Waterloo!

[dirty dog]

Guys like Monger are the kind who strap on explosive vests and walk into growds to explode them.

[BiggestBest]

Interesting title for this thread. The question is "Who is Napolean?"

Some have said the Republicans have had no focus recently.

Well, they have one now.

[swarmyone]

Originally Posted by fritz3552

And I am proud of my hatred and vitriol coming through. I want to destroy as many of these Democraps as I can, defeat these bastards at every turn, and send them all back to the fiery nether-regions from which they came. The sooner we eliminate them, the better (in a political sense, of course). If the Democraps thought November 1994 was bad, they haven't seen anything until this fall.

Well said sir!!!

[MsElena]

I for one am VERY happy that insurance companies won't be able to drop anyone or turn down anyone for a pre existing condition.

[lacrew_2000]

The turning people down for the existing condition is a dicey issue. Sure, it sounds cruel to turn people down. So yes, if a person has insurance and loses his job, I support the notion that he should be able to get insurance as an individual, or in a group plan when he gets a new job.

However, I do not suport the notion that a person can just wait until they are sick before they get insurance. That defeats the whole concept of insurance, and is particularly cruel to us chumps who are paying for it even though we are not sick.

Time will tell how that works out...but that is only a small portion of the bill. Much of the money is taken out of future medicare funds...its so blatant, that the healthcare bill is partially funded by doubling medicare taxes for those making over $200,000, raising the medicare deductable, and freezing medicare payments to doctors and pharmacies. It begs the question, are we providing healthcare to the young, at the expense of the elderly?

I just don't think the bill was thought through very well at all. In order to get it through, they had to throw money at every special interest group and congressman on the block...and there is absolutely no way that the cost projections are even close to being correct. People intuitively know this, and its not going to help the unemployment rate one bit.

Anyway, it will slowly be dismantled by the courts - the pre-existing condition language will stay, since both parties support it.

The reconciliation bill won't happen, btw. In order to fall under the umbrella of a simple majority requirement, aspects of the bill will have to be ruled as explicitely an appropriations bill. That same ruling will stand, and the next time the republicans get a simple majority in the senate, they can choose to de-fund it, with only 51 votes needed. The democrat senators know this, and I predict reconciliation will fall by the wayside. The democrat congressmen will have been duped, and be tied to all the senate kickbacks...and get slaughtered in the election.

[BiggestBest]

Originally Posted by MsElena

I for one am VERY happy that insurance companies won't be able to drop anyone or turn down anyone for a pre existing condition.

I understood why insurance companies wanted to do that, but I never understood why they were allowed to do it.

The problem is they WERE allowed to do it and to change it now, in this way, will come with an enormous price tag.

We don't have a good way of deciding how much health care is too much. How do you tell someone they can't have their 2nd heart transplant? Or 10th?

It's the inequities in the funding mechanisms and the lies about how much it won't cost that bother me the most about this bill.

Our country is being destroyed by entitlement programs. From Social Security to Welfare to Medicare and now this. It is out of control. This bill sets a financial time bomb for our grandchildren.

But we are increasingly a society that only cares about what's in it for me. Now. To quote Scarlett O'Hara, "Oh, la-ti-da ... I'll worry about that tomorrow".

[Guest052813-01]

Originally Posted by MsElena

I for one am VERY happy that insurance companies won't be able to drop anyone or turn down anyone for a pre existing condition.

Insurance companies are NOT charities...they are businesses that are providing a service and in turn attempting to secure the best product at the lowest possible price while trying to obtain a PROFIT (yes, I said PROFIT) that can be re-invested in their business and to distribute to stockholders (for stock companies) or their policyholders (mutual companies). They underwrite coverage for individuals based on several factors - age, health, local environment (city or county you live in), occupation - and price your coverage based on a pool of individuals in the area where you live with similar characteristics - thereby spreading the RISK hoping that claims submitted will be less than or equal to the amount of premiums paid. If an abnormal number of claims are processed, well-prepared insurance companies will have re-insured their claims with another insurance company in order to spread their risk, and then re-coup their losses by increasing premiums to the pool. Group insurance is significantly lower because the pool of individuals is larger in a group and the risk is spread out.

Dropping policyholders because of an excessive number of claims, I agree, seems cruel. I will agree with you that I don't like insurance companies dropping coverage; I know and understand why they do it, but I don't like it.

However, the fact that individuals can be denied coverage because of a pre-existing condition makes absolute sense. Why should someone be able to go out and buy, let's say, cancer coverage after that person has discovered that he/she has cancer? It's like being able to buy collision coverage for your car AFTER you've run into the back of someone. If you buy the coverage before you have the problem, then it's no problem. I myself, recently found out I had skin cancer - so from now on, if I change jobs and get new insurance, I have to answer that I had cancer and my premium will be adjusted accordingly. It may mean I would be ineligible for some coverages - and it makes good business sense.

It may make you feel good thinking that these provisions are now law (and hopefully will be recinded before long), but that will drive insurance companies out of business, simply because the people who enacted this legislation do not understand the economics of insurance. And, by extension, will destroy the fabric of our country because it makes our country a "nanny state" rather than a country that was founded on entreprenuership and individual responsibility.

