Trump contrition non existent

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by txdot-guy

I’ve seen this mentioned in a couple of posts. Can someone explain it to me please. From what i’ve read it doesn’t seem to be true but i’m willing to hear your view on the judge’s instructions.

PS. 5000 years of law. really? I think you are off by quite a number of years.
The Code of Ur-Nammu is the oldest written text of a code of law. The code was written sometime between 2100 and 2050 BCE by the Sumerian king, Ur-Nammu, or possibly by his son, Shulgi of Ur.

lol the Code of Ur-Nammu is exactly what i was thinking of. it even got mentioned in a Star Trek episode once. something about a court martial of Capt. Kirk. bhahahahaa

it's thousands of years old.

now about that "unanimous" verdict ..


https://www.google.com/search?client...+instructions+



Legal Experts: The Trump Trial Jury Instructions Are Not Normal

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiep...ormal-n2639670


Closing arguments in the trial of former President Donald Trump in New York City, where he is charged with 34 felony counts of falsifying business records, have concluded and Judge Juan Merchan has given the jury their instructions. The instructions were given verbally and jurors won't receive printed copies, although they can ask questions.

According to legal experts, Merchan's standards for a conviction are abnormal and do not require jurors to reach a unanimous decision on the charges. Further, jurors don't have to determine what crime was committed.


"Judge Merchan has ruled that the jury does not have to agree on what that crime is. The jury could split into three groups of four on which of the three crimes were being concealed and Merchan will still treat it as a unanimous verdict," George Washington University Law Professor Jonathan Turley, who has been inside the courtroom, writes. "The jury has been given little substantive information on these crimes, and Merchan has denied a legal expert who could have shown that there was no federal election violation. This case should have been dismissed for lack of evidence or a cognizable crime."


https://x.com/JonathanTurley/status/...ormal-n2639670


...So four can find a state election violation, four can find a federal election violations and four can find tax violations and it will still be treated as a unanimous verdict.


note that there is no Federal charge. the DOJ and FEC both declined any charges. Bragg's claim hinged on his assertion that Trump had to consider this a campaign expense where the FEC did not.


it's also this federal campaign law violation that doesn't exist at least to the FEC that allowed Bragg to bring a case as the statute of limitations on misdemeanor record keeping violations had expired.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

lol the Code of Ur-Nammu is exactly what i was thinking of. it even got mentioned in a Star Trek episode once. something about a court martial of Capt. Kirk. bhahahahaa

it's thousands of years old.

now about that "unanimous" verdict ..


https://www.google.com/search?client...+instructions+



Legal Experts: The Trump Trial Jury Instructions Are Not Normal

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiep...ormal-n2639670


Closing arguments in the trial of former President Donald Trump in New York City, where he is charged with 34 felony counts of falsifying business records, have concluded and Judge Juan Merchan has given the jury their instructions. The instructions were given verbally and jurors won't receive printed copies, although they can ask questions.

According to legal experts, Merchan's standards for a conviction are abnormal and do not require jurors to reach a unanimous decision on the charges. Further, jurors don't have to determine what crime was committed.


"Judge Merchan has ruled that the jury does not have to agree on what that crime is. The jury could split into three groups of four on which of the three crimes were being concealed and Merchan will still treat it as a unanimous verdict," George Washington University Law Professor Jonathan Turley, who has been inside the courtroom, writes. "The jury has been given little substantive information on these crimes, and Merchan has denied a legal expert who could have shown that there was no federal election violation. This case should have been dismissed for lack of evidence or a cognizable crime."


https://x.com/JonathanTurley/status/...ormal-n2639670


...So four can find a state election violation, four can find a federal election violations and four can find tax violations and it will still be treated as a unanimous verdict.


note that there is no Federal charge. the DOJ and FEC both declined any charges. Bragg's claim hinged on his assertion that Trump had to consider this a campaign expense where the FEC did not.


it's also this federal campaign law violation that doesn't exist at least to the FEC that allowed Bragg to bring a case as the statute of limitations on misdemeanor record keeping violations had expired.

I figured that was what you were getting at. TxDot has said repeatedly that New York, Texas or any other state can pass laws that we think are stupid but we still have to follow them or risk going to jail. Fair enough. Well, New York has some really stupid laws. Among them are falsification of internal business records. That is, even if the records didn’t see the light of day outside of the Trump organization, falsifying them is a crime. It’s like if you keep a ledger for your bank account and call your visits to Asian massage parlors medical expenses, but never deduct them from your taxable income, then you’re guilty of a misdemeanor.

However, if the state can show those falsified records covered up unreported campaign contributions or were used to violate tax laws, then all those misdemeanors for falsified internal records magically transform into felonies.

All of the three ways to get to felony convictions sound absurd to me. These payments to the women should have been reported as campaign contributions? You’re going to convict the guy on 34 felony charges based on that? They weren’t campaign contributions. The tax charge is even more laughable. Michael Cohen paid more tax than he should have. You don’t charge people with felonies for over reporting income.

I can guaran-damn-tee you that the County of New York wouldn’t have gone after Trump on this if he were still a Democrat. It’s 100% political.

[txdot-guy]

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

now about that "unanimous" verdict ..

Legal Experts: The Trump Trial Jury Instructions Are Not Normal

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiep...ormal-n2639670

According to legal experts, Merchan's standards for a conviction are abnormal and do not require jurors to reach a unanimous decision on the charges. Further, jurors don't have to determine what crime was committed.

