BOOM! There goes the market!

[cookie man]

Obama did inherit a mess primarily caused by Wall Street crashing our economy with toxic mortages. Then through failed economic agendas he made it significantly worse. America showed their desire for fiscal responsibility by electing conservatives and Tea Party politicians in 2010.

The Senate Dems and Obama were safe because they were still leftovers from the 2008 anti-Bush vote. Then we lucky Americans were stuck with extreme opposites in the Senate and House. Therefore gridlock.

The best plan to me sounds like...
-keep tax cuts
-tax reform for the 50% of Americans who pay taxes
-significantly reduce entitlements
-get a plan and stick to it or we go down further

The S&P did warn the Obama administration what they needed to do to avoid a downgrade and through lack of leadership and the absence of a plan, the administration failed miserably. Still it's time to stop accessing blame and start fixing the problem. The good part I guess is that only one of the three rating agencies downgraded us.

Do you think America is ready for another conservative Texas governor as our next President? It even scares me...but not as much as the nightmare of another Obama term.

[TallGuy6]

it still amazes me at the lack of knowledge of the facts. Blaming Bush for deficits is like giving credit to Obama for reducing unemployment by eliminating job openings so people just fall off the rolls of those being counted. Take at look at the make up of Congress while debt was accumulating. Sure, the President either signs the bill or not, but The House and Senate decide how much is going to be spent. Ms. Pelosi racked up more debt than any other Speaker in history. Harry Reid agreed to each and every penny. Bush signed some of it, Obama added more. Lastly, we haven't had a Budget in over 2 yrs....more Bush fault? Think again Francis.

Ask the 50% of the filers why they think others should pay while they pay $0.
If you want to reap the benefits of this country, you should pay tax. Even if it's $1, you should pay. Those getting "welfare" in the form of more tax refunds than they pay in tax should be first to step up. You should *never* get more back than you paid in. If you think those people deserve welfare, call it that. But don't change the tax code to give more back than is paid in.

[IIFFOFRDB]

Originally Posted by Lust4xxxLife

US credit rating downgraded. Bend over and get ready for what's going to happen on Monday.

S&P was clear on the reasons for the downgrade... Both parties are to blame:

1. The skyrocketing deficit under the Bush administration.

2. The failure of the Obama administration to take aggressive reform actions.

3. The failure of the Republicans to accept that increased revenue is required. Specifically mentioned was the failure to eliminate personal and corporate loopholes.

4. The fact that Washington couldn't resolve the debt ceiling crisis without the pressure of a deadline and that it took until the last day to avoid defaults.

5. The debt ceiling deal was not aggressive enough.

6. General lack of confidence in the governance of the nation. I couldn't agree more.

We need to get rid of Republicans and Democrats and bring back Conservatives and Liberals.

I think Conservitives and Liberals are the problem. TRUE Republicans and Old SCHOOL Democrates could be the solution. IMO

[TexTushHog]

[quote=cookie man;1545334America showed their desire for fiscal responsibility by electing conservatives and Tea Party politicians in 2010.[/quote]

How in hell can you say that??!!! The fuckin' Republicans think that we can be a first rate nation with a effective tax rate in the basement. That's just fuckin' nuts. Look at the chart. If we're going to compete as a country against German, the UK, Singapore, S. Korea, etc., we've got a have a tax rate that is close to theirs. Not in the cellar with Mexico and Chile. Jesus!!

[cookie man]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

How in hell can you say that??!!! The fuckin' Republicans think that we can be a first rate nation with a effective tax rate in the basement. That's just fuckin' nuts.

I can say that Tush because that's what happened. Even Obama said America had sent a message. In fact if we had adopted the Ryan or Tea Party recommendations, we would not have been downgraded.

We do need to redo our tax system...flat tax or whatever. Does it not bother you that only 50% of Americans pay taxes? It is amazing that the Bush tax cuts have lasted this long. He first pushed for them in 2000 when we had a surplus and thought the extra money belonged to the people and not the government. Remember he inherited a smaller recession in 2000 when he took over.

Now is not the time to raise taxes. We don't have the money for more stimulus. Obama's stimulus plan showed little results for the amounts we put in. It doesn't make sense to spend good money ( borrowed though) after bad. Corporate America seems to be doing better. If they continue to do better, they will do more hiring. What Obama can do is come up with a plan so they will have direction from the feds.

[cptjohnstone]

TTH.. those countries with the higher tax rates have national health care

[Lust4xxxLife]

Originally Posted by cptjohnstone

TTH.. those countries with the higher tax rates have national health care

You say that like you think it's a bad thing. Our health care is ranked 37.

[Lust4xxxLife]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

How in hell can you say that??!!! The fuckin' Republicans think that we can be a first rate nation with a effective tax rate in the basement. That's just fuckin' nuts. Look at the chart. If we're going to compete as a country against German, the UK, Singapore, S. Korea, etc., we've got a have a tax rate that is close to theirs. Not in the cellar with Mexico and Chile. Jesus!!