Plus, if this bill is so good, why are the people who enacted this legislation exempt from the provisions within the bill?

[MsElena]

Please don't talk to me like I'm stupid and have no idea of what I'm talking about. Fritz, I don't appreciate your "tone" you took when responding.

First off, I have insurance now and have had it since I was 20 yrs old (paying myself). I've done my research on insurance companies, my father made sure I did. Now, after battling breast cancer, I've done even more research because I now have a pre-existing condition.

I never said nor thought that insurance companies were charities and I know they are businesses just like any other business, they NEED to make money.

[BigMikeinKC]

Why do Senators have their own parking spots at DC National? Because they can, they write the laws. On the flip-side, if the previous system was so good, why did they have their own golden egg of insurance coverage? Because they can.

Now don't jump my ass because I said DC National and not Ronald Reagan National. I am a firm believer that you don't name anything after a person until they have been dead at least 25 years, no exceptions. You never know what is going to come out about a person, so it needs time, it also determines if the person is big enough to be remembered. (not a poltical commentatry about RWR) Look what happened to Mark McGuire Highway.

[Bartman1963]

WOW! What a great bunch of people you Rethuglicans are. What a great bunch of ideas you all had during the healthcare debate. Fearmongering, spreading hate, filibustering, all great ideas!

What about the insurance companies? Fuck 'em! Why should human suffering, death and illness have a profit motive attached? These insurance companies are social vampires. They get between you and your doctor for money's sake! How many of you would love insurance companies so much if your Mother were denied a treatment that may have saved her life, just to enhance the bottom line? How many of you have lost a loved one because they couldn't get treatment because they were "uninsurable?"

What kind of disease do you have to have before you people give a crap about the horrible shit that is done by these companies? Wait that must be it. YOU have to have the disease before any of you give a crap. Your party had 8 years under Bush, six of which they had control over both houses of congress, with which to get something done. Your leaders saw the need but simply did not care to do anything. All they cared about was continuing to make money. To hell with morality, you say. Money is your God.

You lost the last election. Fair and square. After eight years of Bush including six with a Rethuglican controlled congress; after twelve straight years of Rethuglican control of both houses of Congress, you lost. You freaking lost. Now Democrats run the place. And you hate it. Well grow the hell up. Now the people who won the majority in the last elections are passing legislation that you hate. Well that is just tough shit. You don't like it, you can get the fuck out. No one needs your bullshit.

Your last President, Bush the lesser, pushed through the Patriot Act. That act limited your rights greatly and you lapped it up like so many kittens at a milk bowl. Some here even said "I have nothing to hide". HA! Tell your wives and employers about your involvment in the "hobby" if you have nothing to hide. The NSA already knows, through their data mining and you don't care?

You speak of tyranny! My God you don't know the meaning of the word. You are the moral equivalent of John Wilkes Booth. You make me want to throw my guts up. Not because of any of the filth you spew, but because if I were any kind of a man I would do more to make sure that the people like you were brought out into the light. I would bring your hateful bullshit ideas to the public, and see how fast you scurry into the dark where your cowardly, nearsighted intellectual vomit can continue to stink and rot!

MsElena, good luck and continued recovery... the rest of these jackasses need to sign an oath not to take Medicare and Social Security or unemployment checks if they ever need them.

Give me points, ban me...whatever.

[Guest090920]

Originally Posted by Bartman1963

Give me points, ban me...whatever.

I will vote for you to receive points, being banned ...whatever, and I know what I'm voting for, unlike so many who voted in November 2008! Your ranting was very typical, it was all criticisms and no solutions. I have a solution for you, calm down, clean up your language and be a valuable resource and member of this group, not just someone who has an axe to grind and does it laced with profanity. Thank you.

[dirty dog]

"the rest of these jackasses need to sign an oath not to take Medicare and Social Security"

I will take these you dumb ass because each paycheck they tax me so taking these benefits is simply getting back my own money. So continue on with your life, I am sure your some how sucking on the government tit and simply want more and more freebies as you continue on with your utopian socialist way of life.

"but because if I were any kind of a man I would do more to make sure that the people like you were brought out into the light. I would bring your hateful bullshit ideas to the public, and see how fast you scurry"

So are you saying your not a man, I think most of us already know that. By the way anytime you want to drag me into the public my address is well known and your welcome to bring your bitch ass over here. So go attend and Acorn meeting and chant your chant of victory as short lived as it will be, because I am sick of your bleeding heart liberal's/Progressive's giving away my money on more socialist bullshit. Do they cut your nuts off when you join the progressive party, they must because I have not met one of you that had the nuts to do anything except sit behind the keyboard and talk tough, so if anyone is going to be scurrying into the dark, I think its going to be you and people like you. So in the words of Dick Cheny "fuck you"

[MsElena]

This is why political discussions aren't always a good idea. Some seem to have a hard time DISCUSSING their views and the facts. Everyone needs to calm down and discuss this in a mature manner. Please and thanks in advance.

Bartman, thank you for your well wishes.

[Omahan]

This thread has just become hatred, personal attacks and name calling. It is now closed.