IRS Scandals and Immigration Reform - ONE SOLUTION!

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Learn the facts, CBJ7. It's called "thinking". Try it. I've explained all this to you before.

fact is you got nothing but a duck and dodge reply when the facts are packed in your ass and both are handed back to you ..

[CuteOldGuy]

Whatever, CBJ7. You're boring.

[CJ7]

snick

[Chica Chaser]

Originally Posted by CJ7

fact is you got nothing but a duck and dodge reply when the facts are packed in your ass and both are handed back to you ..

Fact is the EVERYONE gets a prebate, poor and rich alike. Like he said, all you gotta do read

Under the FairTax, all Americans consume what they see as their necessities of life free of tax. While permitting no exemptions, the FairTax (HR25/S122) provides a monthly universal prebate to ensure that each family unit can consume tax free at or beyond the poverty level, with the overall effect of making the FairTax progressive in application. There is no marriage penalty as the couple gets twice the amount that a single adult receives.

While everyone pays the same tax rate at the cash register, the prebate results in effective tax rates (annual taxes paid divided by annual spending) that increase as the level of spending increases a progressive tax rate structure. For example, a person spending at the poverty level has a 0% effective tax rate, whereas someone spending at twice the poverty level has an effective tax rate of 11.5%, and so on.

Here are the proposed numbers

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by Chica Chaser

Fact is the EVERYONE gets a prebate, poor and rich alike. Like he said, all you gotta do read

I totally understand that , the facts are just like I said ... it promotes paying the poor and according to COF people will lose jobs and be in unemployment lines .. last time I checked the right constantly bitches about both

as for everyone else its no different than people getting tax returns, just a different way of getting $

personally I don't like the IRS worth a shit, but the transition between the irs and a fair tax at this juncture would be a bitch IMO with little room for acclimation

[Chica Chaser]

Its not "welfare" in the sense it is today. The prebate is for the tax that is paid for necessities. Everyone is going to spend for those anyway, the rich will spend more than the poor, but only receive the set amount they would qualify for. So it does not promote paying the poor, its equitable across all income levels.

It's completely different from people getting tax returns. The money you get from your tax return is money you earned that has been deducted from your pay. Not available for your use until you comply and file a return. Under the FairTax you bring home your full paycheck every pay period. How you decide to spend YOUR money is totally up to you.

Everyone will have to think about taxes in a different way. Income -- what we earn -- no longer has to be documented, measured, and tracked for tax purposes. The only relevant measure of our tax liability is the amount we choose to spend on final, discretionary consumption. The non-discretionary spending (food/medicine) is what the prebate is for, to cover the tax on those type items,up to the per-determined level noted above.

[Texas Contrarian]

There are very good arguments in favor of substituting income and payroll taxes with consumption taxes to the maximum extent possible. The latter impose far less of what is referred to as "deadweight loss" to the economy.

But let's not kid ourselves. There isn't a snowball's chance in hell that the FairTax is ever going anywhere, since one of its fundamental precepts is to completely eliminate the income tax. That's simply a fantasy.

The moment it came out that people had begun to discuss the idea in serious policy circles, the media and most of the nation's political "elite" would go apoplectic.

Since the FairTax would obviously be the biggest tax cut imaginable for the affluent, it would be killed stone dead before anyone even had time to say "Shah Mat!"

[CuteOldGuy]

It's actually a fairly progressive tax, if you read about it. However, you are correct. Most of the major campaign contributors get tax breaks in return which help them against their competition. That is why they lobby. Major companies don't want a fair playing field, and politicians don't want to give up the income, and power, and glory, forever.

[Chica Chaser]

Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight

But let's not kid ourselves. There isn't a snowball's chance in hell that the FairTax is ever going anywhere, since one of its fundamental precepts is to completely eliminate the income tax. That's simply a fantasy.

Women voting, Blacks voting, Prohibition, Repeal of Prohibition, Civil Rights were all considered "fantasy" at some point. If the citizens were to start letting their Representative know they want the Fair Tax...watch how fast it gets passed. Everything like this starts with a grassroots movement.

But you are correct, it won't get passed; but for the wrong reason. Its not because it eliminates the income tax, its because it shifts a tremendous amount of power away from Government and back to the people.

[i'va biggen]

90% of the people were for a background check ...Who won?

[Whirlaway]

The Fair Tax would be a huge game changer for individual rights and freedom in this country....................it would almost stop the growth of the federal government in it's tracks..........but would require a hard cap on the debt ceiling...................

[Texas Contrarian]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

It's actually a fairly progressive tax...

Actually, the reverse is the case. Across all but the lowest part of the income distribution, it's quite regressive. And the higher the household income, the greater the regressivity. But it sure would be a sweet deal for those of us in the universe of guys who can afford to see escorts and SBs, though, wouldn't it?

Originally Posted by Chica Chaser

But you are correct, it won't get passed; but for the wrong reason. Its not because it eliminates the income tax, its because it shifts a tremendous amount of power away from Government and back to the people.

Quite true, but I think the main reason it's never going anywhere is that, as I noted earlier, it's a huge tax cut for the affluent. That alone makes it sort of a tough sell, to say the least!

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

.but would require a hard cap on the debt ceiling.

It would require a lot more than that. Since the FairTax wouldn't even come close to hauling in the revenue collected by our current fucked-up tax system, government spending would have to be slashed far beyond what most people imagine in order not to further worsen our debt burden.

I've maintained for several years now that we'll probably have a consumption tax of some sort within the next decade. (Probably a VAT rather than the FairTax, though.) But it won't replace the income tax, it will be stacked on top of it.

We've had what amounts to several decades of referenda on social spending programs of various sorts. Nothing ever gets cut; everything just gets ratified and added to. Old programs get expanded and new ones added.

At the end of the day, someone is going to have to start paying for all this stuff. You can't just get away with perpetual financial repression and monetization.

[CuteOldGuy]

Cap'n, please go to fairtax.org and get educated. You don't know what you are talking about. The FairTax is the most vetted and researched tax proposal in history.

I agree it is highly unlikely to ever become law, because it takes too much power away from Washington. If you read closely, you will see that the bulk of the tax falls on the rich, and the opportunity to raise money for members of Congress to squander is unprecedented.

I know you're not as stupid as you sound. Please learn something.

[Yssup Rider]

Snickity snick!

If it's so incredibly simple, effective and all solving, then why haven't we done it? Oh yeah, because the fair tax isn't fair.

NEXT!

[Texas Contrarian]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Cap'n, please go to fairtax.org and get educated. You don't know what you are talking about. The FairTax is the most vetted and researched tax proposal in history.

I agree it is highly unlikely to ever become law, because it takes too much power away from Washington. If you read closely, you will see that the bulk of the tax falls on the rich, and the opportunity to raise money for members of Congress to squander is unprecedented.

I know you're not as stupid as you sound. Please learn something.

Just when you thought the forum's cluelessness quota for the week had been blasted away, along comes a member of The National Sandbox Ignorance Brigade to serve up another giant lemon!

A bit slow on the uptake, COG? It's amazing that a 19K-poster hasn't learned that you embarrass yourself far less if you demonstrate some inkling of what you're talking about before accusing someone else of ignorance.

Your claim that the FairTax is progressive is beyond ridiculous. It contains elements of progressivity (the "prebate," for instance), but only at the lower end of the income distribution. At points near and above the mean, it begins to become very regressive.

And, again, it would not raise remotely enough revenue to even come close to replacing the current tax system.

The fact that the FairTax would obviously be a huge tax cut for the affluent renders it a political non-starter of the first order.

Other than that, it's just a dandy idea!