Deposits????

[SweetNikki505]

In my time in the hobby I have only ever thought a deposit would make sense if you were having a provider travel to you from another location. But I must say after having 2 sessions each of the last 3 wks cancel (or just not follow thru) I am starting to understand the actual need otherwise. Although you can charge a cancelation fee, that would be pretty difficult to enforce I've always believed.
My opinion is this has stemmed from a 'reap what you sow' scenario . For two reasons. 1. The hobbyists, in this area at least, can be very inconsistent and inconsiderate of providers time. Only becoming much worse over the years. We have always had to deal with flakes on occasion but it has reached a point where that is actually more of the norm than having clients actually keep/follow through with their scheduled appointments. So the deposit model allows legit providers to at least make an increment of the money they were expecting as compensation for their time and possible loss of another opportunity while waiting for someone who doesn't end up showing. At the same time it allows scam artists to make money with no effort at all. If they price themselves low enough to attract all the low ballers and require a deposit. They can make quite a bit of money without ever having to provide any service whatsoever.
2. More than ever before "low end providers" that provide qv,hhr,car dates, and cheap hrly visits have infiltrated the hobby calling themselves and being called escorts. As pretentious as I might come across these ladies are from a different faction of the sex industry. In my opinion, not at all the same as a paid companion/escort. Scam artists have ran in that scene for a very long time. The old cash and dash, bait and switch has now moved on to include deposits and "handlers". Let's just say their motivations are quite different than the old school escort.
So all the lack of regard and constant lowballing has lead to the current dynamics where you have mostly street walkers looking for the fastest easiest buck providing around here vs the paid escort most of you all still seem to be wanting. That old saying cheap service isn't good and good service isn't cheap applies here. And because of all the flaking out good service is moving on to other areas or occupations. Reap what you sow!
Like it or not, it's true.
As I have been seriously contemplating my own exit I can relate to Beyondthere completely. The hobby has changed and by no means for the better for neither hobbyists or actual escorts.

[Titman69696]

No offense to anyone providers especially... But the consumer controls the marketplace. If you pay, the deposit will continue to become more and more common... If you don't play along deposits will likely disappear. Basic economics.

I would shy away from s deposit for any local girl.

[SweetNikki505]

Originally Posted by Titman69696

No offense to anyone providers especially... But the consumer controls the marketplace.

No doll, it's called supply AND demand. Consumers rarely run this particular market all by themselves if they ever have at all. If that were true the going hrly rate would surely be far less than $200 and nobody would require real life info screening. Also LE could have probably ran off prostitution a long time ago by just penalizing patrons much more severely.
Some things have always and will always have a high demand and the sex industry is one. There is still a relatively low supply to demand. Consumers boycotting, in the sex arena, have lead things to where they are right now. A lower quality of supply, a less positive experience generally, and more chances to be ripped off.
Not advocating for deposits by any means just rebutting that one claim.

[TheHolySong]

There's a minimum limit for the cost of things and the supply is worthless without the customer. It's basic business principles. If no one is buying your product then your supply of whatever you're selling isn't worth it. To the supplier their product is worth it but you need to convince the customer it's worth it.

It's not surprising providers are losing out to agencies because there's at least a bar of professionalism and services. I will never do a deposit again because to be frank it's a one sided transaction and leads to a scam. One thing that boggles my mind is the trust aspect behind it, you wouldn't trust a stranger to utilize your supply then pay afterwards but they'd want a customer to pay before even seeing the product in person.

I also don't think demand is as high as you think it is, that's an inflated sense of business and based off what I've seen the supply is low. No disrespect to the suppliers in this case but it's the same few almost everyday. I see it as the equivalent of Pepsi and coke opening a soda shop and charges 2 dollars a bottle and you know the brands and you know it's good. Then some random 8 brands open a soda shop and think they can get 2 dollars a bottle with less options and a less appealing shop to look at. Then they also want you to pay 50 cents for the bottle itself without any indication of how big it is.

For me and my small circle agencies are dominating over Individual providers because it's a bunch of small shops thinking their supply is top shelf.