"Judge Merchan has ruled that the jury does not have to agree on what that crime is. The jury could split into three groups of four on which of the three crimes were being concealed and Merchan will still treat it as a unanimous verdict," George Washington University Law Professor Jonathan Turley, who has been inside the courtroom, writes. "The jury has been given little substantive information on these crimes, and Merchan has denied a legal expert who could have shown that there was no federal election violation. This case should have been dismissed for lack of evidence or a cognizable crime.

...So four can find a state election violation, four can find a federal election violations and four can find tax violations and it will still be treated as a unanimous verdict.

Originally Posted by Tiny

I figured that was what you were getting at. TxDot has said repeatedly that New York, Texas or any other state can pass laws that we think are stupid but we still have to follow them or risk going to jail. Fair enough. Well, New York has some really stupid laws. Among them are falsification of internal business records. That is, even if the records didn’t see the light of day outside of the Trump organization, falsifying them is a crime. It’s like if you keep a ledger for your bank account and call your visits to Asian massage parlors medical expenses, but never deduct them from your taxable income, then you’re guilty of a misdemeanor.

However, if the state can show those falsified records covered up unreported campaign contributions or were used to violate tax laws, then all those misdemeanors for falsified internal records magically transform into felonies.

All of the three ways to get to felony convictions sound absurd to me. These payments to the women should have been reported as campaign contributions? You’re going to convict the guy on 34 felony charges based on that? They weren’t campaign contributions. The tax charge is even more laughable. Michael Cohen paid more tax than he should have. You don’t charge people with felonies for over reporting income.

I can guaran-damn-tee you that the County of New York wouldn’t have gone after Trump on this if he were still a Democrat. It’s 100% political.

After doing some further research I’m going to concede the claim that the method used to determine that the charges are felonies is both convoluted and novel. I’m also going to concede that the requirement to prove that the records were falsified is also fairly broad. Which is why you could instruct the jurors that there were more than one way to get a guilty verdict.

All this really means however is that it would appear to me that Trump has a really good case for appeal. Not that he didn’t do it but rather that they might not have proven him guilty of any actual felonies. I predict that Trump will go free when he files his appeal and we will have to wait until after the election for a final adjudication. And yes I agree that this is political but I would only give it about 75%.

I found a good analysis here.
https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article...ush-money-case

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by txdot-guy

After doing some further research I’m going to concede the claim that the method used to determine that the charges are felonies is both convoluted and novel. I’m also going to concede that the requirement to prove that the records were falsified is also fairly broad. Which is why you could instruct the jurors that there were more than one way to get a guilty verdict.

All this really means however is that it would appear to me that Trump has a really good case for appeal. Not that he didn’t do it but rather that they might not have proven him guilty of any actual felonies. I predict that Trump will go free when he files his appeal and we will have to wait until after the election for a final adjudication. And yes I agree that this is political but I would only give it about 75%.

I found a good analysis here.
https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article...ush-money-case

only 75%?

BAHHHAAAAAA


that makes it political

and lawfare is as unbiased as FOX News is

SNICK


BAHHAHAA

[Salty Again]

... Once again, I'm not surprised - told you lads that Tax-Dot
was a fair-minded fellow...

... But you see, Tax-Dot - You're last post is exactly WHY
Trump has NO contrition on ANY matter in the state of New York.

And one o' you mates surely brought up a great point, might o' been
Tiny - about the property over-valuation case.
It's been what?? ... Over 6 months?? ... WHO ELSE in NYC has been
charged with that in the same manner as Trump?? ... NO ONE.

... So in-addition to His appeal - Trump surely has a GREAT case
for a multi-million $$$$ Lawsuit against New York for targeting
and Malicious Prosecution.

... Blimey! ... No wonder there's NO Contrition from Trump.

#### Salty

[Yssup Rider]

He’s a felon.

And if he keeps trashing the institutions he helped create, he’ll wind up with his moob in a wringer.

[txdot-guy]

Please don’t take any comments i’ve made as an endorsement of Diaper Don’s claims. All I am saying is that I think that Trump has good reason to believe that his appeal has merit.

The prosecution was well investigated, thorough and obviously successful. It was just political more than anything else. Nothing different than any of the other political cases brought by state Attorneys General all over the country.

[eyecu2]

DA Bragg has already stated that if the case is overturned on appeal, he will re-file. Win some, lose some, but keep on filing. There's more to get Trump twisted up on yet.

July the SCOTUS will tell DiaperDon he has no absolute immunity when acting as a candidate..

And we can get more cases of public interest in prosecuting the worst president in History.

DJT

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by txdot-guy

Please don’t take any comments i’ve made as an endorsement of Diaper Don’s claims. All I am saying is that I think that Trump has good reason to believe that his appeal has merit.

The prosecution was well investigated, thorough and obviously successful. It was just political more than anything else. Nothing different than any of the other political cases brought by state Attorneys General all over the country.

its entirely political and nothing else. State AG's don't bring political cases. but this is corrupt New York and Bragg stated as his platform he'd "get Trump".


this case was brought only because Trump is running for president again. the same with that sham valuation "crime" nonsense and serial cunt liar E Jean Carroll.


it can't be "Mostly political" it either is or it isn't.

this is political 100%

[Salty Again]

Originally Posted by eyecu2

DA Bragg has already stated that if the case is overturned on appeal, he will re-file. Win some, lose some, but keep on filing. There's more to get Trump twisted up on yet.


DJT

.... Bragg will Re-File?? ...

Crikey! ... Just spilled-over me beer from laughin' ...

... When the case is Overturned - NO ONE will re-file it.

No bleedin' wonder Trump got no contrition! ...

#### Salty

[Precious_b]

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

...
did anyone expect Trump to be contrite? ...

I would ask you to show us when he has ever been contrite but.....