BOSTON Tragedy ...

[JohnnyCap]

Originally Posted by GP

an interesting read:

http://www.infowars.com/security-theater-moves-to-act-two-following-arrest-of-boston-marathon-bombing-suspect/

Thanks for that, I enjoyed the read. I believe the huge expense incurred to catch these two lends creedence to the article. I believe I saw in the movie Zeitgeist that having training exercises parallel the timeframe of an operation is a frequent tactic, and occurred on 911 as well.

But my thoughts on how our fundamental freedoms are being perverted are so important to me I don't want to dilute them with conspiracy theories that will turn off persons who will listen otherwise. I think that article is so strong, until it insults some readers at the end. When you have good points, you don't call your detractor a fool, you acknowledge his concerns and address them. How many threads do we see go bad in this way?

[GP]

I noticed that as well.

[DDarkness]

OK! Here goes. there are THREE (3) Issues that I hope to address in my diatribe ... and I'm drinking Yuengling Black & Tan & American Honey ... its actually very good! (1) is civil liberties (2) Personal Gun Ownership and (3) ... you guessed it Boston/Chechnya and home grown terrorism ... FUCK I should really be in the bag for this!

But before I begin, Johnny I hope that you have been able to control your drinking. It is on a VERY rare occasion that I will EVER get out of control but when I do I tend to get amorous so I guess its a god thing that I a home alone on my computer spewing forth the political rhetoric that will either get me elected Emperor or shot for being a Model for Political REALISM!

So let me begin by saying what a travesty the events in Boston were/are and that I think we can all agree our thoughts and prayers go out to the victims, the first responders, the public servants, and the residents of Boston/Watertown/etal.! Just an FYI my thoughts and prayers also go out to the family/friends of the perpetrators in light of the shame and horror that their sons/relatives/friends brought on them!

(1) Civil liberties - When a community/region/nation is subjected to terrorism then I regret to say that I am willing to relinquish SOME of my personal liberties in an attempt to protect the population at large. Having said that, some of the footage that I witnessed was impressive. The tactical units that were doing house to house searches were relatively effective and if you watched closely the rear guard was the most daunting for me as he is pointing his M4a1 up down and around the front of the house ... good job soldier. If they knocked on my door and said excuse me Mr. Darkness we're looking for Johnny Terrorist may we come in and look around I would personally say sir, or madam, I want you to know that if Mr. Terrorist were here you would need to come in because I would have already called you numbskulls and asked you NOT for an ambulance but to dispatch the Coroner!

Look they have a job to do. Will I protect my home and family using deadly force if necessary? Of course I will! Would I have shot the dumbass for getting on my boat? Hell no but I would not have been resistant to letting them come through the yard to retrieve his sorry ass as long as they brought some spackle, bondo, and paint to do the repairs if they shot up my cute little dingy!

The safety of the many out weighs the civil liberties of the few. Do I think that LE play an important part in protecting our freedoms and civil liberties? Hell yeah! Do I think that I have a responsibility to voice my concerns to ensure that my civil liberties are protected - you bet your ass! But when it comes to tactical movements of the police/swat/FBI/NSA through the streets of Boston I can honestly say that I give credit where credit is due and I support their efforts and appreciate the fact that they were putting their lives on the line to protect civilians during that nightmare. So I guess what I am saying is that I, personally, can and would cut them some slack!

(2) Personal Gun Ownership - I own them, I use them, I was/am trained and you know what? I am highly effective with a side arm, rifle, and a shotgun. I hunt and I eat what I shoot!

Do I think that current gun laws/regulations are draconian ... perhaps. But the reality is I will be the FIRST to stand in line to RE-register my hand guns and I have NO issue being subjected to a thorough background check. Is it a violation of my rights as a US citizen? FUCK NO! Should ANYONE who wants to buy a handgun have to go through a thorough criminal/psychiatric background check? Of course but do I think that things need to be done differently? Yes! Whether its me wanting a new .40-caliber Glock, Colt 1911 .45acp pistol, or the NIB Glock 20SF Gen 3 10MM 2 Hi Cap 15 rd mag I am willing to wait until AFTER they do their check ... there is NOTHING wrong with that.

To the issue of weapons capacities OVER 7 rounds ... I'm not happy, but given that I am a HUNTER ... I believe in the moniker One Shot One Kill and if you need 15 rounds to get it down Get the FUCK out of my woods and take up knitting ... BITCH!