[Unique_Carpenter]

Except there's not a limited supply of customers.
What we see on this board is a small fraction of hobby world, probably less than a few percent.

[SweetNikki505]

Ok, well once again, the sex industry is a beast of its own, not really comparable to soda companies. I can guarantee you the demand is much higher than you believe it to be. Or perhaps you can explain the existence of sex trafficking to me. Why on earth would that be a thing if demand wasn't extremely high? I mean why would someone go through such extremes to put a bottle of "Pepsi" on the shelf if the chance even existed that no one was ever likely going to buy it?
"From what you seen"...yes from what you've seen. Which isn't alot. Sorry no disrespect to you but it might surprise you to find out that most clientele have never even heard of Eccie or TER or P411 etc etc etc. I mean what do you think was done before the internet was even a part of the hobby? Did it not exist then? It did, I can assure you. I was there lol.
I'm not familiar with your claims that agencies are dominating over independents. In fact I'm completely unaware of any local agency that exists. Please enlighten me if you can. As a side note about agencies, one could argue that you are paying a premium for your "Pepsi" that may be just as good as the "$2 Pepsi" that you get directly from the Pepsi store. Which might be worth it to you, if you like a prettier bottle and/or the convenience of someone else getting the bottle for you. But some people might just rather go to the source and pay much less. And some may prefer to bargain shop for something that isn't quite Pepsi but is what they consider close enough. Just saying.

[desertfish]

Thanks Nikki, I always enjoy reading your insightful views from the other side of the client/provider equation. In any business that is based on human vice (drugs, gambling, sex), it is always the supplier that controls the transaction. Junkies don’t set the price for the fix; gamblers don’t set the odds and hobbyists pay for sex since Adam wanted to have a threesome with Lilith and Eve.

[TheHolySong]

The point isn't it's a soda company or any particular company and focusing on that is odd. It's the message behind what I said not explicitly what I said. I didn't say the demand isn't high I said the demand isn't as high as it's led on the believe that's sorta the issue I have with this state in particular and some nearby, the sense of worth and need is really high. (no I don't mean worth as a human being with rights and liberties)

The existence of trafficking is due to bad people doing bad things and wanting to make money, sex will 100% always sell in society.

I'm going to be honest you, you can put shit in a bag and it's going to sell eventually and it has nothing to do with it being a good product or bad product in particular. A lot of providers price as whatever they feel their time is worth and require deposits for said time. It had no bearing on the quality and it's a matter of being competitive at that point.

Well my anecdotals is not a representation of the masses and I never claimed that, I said from what I've seen (I don't review everytime I see a provider) that independents do a good job of filtering themselves out the market. I'm not a doomsayer and I'm not native to abq but by far abq is a location I'd never recommend due to the market.

I assure you majority of the time in my case a agency gal is better quality than a independent since standards exist.

I don't look down on anyone for their preferences, style or creed. I'm just saying why would I take a chance on a deposit for a whatever my definition of a knock off pespi is when I can get actual Pepsi from the factory. Bargin shoppers can like and do whatever they please and so can providers and that's the best part about it. I'll just say for average or below average paying a deposit is foolish and even high is foolish. At least when I was in WA those girls either stopped or filtered themselves out because hobbyists are tired of being scammed. This isn't to imply all deposits are scams but paying someone in advance especially a random is foolish. You'd never let majority of guys hit it then pay later.

[TheHolySong]

The odd thing about human vices is period the supplier has to offer something the buyer wants or needs. If you don't sell at your price then it's not worth as much as you think it is.

At the end of the day bills need to be paid and if you are having to do sales and take on extra work to keep the lights on either the demand isn't there or the price is too high.