TTH: I share your frustration and thank you for the input. Nice to see data instead of simple ill-informed dogma.

[Lust4xxxLife]

Originally Posted by cookie man

In fact if we had adopted the Ryan or Tea Party recommendations, we would not have been downgraded.

That's insane. If we had adopted either, not only would we have been downgraded, unemployment would have skyrocketed, existing tax revenues would have plummeted, and we'd be in a far more precarious situation than we're in right now. Remember, a major reason why the S&P downgraded us is because the debt ceiling plan didn't deal with entitlements and tax subsidies. It sends a message that we don't get it. Ryan doesn't get it. The Tea Party are still working on spelling and history, let alone economics.

The Republicans have no fucking clue. The Tea Party are worse. Together, they are the American Taliban. Look at the candidates! They're all a joke.

The Democrats are no better. They had majority control of the government for two years and they did nothing with it. Pelosi has done a ton of damage to this country. Obama is a smart guy who knows what needs to be done, but he doesn't have the balls to make it happen. He's too worried about making everyone happy. Fuck that. WRONG GUY FOR THE JOB. Kick his ass out of office and bring in somebody who will call Boner a crybaby and explain to the American people what would happen if the stupid sons of bitches in the Tea Party got their way. ENOUGH!

We're fucked. Imbeciles are in charge. 2012 is almost here. The Mayans may have been right. LOL.

/end rant.

[Lust4xxxLife]

Originally Posted by IIFFOFRDB

I think Conservitives and Liberals are the problem. TRUE Republicans and Old SCHOOL Democrates could be the solution. IMO

That's exactly what I meant.

Current Republicans are retards and current Democrats are eunuchs.

Wish we could go back to the basics and focus on fiscal and social policies instead of Christian and Hippie agendas.

[TexTushHog]

Originally Posted by cptjohnstone

TTH.. those countries with the higher tax rates have national health care

Every country but one has national health care. And if we had it, we would 1) have a better health care system; and 2) wouldn't have a ridiculous health care bill that only further enriches insurance companies.

Originally Posted by cookie man

We don't have the money for more stimulus. Obama's stimulus plan showed little results for the amounts we put in.

First, the stimulus was what kept us from having a second depression. Second, it was poorly designed in a foolish effort to attract Republican support. Therefore much of it was wasted on unproductive tax cuts. Had it been all stimulus instead of tax giveaways, and had it been about 50% larger as the data suggested it needed to be, we might well be out of the woods now.

[mansfield]

Originally Posted by TTH

If we're going to compete as a country against German, the UK, Singapore, S. Korea, etc., we've got a have a tax rate that is close to theirs.

It has nothing to do with how high your tax rate is, it has to do with where you spend the money you DO have.

Some of the countries you list have very high tax rates because they are at a point where less than 50% of the population is actually paying taxes, the larger percentage is taking from entitlement programs and other things.

Have to look at more than just the tax rate.

[cookie man]

Well I hope our elected officials catch pure hell when they come back to work. They won't be up against such an 11th hour deal and should have time to come up with a viable compromise. Otherwise off with their heads...lol.

This could be a defining moment for Obama to prove that he is a leader. He could salvage his re-election hopes by getting involved with both parties and make tough decisions. The politicians are worried about getting re-elected. Their chances will improve greatly if they put the American people's best interest above their stubbornness. I think the American people will appreciate compromise over ideology.

[Lust4xxxLife]

Originally Posted by mansfield

It has nothing to do with how high your tax rate is, it has to do with where you spend the money you DO have.

Some of the countries you list have very high tax rates because they are at a point where less than 50% of the population is actually paying taxes, the larger percentage is taking from entitlement programs and other things.

Have to look at more than just the tax rate.

Yes, you have to look at more than just tax rate, but tax rate is part of the equation.

We could fix health care spending AND end up with better health care service at the same time. Why don't we? Because the Insurance companies have a lot to lose and hence spend a lot on lobbying and scare campaigns.

We could cut defense spending in half and rebuild a defense capability that would make us safer against modern threats than we are today. The current defense model is a hangover from the Cold War days. Why don't we do this? Because the military complex is powerful and too many military contractors and vendors have a lot to lose... and hence spend a lot on lobbying and scare campaigns.

There is so much that could be done... but won't be... until the wheels fall off and it becomes unavoidable.

[mansfield]

There is so much that could be done... but won't be... until the wheels fall off and it becomes unavoidable.

That's my fear, and I think that's reflected in the panic we saw today. The whole world sat and waited for us to do something, anything, in the right direction.

And we pretty much did nothing at all. That says that the only way it will get fixed is for it to all collapse and be rebuilt from scratch.

And the reaction from our electeds? It's the Tea Parties fault, it's S&Ps fault, it's the Democrats, it's the Republicans. Bullshit. They are all equally to blame, and so are we for putting them in office year after year.

The next few years are not going to be pretty.