issues (long ago) in the past and totally impressed as the safest one can possibly be these days.

For those interested in the legal stuff, I offer:
The Treaty Between the United States and Canada on Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters, Mar. 18, 1985, U.S.-Can., 24 I.L.M. 1092 ("MLAT" or "Treaty"), was signed at Quebec City, Canada on March 18, 1985, the advice and consent of the United States Senate was received on October 24, 1989, and the Treaty was entered into force on January 24, 1990. The Treaty obligates the two governments to provide "mutual legal assistance in all matters relating to the investigation, prosecution and suppression of offences." MLAT, art. II, ¶ 1. The MLAT with Canada is "one of a series of modern mutual legal assistance treaties being negotiated by the United States in order to counter more effectively criminal activities." Letter of Transmittal from Ronald Reagan, President of the United States, to the United States Senate, February 22, 1988, S. Exec. Rep. 100-14, 100th Cong., 2d Sess. (July 1985).

MLAT has the desired quality of compulsion as they contractually obligate the two countries to provide to each other evidence and other forms of assistance needed in criminal cases while streamlining and enhancing the effectiveness of the process for obtaining needed evidence. This MLAT between the United States and Canada provides for a broad range of cooperation in criminal matters.

Mutual assistance available under the Treaty includes: (1) the taking of testimony or statements of witnesses; (2) the provision of documents, records, and evidence; (3) the execution of requests for searches and seizures; (4) the serving of documents; and (5) the provision of assistance in proceedings relating to the forfeiture of the proceeds of crime, restitution to the victims of crime, and the collection of fines imposed as a sentence in a criminal prosecution. (Letter of Transmittal from Pres. Reagan)

The Treaty mentions it is similar to other bilateral mutual assistance treaties with a long list of countries (including Netherlands where I believe a large board is hosted).

The treaty needs a good lawyer to understand, but it seems to require the request to come from the U.S. Attorney General but can be on behalf of a "competent authority" defined as any law enforcement authority related to the investigation of an offence for which the penalty is at least one year in prison or more or any offence related to securities, wildlife, environmental or consumer protection.

In the U.S. it is getting common to charge felony criminal enterprise if any escort has a driver, call taker, or of course an agency massage parlor etc that is more than just a individual companion/escort. All of these have at least one year prison terms.

On the reverse side - A Canadian subpoena fight against a U.S. person is discussed in a complex case discusses the Treaty is Commissioner's Subpoenas.United States of America, Appellant United States Court of Appeals, Eleventh Circuit. - 325 F.3d 1287
----
These views are purely editorial and do not reflect the specific legal strategy of any case. These are in NO way indicating the intention or defense of those indicted. All criminal charges are alleged and discussions of charges does not imply any guilt. I am not a lawyer; any legal issues should be addressed by a competent attorney.

[carpenter]

I also recieved the email although I have never been a member. So, it is curious of where all these email addresses were harvested that were used, and like me who were none members of P411. I have never used my email with any hobby related reasons.

[The Rover]

Carpenter have you ever responded to a email sent through Eccie pm system before ?

Originally Posted By SENSUALCITA
Its a scam thank goodness!! I knew it was strange when I got that email through my old email. Yet I didnt receive it in my new one where I receive anything from p411.

Only about 10 people total in Austin , SA , and Houston have said they recieved it . Putting doubt on the email addresses being part of a mailing list . Seems much more random .

[carpenter]

Rover you make a nice point, as it would seem that this site is the only source of my email address. As it is true all PM's generate an email message to inform one that they have recieved a PM. Thus at least in my case, it would seem that somehow this site was the source for my email address. Any of you high tech types have a better explaination?

[The Rover]

No explination , but the guy who started making outing threats could have somehow gotten email addresses and sent out to Eccie members . It doesn't make sense that non p411 members would receive email , or that it would go to old addresses . Also seems people in Austin , SA , and Houston got them - guy making threats is in SA . Which makes me doubt p411 involvement , or that they were somehow harvested through another common site . I know that I have recieved email via pm system here and thought MAYBE that COULD be the common denominator . None the less I still believe it to be a grudge and not an investigation .

[homer13]

Originally Posted by ThatHarleyGuy

I have dealt with Gina on other matters. I trust her. I trust her more than most of the local rabble-rowzers. I've been a member for many years, and consider it a valuable tool, as well as a great alternative source of provider listings. I did not receive the message. If you were in the loop on the server overload attack they experienced you'd know she doesn't keep any of the personal identification used in your initial screening. There is nothing in her operation to tie your civilian identity to your hobby accounts unless you haven't seperated those worlds yourself. That is also why P411 has no auto-renewal function. She refuses to keep any of our info, even for billing purposes. Everything is destroyed. Nothing goes into the site database except your hobby-world profile info. A USDOJ would have to use other means of connecting you to your hobby profile.

If I were one of you that received it, I'd be more concerned with figuring out where you "go" that a bunch of hobby addresses were harvested from.

I trust no one and no company when it comes to my personal information. the only one I trust to keep it safe is myself. I joined p411 using to provider refs so I didn't have to give out info. I would have never joined any other way. I know what they say about your info but I have NO way of VERIFYING that. It's just not a risk I'd EVER be willing to take.

After all when push comes to shove it is always the John the end's up on the news when the ladies are looking for a lesser sentence. (big case's not one on one)