Obama Speech Bombs ! Here is His Obit !

[TheDaliLama]

Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

I agree very good speech- he had good ideas that even Republicans have supported in the past- nuff said- get to work Congress!!!!

You guys are even dumber than BO. All his plan does is put a bandaide on the problem. It doesn't get to the problem of growth. No one is going hire someone because of a tax insintive if there is no growth. Training people for jobs will not get anyone hired if there is no growth. The new spending he has proposed for projects is for his Union thug buddies.



He said, "My plan is completely paid for" and then "I'm tasking the deficit cutting commission with finding the funds for this plan as well!"

What the heck!? NOTHING is paid for. He's telling other folks to do it. NOthing he says is connected to anything else he says.

"Pass this bill right away" like over and over and over - I swear, I thought I was watching a Saturday Night Live skit. The whole thing was pathetic. This guy doesn't get it. Temporary measures are not going to convince me to hire more employees when the Obamacare monster is just around the corner.

If I were one of his handlers I would take the Big Red Panzer Bus and try a I Shot bin Laden Tour. Try the dead body bounce again. Who knows it could work.

I'll even bet those dead body pictures of OBL show up in October.

I hope so...I'm going to have a new mouse pad made out of it.

[TexTushHog]

Originally Posted by TheDaliLama

He said, "My plan is completely paid for" and then "I'm tasking the deficit cutting commission with finding the funds for this plan as well!"

That's not what he said. He said that he was sending a proposal to the Deficit cutting commission Monday that would show where the administration proposed getting the $1.5 T required by the budget ceiling deal plus the $500 B for the jobs bill. He's not asking the deficit commission to find the cuts. He's sending them his proposal as to where they can be found.

However, you are partially correct about the issues with growth. However, the $500B stimulus of the jobs bill should help (but not solve) on the issue of growth. Health care spending is part of the issue, but the Obama health care bill actually cuts costs overall. It may shift who pays those costs, but it doesn't increase overall costs.

As the owner of a private business that has provided high quality health insurance for it's employees for over 15 years (fully paid for by the company, by the way -- not one red cent of employee contribution for the premium) I'm delighted that some of the scum that own businesses and don't pay for health insurance for their employees are going to be stuck paying. It's high time. They have a competitive advantage over me and can undercut my prices. And, via my insurance premiums, I'm paying for health care for their employees who go to emergency rooms and have to be treated. It's not upsetting this business owner at all. I expect to see my premiums go down, because I provide good insurance to my employees and always have.

[Laz]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

As the owner of a private business that has provided high quality health insurance for it's employees for over 15 years (fully paid for by the company, by the way -- not one red cent of employee contribution for the premium) I'm delighted that some of the scum that own businesses and don't pay for health insurance for their employees are going to be stuck paying. It's high time. They have a competitive advantage over me and can undercut my prices. And, via my insurance premiums, I'm paying for health care for their employees who go to emergency rooms and have to be treated. It's not upsetting this business owner at all. I expect to see my premiums go down, because I provide good insurance to my employees and always have.

I commend you for taking care of your employees. I have no faith that Obamacare will end up saving you anything. Please let me know if your premiums drop as a result of Obamacare. I actually hope I am wrong but for a lot of reasons I do not think I will be.

[TheDaliLama]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

That's not what he said. He said that he was sending a proposal to the Deficit cutting commission Monday that would show where the administration proposed getting the $1.5 T required by the budget ceiling deal plus the $500 B for the jobs bill. He's not asking the deficit commission to find the cuts. He's sending them his proposal as to where they can be found.


.

Dude, that's a bunch of double talk. Some one else is still finding the cuts. Not BO.


I also bet that $500 becomes a Trillion.

You Obama apologists kill me

[CuteOldGuy]

Sorry, Tex. I'm not an idiot. Your employees pay every dime of that health insurance. If their labor doesn't exceed their cost of wages, taxes and insurance, they wouldn't be working for you. It's part of their wages.; It''s a nice thing to do, but don't try to fool people into thinking the employees don't pay for it.

[TexTushHog]

Originally Posted by Laz

I commend you for taking care of your employees. I have no faith that Obamacare will end up saving you anything. Please let me know if your premiums drop as a result of Obamacare. I actually hope I am wrong but for a lot of reasons I do not think I will be.

Over a long enough period, if it's fully implemented, they will drop versus what they otherwise would be. They have to. Because right now, I'm paying for the uninsured. That cost will now be more broadly borne via the taxpayers in general rather than by those who do the morally correct thing by paying for insurance for their employees.

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Sorry, Tex. I'm not an idiot. Your employees pay every dime of that health insurance. If their labor doesn't exceed their cost of wages, taxes and insurance, they wouldn't be working for you. It's part of their wages.; It''s a nice thing to do, but don't try to fool people into thinking the employees don't pay for it.

So my two minimum wage employees wouldn't work for me if I didn't pay for their insurance? Bullshit!!! I could fill their jobs all day with minimum wage employees and not pay their insurance. And most law firms in my town don't pay a dime of insurance for their employees. I could announce tomorrow that I'm no longer paying for insurance and I wouldn't loose one employee. Likewise, I could hire legal assistants away from those law firms that don't pay insurance. (Not only because of insurance, but because I pay higher wages.)

You make the mistake of assuming that I hire labor at the cheapest possible price. I don't. I pay a living to my key employees. And even for the few McEmployees who make minimum wage, I make sure that they have health insurance. And very good healthy insurance with very low deductibles. I do it because it the right thing to do. Not because I have to. I haven't had a full time employee quit in over ten years. The last one to quit has asked to come back several times. And I've never laid one off because I needed to make more than I already make. I know these days that's an unAmerican way to do business, but some of us still do it that way.