(3) ... you guessed it Boston/Chechnya and home grown terrorism. I will be blunt and fairly straight forward here. Chechnya is a time bomb! The Philippines and Indonesia are also full of extremists. But the reality is each of us has a PERSONAL responsibility to be on guard and aware when ever we travel and to be vigilant in knowing where we are, who we are with, and how the fuck to get out of Dodge when and if the need arises!

I grieve for the loss of life in Boston just as I grieved for the loss of life in NYC, Oklahoma, Colorado, Atlanta, and everywhere else we have seen extremists take action.

... Hold up I had to get another drink!

So what are WE going to do about it? Perhaps we can think beyond our borders and the impact that our actions have on those around us. Perhaps we can recognize that it isn't Muslims who are the problem but a small segment of extremists who are bringing shame and dishonor on the faith! Perhaps we should recognize that it isn't all Catholics in Ireland who were members of the IRA and killed at Random (thank God that seems to be under control) or that all men/women with short hair are members of the National Front or the Aryan Brotherhood ... there are extremists in all walks of life and we need to build on strengths rather than tear individuals down.

... OK I feel like I'm starting to proselytize and that is the last thing I want to do! I know how fortunate I am and I really am proud to be an American! Boston is an example of what can go wrong but it is also an opportunity for us to learn and grow ... I'm tipsy right now! Can you imagine what I might have said if I was actually hammered!

Thanks for listening and until next time ... this is DDarkness (Your Candidate From Hell) signing off

And the Crowd goes wild

DD

[GP]

Dude.... yeah you..... the really bad mod...... you should start drinking more! Nice perspective on things. I agree with most of what you say. I only have 3 things to point out.

Originally Posted by DDarkness

personally, can and would cut them some slack!

SOME slack, but not much!

Originally Posted by DDarkness

I will be the FIRST to stand in line to RE-register my hand guns

What happens when they want you to register ALL of you guns, and pay a registration fee of, oh lets say 500 per gun, every year?

Originally Posted by DDarkness

Perhaps we can recognize that it isn't Muslims who are the problem but a small segment of extremists who are bringing shame and dishonor on the faith!

Agreed, but I also place some of the blame on the larger peaceful segment of that faith. They have allowed the extremist to "hijack" their religion. They should stand up and be a more powerful voice by denouncing what happens instead of dancing in the streets every time something happens.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by JONBALLS

and doove just wants you to stand by and let people trash your car

after you worked your ASS off for it

Nope. Didn't say that.

What i said was, you pull a gun on someone who's already aiming a gun at you, you're gonna get dead.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by GP

Agreed, but I also place some of the blame on the larger peaceful segment of that faith. They have allowed the extremist to "hijack" their religion. They should stand up and be a more powerful voice by denouncing what happens instead of dancing in the streets every time something happens.

[Guest091813]

hey dd ...nice read..great points...

[JONBALLS]

Originally Posted by Doove

Nope. Didn't say that.

What i said was, you pull a gun on someone who's already aiming a gun at you, you're gonna get dead.

Originally Posted by JONBALLS

sure thing, i would like to live another 30, thats why its called "concealed carry"

I already explained this to you

since you didnt get it the first time around

he cold blood killed a cop

but not someone he assumed was helpless and submissive

[Guest121613]

The founding fathers were not demigods, but the constition they put together, the bill of rights, have stood for over 200 years now. Not many governments can say that. Old countries still in existance changed over time from manarchies to democracies, emulating our government approach.

The founding fathers had a tremandous vision for their time in history, and they were able to implemant a government standing the test of time.

Some criticize them for them for abuses against first nations, and slavery, but the did implement a government that could in time address the injustices that imbedded within they late 18th century culture.

To summarize, the freedom I have to live as I see fit is not challenged, and for that I very greatful for the founding fathers did accomplish against incredible odds.

[JohnnyCap]

DD, thanks for sharing. The booze took a slight hit on your grammar, which is still much better than the average. I too am an amorous drunk, but hard to control. I don't fight, I wander off in search of...forget to pay for things, pay too much, take a nap wherever I be, on and on. It is not sustainable, and I thank you for your well wishes controlling it.

As far as guns go, I'm all for them, lots of them. I don't have one, probably won't, but I'd rather they were aplenty and self-regulated than over-regulated by folks in power.

