The Best of Both Worlds

[JD Barleycorn]

that is the best you can do? really? height comments? Maybe we should discuss length or your lack thereof.

[timpage]

No, absolutely not. I will not send you a photo of my junk.

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

that is the best you can do? really? height comments? Maybe we should discuss length or your lack thereof.

[JD Barleycorn]

make sure you use the fish eye lense. it makes things appear bigger than they really are.

[i'va biggen]

J D knows it is his rule.

[CuteOldGuy]

What do you want, JD? Lying about the reasons for the war? Going to war without a declaration of war? Going to war without a definition of victory? Promising the war would be repaid through the sale of Iraqi oil? Torture of innocent detainees? Gunning down and bombing innocent civilians? Violations of international law by striking at targets outside the "war zone"? Wasting 4,500 American lives, and wounding thousands more for essentially no definable national interest, other than propping up oil companies and defense contractors? Oh yeah, he got rid of Saddam, because Saddam was saying mean things about Pappy.

The whole Iraq debacle was a disaster from Day 1. We will never recover the time, money, lives and treasure we squandered there, in pursuit of nothing.

[chefnerd]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

What do you want, JD? Lying about the reasons for the war? Going to war without a declaration of war? Going to war without a definition of victory? Promising the war would be repaid through the sale of Iraqi oil? Torture of innocent detainees? Gunning down and bombing innocent civilians? Violations of international law by striking at targets outside the "war zone"? Wasting 4,500 American lives, and wounding thousands more for essentially no definable national interest, other than propping up oil companies and defense contractors? Oh yeah, he got rid of Saddam, because Saddam was saying mean things about Pappy.

The whole Iraq debacle was a disaster from Day 1. We will never recover the time, money, lives and treasure we squandered there, in pursuit of nothing.

+100

Oh, and where exactly are all the WMD's that were there? Iraq was a military and political failure based upon the number of lives wasted and the number of lives psychologically damaged during it's tenure. It is still in turmoil and who actually knows what course it will take.

[JD Barleycorn]

Okay, now we're getting somewhere.

What do you want, JD? Lying about the reasons for the war? In your opinion he lied about WMDs but then so did Hillary, Bill, John, John, George, and most of the intelligence agencies in the world. If he was wrong is that a crime? Going to war without a declaration of war? He did ask Congress for an authorization for use of force. What do you want? Some calligraphy on a piece of vellum. Plus, we had a treaty with Saddam and he broke it. Legally Bush had everything he needed to go to war when Saddam broke the treaty. Going to war without a definition of victory? Since when has that been a crime? Lets talk crime and not what you want. Promising the war would be repaid through the sale of Iraqi oil? If this were a crime I would take it up with Congress since they deal with the money. It would Bush's job to win he war as CIC but treaty writing is for Congress. Torture of innocent detainees? I'll save this till the end. Gunning down and bombing innocent civilians? At the end. Violations of international law by striking at targets outside the "war zone"? See the end. Wasting 4,500 American lives, and wounding thousands more for essentially no definable national interest, other than propping up oil companies and defense contractors? Once again, this is not a crime or every president would have to be charged. Think Lebanon, Vietnam, Cambodia, Oman, Korea, Europe (twice), Iwo Jima, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, etc. Oh yeah, he got rid of Saddam, because Saddam was saying mean things about Pappy. This is actually a little bit dishonest COG, Saddam tried to assassinate the elder Bush not talk about him. Clinton should have gone to war when that happened and I would say the same thing if Saddam was going to target any American on purpose.

This is the end; torture....we still don't know what torture is and isn't. Not a flippant answer but you ask 10 political experts what torture is and you get 10 different explanations. I am going to assume that you are NOT talking about forced standing, sleep deprivation, or climate control. Lets go to the big W "waterboarding". Is waterboarding torture? Not in my opinion. It does no physical damage to the suspect only mental but that is a very broad brush to paint with. You could say that NOT telling someone what is going on in the world is mental torture or telling them things that are not true (which police do all the time). The US military sometimes waterboards our own members for training purposes. Do we torture our own people? I must point out that as far as we know (I will allow that we don't know everything) no one was waterboarded just for the sake of fun (?). Everyone was suspected of having information ( and not just being assholes). The number of people that were waterboarder (again, as far as we know) is small. I know you can say just one is too many but ask a commander in the field what the lives of his people are worth. Make some bastard uncomfortable in order to save lives. Damned straight!

Innocent lives: Show me the evidence that the US (or for that fact the British or Poles) targeted innocent civilians on purpose. I haven't heard that charge outside of someone like Code: Pink. Accidents happen, collateral damage occurs. As I have said before, how many Frenchmen died from our bombing in World War II? Thousands to be sure. Bring me that evidence.

Attacks outside the war zone: ???? What are you talking about? Did we bomb Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia and I missed it. Maybe you just have a different definition. I would like to know.

Was the war in Iraq fought correctly? Few wars are. Even the First Gulf War had problems. We never destroyed any Republican Guard units and we should have. We killed over 100,000 regular Iraqi troops and many were trying to retreat when they died. Many of us were sick when we saw what we were doing (yes, I was there) to those poor guys. We should have driven an armored column to the gates of Baghdad to prove that Hussein was a liar and fraud. Let the people of Baghdad see armed Americans outside the walls of the city before we leave. We should never have given the opportunity for Saddam to say that he drove us off. We should have followed through on our promises to the Kurdish people (thanks Congress for nothing). When we found that Saddam had one of our pilots after the cease fire we should have started destroying his military again until his return (he was a Kansas City native).

[Yssup Rider]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

that is the best you can do? really? height comments? Maybe we should discuss length or your lack thereof.

are you asking about another member's, er, member? I didn't know you'd given up on mine, just because MY JUNK was playing hard to get!

Im jealous.

And you, BarleySwine, are a creepy motherfucker. How rare do you like YOUR lambchops?

[CuteOldGuy]

What I see, JD, is you supporting war with no identifiable national interest at stake, no definition of victory, and no desire to reach that result with the least amount of life lost.

How you (or anyone) can support mindless militarism is beyond me.