Originally Posted by TheDaliLama

Dude, that's a bunch of double talk. Some one else is still finding the cuts. Not BO.


I also bet that $500 becomes a Trillion.

You Obama apologists kill me

What the hell else to you want him to do? Draft the bill for the Committee and hold their damn hands while the vote? Take them to the men's room to take a leak before the vote?

A concrete proposal for what taxes and cuts he proposes is about as specific as it gets short of actually drafting the bill.

[TexTushHog]

An excellent column by Paul Krugman wherein he summarizes the Republican's proposals for job creation:
In early 2009, as the new Obama administration tried to come to grips with the crisis it inherited, you heard two main lines from critics on the right. First, they argued that we should rely on monetary policy rather than fiscal policy — that is, that the job of fighting unemployment should be left to the Fed. Second, they argued that fiscal actions should take the form of tax cuts rather than temporary spending.


Now, however, leading Republicans are against tax cuts — at least if they benefit working Americans rather than rich people and corporations.


And they’re against monetary policy, too. In Wednesday night’s Republican presidential debate, Mitt Romney declared that he would seek a replacement for Ben Bernanke, the Fed chairman, essentially because Mr. Bernanke has tried to do something (though not enough) about unemployment. And that makes Mr. Romney a moderate by G.O.P. standards, since Rick Perry, his main rival for the presidential nomination, has suggested that Mr. Bernanke should be treated “pretty ugly.”



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/09/op...r-on-fire.html

In other words, they against everything.

[Laz]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

Over a long enough period, if it's fully implemented, they will drop versus what they otherwise would be. They have to. Because right now, I'm paying for the uninsured. That cost will now be more broadly borne via the taxpayers in general rather than by those who do the morally correct thing by paying for insurance for their employees.

They do not have to. Just look at the cost of medical care over the past three decades. Most people are insured. Those that are not drive the cost up some but not a huge amount. Have the costs of any medical services covered by insurance come down? They have gone up and will continue to go up because insurance removes the normal free market behaviors from the services. Unless that changes the incentives that cause prices to go down in a free market will not exist.

Try changing the insurance you offer your employees to a high deductable plan with an HSA. You can probably give them money to put in the HSA each year for close to what you pay in premiums now. Let them know the money in the HSA is theirs to keep if they do not spend it and see if they start shopping for low cost medical providers and evaluate whether the doctors visit is really necessary or just a nice to have. Those are the behaviors that will get the cost of health care down.

[TexTushHog]

Originally Posted by Laz

Try changing the insurance you offer your employees to a high deductable plan with an HSA. You can probably give them money to put in the HSA each year for close to what you pay in premiums now. Let them know the money in the HSA is theirs to keep if they do not spend it and see if they start shopping for low cost medical providers and evaluate whether the doctors visit is really necessary or just a nice to have. Those are the behaviors that will get the cost of health care down.

There's a great idea. Tempt my employees to avoid necessary medical care by bribing them with money. Take one of the two that make minimum wage. She has a asthmatic daughter who needs $300 worth of medicine a month. So now she faces the temptation of stiffing her daughter on the medicine to get extra cash on the side. That's great public policy.

As for those that make better incomes, why should they be punished financially if they get sick? Or be tempted to forgo a checkup that is medically recommended to pocket some extra bucks? I want them to go to the doc when they need to and when they're supposed to. Not sit around and figure out how to game the system to get extra cash.

And we have at least three employees where they, or a dependent, have serious chronic medical conditions such that the $3,000 would be eaten up well before the year ends. Maybe four, depending on the year. The only person it would save money for would be me. (And I am, BTW, one who would loose out on the $3,000 limit.)

And how many medical providers do you really think there are in a town of 12,000? You think we're likely to find "low cost" providers if we look hard enough? We're lucky there are doctors at all. If you need any kind of specialist, you have to drive 20 miles each way, or sixty, depending on the specialty. The few docs in town charge what they charge. And they need every penny of insurance reimbursement they can have because probably 2/3 to 3/4 of their patients are Medicare and Medicaid patients. Without a hand full of full pay folks, they'd go broke and leave town.

[Laz]

In small towns or people with chronic conditions you might be right about the ability to shop or the HSA. However, most small businesses do not have multiple employees with expensive chronic conditions. Using your personal situation and applying it nationwide is not effective.

[Whirlaway]

Here is the 1st paragraph of Obama's political obituary............

http://hotlineoncall.nationaljournal...publican-2.php

and the story line continues.........(front page NYTs)..

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/11/us...bama.html?_r=1

[gnadfly]

Looks like we are going to have to pass this jobs bill to find out who pays for it.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

Looks like we are going to have to pass this UNIONS' jobs bill to find out who pays for it.

There, I fixed it for you.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

I expect to see my premiums go down, because I provide good insurance to my employees and always have.

The "sales pitch" for the "Texas Medical Malpractice Bailout" in the form of a Texas Constitutional amendment with enabling legislation was that it would lower doctor's insurance premiums, which would lower health care costs.

The "sales pitch" for National Health Care is that it will lower health care costs, plus, it will increase jobs.

The fallacy of your dream are your assumptions that your "high quality" carrier will still be providing health care coverage to you, and that the "high quality" physicians will still be the providers. I still agree with Obaminable's comparison ...

the U.S. Postal Service.

That "snake oil" is smooth going down, but it is a bitch when it comes out the other end. You haven't even got the "rumbling" feeling yet.

[CuteOldGuy]

Ah, Tex. If your minimum wage employees didn't return to you as least as much as you pay them, plus their insurance premiums, would you still employ them? Knowing that you are losing money on them for each hour they work? No. Unless you're an idiot, which is entirely possible. You are not providing insurance for them, they are paying for it by their labor for you. Econ 101.