As for Chechnya, I'm not informed. I dont care. But it's time for somebody to elevate themselves above some of these world disputes. The Earth is shrinking as we communicate and travel faster, and sooner or later somebody is going to have to call a timeout and send the boxers to their corners, much like two fighting children need be sent to different rooms. Doove and JB seem to be a good example. I'm not sure how or who, but I'm pretty sure it's the next step for mankind.

Then we have your first point to which I disagree: the safety of the many do not outweigh the liberties of the few. I'm not a child, I realize there must be death and that good people (I imagine Jack Bauer) must do bad things in the name of justice and protection. But that should be kept behind the scenes and swept under the rug. Using safety as a mantra is a slippery slope that could eventually justify horrendous actions.

Now I too would probably open my doors to folks seeking a terrorist. However, I could be doing something I couldn't expose them to...how ironic to have to be skirting PT talk with a MOD...and I have to believe my right to refuse should remain intact. And your assertion that the terrorist in your home would be dead is the exact reason we don't need these buffoons searching our homes. Why pay huge money for these 'first responders' when every decent American town is made of folks that want to protect and serve their own town. The persons that should be searching houses are persons that live in them.

I commend you sir for tossing some sympathy to the families of the perps! Much happiness and life lost there. One time they were 4 year old kids with dreams too. Hating helps no one.

But I do think we over-value first responders. For the most part they are paid and a lot of them have the job they do because they want some authority and pussy digs a uniform. Pussy and power has a cost. Friday, in Watertown, MA and NF, NY I saw bunches of these blokes wasting our time and money and in general I think more work should be required of them. I don't wish to damn nor not appreciate them, but relying on them exclusively is poor form, we have to spend less on them and be more prepared to fend for ourselves.

I stand by my original comments re Boston. It's still full of assholes. I love the town, was born nearby, and sure I'm not happy they were bombed. But Big Papi is still an asshole and a roidhead. Adam Sandler still makes mostly shitty movies. Same with Affleck. And the Hancock building houses many financial hooligans. And if we're going to live in fear, there's no reason for runners to be exempt. Hit some golfers too, keep things fair.

Its the cheering and applause that saddens me most. This isn't something anyone won. Everyone lost. There is no cause for celebration.

[JohnnyCap]

Originally Posted by lostforkate

The founding fathers were not demigods, but the constition they put together, the bill of rights, have stood for over 200 years now. Not many governments can say that. Old countries still in existance changed over time from manarchies to democracies, emulating our government approach.

The founding fathers had a tremandous vision for their time in history, and they were able to implemant a government standing the test of time.

Some criticize them for them for abuses against first nations, and slavery, but the did implement a government that could in time address the injustices that imbedded within they late 18th century culture.

To summarize, the freedom I have to live as I see fit is not challenged, and for that I very greatful for the founding fathers did accomplish against incredible odds.

I agree in principle however:

It is too soon to say we've stood a test of time. We're a fledgling pimple on the ass of time.

I'm not sure what incredible odds were overcome. They found a new continent, who wouldn't love that now?

I'm not sure the principles of their government have stood; the banking system enslaves humans, and our government has advanced that. Lots of the rights in the Bill of Rights are being infringed upon. That we needs laws for the equality of women and Africans suggests that the original laws werent so great.

So I don't agree, but I want to. I don't hate us, but I can't see singing our praises from the rooftop either. A little more humility and a little less focus on making money would be a start.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by JONBALLS

I already explained this to you

since you didnt get it the first time around

he cold blood killed a cop

but not someone he assumed was helpless and submissive

Read that a couple more times and you'll realize you just proved my point.

Thank you.

[JONBALLS]

Originally Posted by Doove

Read that a couple more times and you'll realize you just proved my point.

Thank you.

hold off on the thanks there spanky for a minute

Originally Posted by JONBALLS

you may be under the impression every person that carrys a firearm is going to just yank it out and start shooting

regardless the circumstances,

I figured you would go there , but then theres always the" circumstances"
you actually have more control over a situation than you may give people credit

eventually were going to end up with me asking you for the links ...AGAIN..

I was at this point in our conversation 3 posts ago but I will drag you along as usual

[DDarkness]

and THAT is one of the great things about this country!

Originally Posted by JohnnyCap

DD, thanks for sharing. The booze took a slight hit on your grammar, which is still much better than the average. I too am an amorous drunk, but hard to control. I don't fight, I wander off in search of...forget to pay for things, pay too much, take a nap wherever I be, on and on. It is not sustainable, and I thank you for your well wishes controlling it.

