Astros tonight

[bambino]

Originally Posted by boardman

I don't agree with bringing Cole in at all. He's never made a college or professional relief appearance. Being a great starter doesn't equal being a great closer. It's a different mindset and approach. John Smolz even seemed skeptical about bringing Cole in and he's done both. I mean, you go with the guys who got you there. You know what they've got so you let them do their thing. Osuna isn't a set up man, he's a closer. It wasn't his usual spot and he seemed uncomfortable.


I do agree that Greinke should have stayed in the game. After getting the first batter out he gave up the HR and then a 5 pitch walk to Soto. (It's not the worst idea to pitch around that guy and bring up Kendrick). He wasn't in a bind and I believe he was at 80 pitches. He'd never really been in a bind all game long. A runner on 1st, 1 out and the lower half of the lineup due up is not a reason to panic. Greinke had thrown some double play balls. His breaking stuff was biting and falling out. He could have easily gotten out of that inning and gone another before reaching the heart of the lineup again. Then you bring in Harris, who was the hottest pitcher in the series and Osuna to close it just like they'd done dozens of times this year. The way Hinch played it put everyone out of their comfort zone.



It seems like Hinch wanted to make some kind of statement. I don't know if he was trying to seal his place in WS history by doing something "unique" or what but yeah he did overmanage by not trusting the guys who got him there.

Relief pitchers are relief pitchers because they’re not good enough to be starters. The bottom line, you have to get hitters out. Cole is one of the best at getting hitters out. Houston’s relief pitchers didn’t do the job. I’m sure Cole was ready and willing to bring the 100mph heat. You don’t leave the stud in the barn in that situation. But hey, it’s over.

[boardman]

John Smoltz wrote about the difference in starting and closing in his book.


“Say you’re at work, you get in your car to drive home. You drive the speed limit get back to your house, no problem. That’s starting. That’s structured. You knew where you were going and your were absolutely comfortable getting in the car and going there. Now go back and try it again, only this time when you get in your car, get it up to 100 miles an hour immediately, and this time, no matter what, don’t let up on the gas until you arrive home. Along the way try to avoid the following likely scenarios: causing an accident, running off the road, and harming yourself and /or anyone else. Now, how did that feel? Were you in control? Were you confident that you were going to arrive home safe and sound? Well, that’s closing.”

Sure Cole throws heat but he also pitches strategically (getting 20+ outs, comfortably driving the speed limit) He's never pitched tactically( getting three outs, driving all out and getting home as quickly as possible.) Maybe Cole could have handled the transition. Who knows? It just doesn't seem like a good idea to experiment with bringing in a guy who has never been in that zone before...ever... and hope he has the confidence and control to keep the car between the ditches at 100mph. Especially when you already have, statistically, one of the best set up men and best closers in the game.
It really makes me wonder if Hinch thought he might be able to get Cole to stay in Houston if he could make him the hero.

[VitaMan]

For the most part, this analogy escapes me, except for possibly men on base when you enter the game.
Cole could have entered the game with none on, or at the most, a runner at first base.

[boardman]

Or 2 up with bases loaded and no outs. That's the analogy... Uncertainty and how one deals with it.

[bambino]

Originally Posted by boardman

John Smoltz wrote about the difference in starting and closing in his book.


“Say you’re at work, you get in your car to drive home. You drive the speed limit get back to your house, no problem. That’s starting. That’s structured. You knew where you were going and your were absolutely comfortable getting in the car and going there. Now go back and try it again, only this time when you get in your car, get it up to 100 miles an hour immediately, and this time, no matter what, don’t let up on the gas until you arrive home. Along the way try to avoid the following likely scenarios: causing an accident, running off the road, and harming yourself and /or anyone else. Now, how did that feel? Were you in control? Were you confident that you were going to arrive home safe and sound? Well, that’s closing.”

Sure Cole throws heat but he also pitches strategically (getting 20+ outs, comfortably driving the speed limit) He's never pitched tactically( getting three outs, driving all out and getting home as quickly as possible.) Maybe Cole could have handled the transition. Who knows? It just doesn't seem like a good idea to experiment with bringing in a guy who has never been in that zone before...ever... and hope he has the confidence and control to keep the car between the ditches at 100mph. Especially when you already have, statistically, one of the best set up men and best closers in the game.
It really makes me wonder if Hinch thought he might be able to get Cole to stay in Houston if he could make him the hero.

Well, we’ll agree to disagree. While I respect Schmoltz, in this case I disagree with him. Cole may have pitched “strategically” in Pittsburgh, he was coached to pitch to contact. Let your D make the outs. Which was retarded. The Pirates had a less than average D. Cole hated it and wanted out. Houston took the leash off and he became a power pitcher. He strikes people out at a high rate. That’s what the Astros needed in that situation. To suggest Cole couldn’t handle 2 innings of bringing it is wrong. He was rested and wanted the ball. There was no tomorrow. I doubt Cole would have stayed if he did pitch and the Astros won. Boras is his agent. Coles a California guy. The offer will be astronomical. No pun intended.

[VitaMan]

A little sad Cole could not even wear an Astros hat after game 7, and said he was no longer employed. What would he have done if the Astros had won ?


Bottom line....don't take any of the sports teams and their home town marketing seriously. Baseball especially, they are a monopoly granted by the government. As boardman advises on other issues, follow the money. Money, money, money. It used to be fun to go to baseball games.

[bambino]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

A little sad Cole could not even wear an Astros hat after game 7, and said he was no longer employed. What would he have done if the Astros had won ?


Bottom line....don't take any of the sports teams and their home town marketing seriously. Baseball especially, they are a monopoly granted by the government. As boardman advises on other issues, follow the money. Money, money, money. It used to be fun to go to baseball games.

If you’re a Pirate fan like me, there’s not much money to follow. Their payroll was 61 million last season.

[boardman]

Originally Posted by bambino

Well, we’ll agree to disagree.

I'm good with that.

[boardman]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

A little sad Cole could not even wear an Astros hat after game 7, and said he was no longer employed. What would he have done if the Astros had won ?


Bottom line....don't take any of the sports teams and their home town marketing seriously. Baseball especially, they are a monopoly granted by the government. As boardman advises on other issues, follow the money. Money, money, money. It used to be fun to go to baseball games.

Yeah, it's out of a lot of middle or lower middle class families budget to attend a baseball game.
At least Drayton McClane had a family package that made it somewhat reasonable. I dont know if Crane has continued that or not.
MLB would be wise to do something that engages a the next generation of players and spectators. Big screen TVs and 8K definition is great but there is nothing better than attending a ball game. Can you imagine being a kid keeping up with your favorite teams and player stats before tv? I love seeing old men and women who come to a game with a score sheet. I doubt kids today even know how to fill one out.

[theonean]

Leaving Greinke in to work out of the inning, maybe induce a grounder for a double play would have been the best ballsy move, but then again...