[SweetNikki505]

First off I'm not oddly focused on soda companies lol. It was an analogy put forth that I utilized. I personally wouldn't equate the two at all. I don't even think they are remotely the same as far as biz models go. Especially since one is based in a legal world and one isn't. Pretending that you are participating in a legal and fair exchange here probably isn't very helpful. My apologies for running with that one.
I should've probably said explain why the recent influx of sex trafficking. It exists because those aforementioned bad people recently discovered the void that existed between supply and demand are more than willing to try and fill it. Those bad people wouldn't find it a effort worth placing if it weren't as lucrative as it is because of the demand.
You may very well be correct that decent providers are filtering themselves out of the market. Which leads right into my original claims. That lowballing and lack of regard have led to the market to as it is now. People wanted to know how deposits have came to be and are becoming a part of the norm. Again I am not advocating for deposits. I assume most times paying a deposit will end up being a fool's errand. Most are likely to be perpetuated by scam artists of some sort.
While I suspect that you think you are debating me and my points I think you are exemplifying them. You admit you would rather pay premium than take a chance to save a buck. You have eluded to you are willing to pay a deposit to those in that tier and not in the lower tiers. You would be the opposite of why these deposit scams have came to be and will likely continue. It's not those willing to pay premium or even fair pricing that have shifted the market it is the bargain shoppers wanting to pay less and thinking they can still have the same quality while doing so. No. That doesn't exist. That doesn't even exist in the legal biz models and it definitely doesn't exist in this arena. You get what you pay for. You get what you've asked for. You (maybe not you specifically) asked for cheaper service and that's exactly what you've gotten, and also everything that comes along with that. Plain and simple. You will get your cheaper rates but you will also get scams, lack of enthusiasm, time wasters, drug addicts, and sex trafficking victims. You are now playing a different game. Low paid high volume providers are not likely to give a shit how your experience is. They are likely to no bat an eye at taking advantage of a chance to rip you off in any way that they can. Included demanding deposits for services they will never ever render. Because unlike you, apparently bargain hunters are willing to take that chance in effort to maybe save a buck.

[SweetNikki505]

BTW I can only speak for myself but I will filter myself out of this biz long before I will lower my service to appease the current market because for me it's no longer worth it. I could very easily drop my rates and provide less of an experience. I could start doing qv, hhr, car dates. I could start doing 10 sessions a day. I could start running scams too. But that's not what I want to do. I wonder if other providers that have disappeared from the hobby felt like I do. Maybe...probably. Add shoulder shrug here.

[Kvothe]

Originally Posted by TheHolySong

[snip]
I assure you majority of the time in my case a agency gal is better quality than a independent since standards exist.
[snip]

My experience is the exact opposite. A good independent is, in my experience, much more likely to be a wonderful date.

[LilithGilman]

You guys are always quoting "basic economic" principles and it's kind of a pet peeve of mine. Yes, some basic economic principles apply to escorting but it's really important to remember that escorting is a business that is a "beast of its own", like Nikki pointed out.

There are so many variables in place that affect the outcomes of how well we do as escorts or how much we charge. Plus, we are people, not objects.

Personally, I've found that if someone goes through with the trouble of putting down a deposit-even if it's a negligible amount-they are much less likely to cancel.

It's not really talked about much but hobbyists have been known to collectively book providers with the intention of luring her to travel to a particular location and then collectively cancelling. I've personally experienced this many times.

It's not just men flaking or having a change of plans (which does happen, too), this is hobbyist harassing and bullying providers. If a provider loses money by traveling out, she might become desperate enough to lower her rates, which is often the goal behind this type of harassment. It might sound a little paranoid but this has been corroborated by other providers who have experienced this. I've even had hobbyists confess to booking fake appointments in order to "teach" me what my rates should be.

Behavior like this is why escorts take deposits. I'm glad they've become the norm.

[Unique_Carpenter]

Lilith is on point.
I know of more than a few gals that have dropped cities off of their touring circuits cause guys played the game she mentions.
And my fav actually has more stories on this same topic from her friends that still tour.
Last, I'm going to repeat myself from above:

Originally Posted by Unique_Carpenter

... What we see on this board is a small fraction of hobby world, probably less than a few percent.

[R1ver 0tter]

Originally Posted by beyondthere

I say NO 95% of the time. There are a few exceptions. A very well reviewed lady with an outstanding history of showing up and following through with appointments. Plus, gives a good experience.

I say no even if this is the case. there are multiple reviews on here of well reviewed ladies with outstanding and excellent histories who decided to start taking money and not actually doing anything. after all, why bother? you already got paid.