As far as guns go, I'm all for them, lots of them. I don't have one, probably won't, but I'd rather they were aplenty and self-regulated than over-regulated by folks in power.
I do and feel strongly that once I paid the taxes, initial registration fee, etc. I am GOOD TO GO!

As for Chechnya, I'm not informed. I dont care. But it's time for somebody to elevate themselves above some of these world disputes. The Earth is shrinking as we communicate and travel faster, and sooner or later somebody is going to have to call a timeout and send the boxers to their corners, much like two fighting children need be sent to different rooms. Doove and JB seem to be a good example. I'm not sure how or who, but I'm pretty sure it's the next step for mankind.
Well said. From my perspective though it is important that each of us has a better idea about where places are, the issues from those regions, and the fact that the impact felt there can and will be felt here! You know what REALLY PISSES ME OFF??? The fact that MANY school aged kids and even adults don't know the State Capitals in the US. FUCK IT some kids don't even know that Anchorage is the Capital of NY .... FUCK!!!!

Then we have your first point to which I disagree: the safety of the many do not outweigh the liberties of the few. I'm not a child, I realize there must be death and that good people (I imagine Jack Bauer) must do bad things in the name of justice and protection. But that should be kept behind the scenes and swept under the rug. Using safety as a mantra is a slippery slope that could eventually justify horrendous actions.
I won't and can't disagree. That is something that I think about but I PERSONALLY feel that the good of the many DOES outweigh the good of the few BUT I will die willingly if I can be sure that those closest to me are getting what they need and are happy!

Now I too would probably open my doors to folks seeking a terrorist. However, I could be doing something I couldn't expose them to...how ironic to have to be skirting PT talk with a MOD...and I have to believe my right to refuse should remain intact. And your assertion that the terrorist in your home would be dead is the exact reason we don't need these buffoons searching our homes. Why pay huge money for these 'first responders' when every decent American town is made of folks that want to protect and serve their own town. The persons that should be searching houses are persons that live in them.
I can't argue your point & concern. But will smile and courteously disagree about 'first responders' they rush into harms way and deserve/earn their pay. They train, Train, Train, and prepare for this type of eventuality and I consider it my tax dollars ... SPENT, I didn't say WELL spent ... but if they can prevent wide spread murder then

I commend you sir for tossing some sympathy to the families of the perps! Much happiness and life lost there. One time they were 4 year old kids with dreams too. Hating helps no one.
It serves NO purpose and NO one! Something changed them and THAT is what needs to be combated!

But I do think we over-value first responders. For the most part they are paid and a lot of them have the job they do because they want some authority and pussy digs a uniform. Pussy and power has a cost. Friday, in Watertown, MA and NF, NY I saw bunches of these blokes wasting our time and money and in general I think more work should be required of them. I don't wish to damn nor not appreciate them, but relying on them exclusively is poor form, we have to spend less on them and be more prepared to fend for ourselves.
Volunteers are in place everywhere and that too has a cost associated with it when you consider Volunteer Fire Companies, EMS, etc. these men and women put their lives on the line every day and I commend them for that! Just like we need a STANDING, well trained and equipped military, I firmly believe that we MUST have a active, well trained & equipped LE presence that can ensure the safety of the populace! As to the legal system? That is a totally DIFFERENT ANIMAL

I stand by my original comments re Boston. It's still full of assholes. I love the town, was born nearby, and sure I'm not happy they were bombed. But Big Papi is still an asshole and a roidhead. Adam Sandler still makes mostly shitty movies. Same with Affleck. And the Hancock building houses many financial hooligans. And if we're going to live in fear, there's no reason for runners to be exempt. Hit some golfers too, keep things fair.
HEY NOW HEY NOW WHAT THE FUCK ... HEY NOW!!!!!!

Its the cheering and applause that saddens me most. This isn't something anyone won. Everyone lost. There is no cause for celebration.

Yes Sir ... on that note we are in FULL agreement!

Thanks for your response! I appreciate the exchange of ideas

DD

[Doove]

Originally Posted by JONBALLS

eventually were going to end up with me asking you for the links ...AGAIN..

The only "link" i need is post #23.

Originally Posted by JONBALLS

I was at this point in our conversation 3 posts ago but I will drag you along as usual

You're the one going around making my point for me. So who's draggin' who?