Unemployment Back Up

[Grifter]

@ Doove I dont think its a practice specific to the Obama administration but its a larger chunk of people currently than it was pre Recession and I think that total jobs pre recession vs now are a better indicator of where we are in the recovery than the standard unemployment totals that get the bulk of attention. As to your second question there is simply no way to know that anymore than if you asked what Bush's first 4 years might look like if there had been no 9/11. Its too large an event to intelligently address the alternative in this setting.

@C7 sounds about right.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by Grifter

@ Doove....As to your second question there is simply no way to know that anymore than if you asked what Bush's first 4 years might look like if there had been no 9/11. Its too large an event to intelligently address the alternative in this setting.

Exactly my point.

[CJ7]

IMO taxes arent so much the problem as is the price of labor

corporate tax loopholes whether here or there ruduce rates down to almost nothing for the big boys ie GE ... the workers here amke 10-12$ an hour, the workers there make netx to nothing compared.

if the government was really interested in bringing the workforce back to this country, raise the living shit out of taxes on corps who offshore THEN cut taxes for companies who are here.

Maytag and Levi's go to mexico for cheap labor and take advantage of corporate tax loopholes? ... uh, no.

an example, Bush took the tariff off of chinese steel ... where are the steel towns today? Ghost City thats where.

my 2

[CuteOldGuy]

Good idea, CJ. The floggings will continue until morale improves. Is raising taxes the solution for everything? But go ahead. See how it works.

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Olivia, you know I love you, but that is what a person goes into business for. To make money. That is economics, and that is capitalism. Those businesses have no obligation to stay here and lose money. What we have to do is create a business climate that will bring them back. There are ways to do that without sacrificing living wages and safe working conditions, but it would mean that government would have to give up some control, and our current batch of Democrats and Republicans won't do that. They NEED businesses to go overseas, so they can continue to demagogue class warfare issues. If Washington really wanted businesses to stay here, they would do something about it. But they won't.

Of course it's about the money. That what business is for.

I understand that. However, with no jobs but service jobs and corporate raiders, who is going to buy the OEMs' products. Laissez-faire Capitalism is wrong. There have to be checks on the greedy. The system won't work with too extreme of greedy capitalism or political, liberal elitism. It's all designed to run somewhere in the bell of the curve with checks on either side. We don't' have that not.

I believe the Democrats are encouraging and succeeding in class warfare, but I do not believe it is their actual agenda. The Republicans are the party of fear (McCarthyism, religiosity, immigrant hatred, etc.) which I believe is their actual agenda, and the Democrats counter with class warfare. This has been going on quite obviously since WWII.

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Good idea, CJ. The floggings will continue until morale improves. Is raising taxes the solution for everything? But go ahead. See how it works.

you missed the most important part of the equation .. cut taxes

stay fucking home, create jobs, get tax cuts, the economy improves followed by MORALE

too fucking logical isnt it?

[gnadfly]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Nobody is shipping jobs overseas. Companies are turning to overseas sites because the business climate here is getting more and more unfriendly, as politicians use class warfare to buy votes.

Most businesses would rather stay here, but as long as the government thinks it has to tax and regulate everything it can, they will continue to move to more pleasant climates. Sorry, those are just facts.

Jeffery Immelt, head of GE and Obama's Job Czar is shipping jobs overseas. So's my company. They want the revenue of doing business here but not the liability. At some point, the Democratic politicians will realize that they can't get income tax from people who don't have jobs.

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

I was in manufacturing for years. The jobs went over seas to save money period. Labor's cheaper, no overhead besides warehousing if the OEM even does that, and no outlay of money until at least thirty days after delivery. No OSHA, no unemployment insurance, no good working conditions, no sexual, age, race harassment may be friendly business climate, but they are cost drivers also. Follow the money. That's where the answer always is.

absolutely Olivia.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/techn...e-union/47844/

Not long ago, Apple boasted that its products were made in America. Today, few are. Almost all of the 70 million iPhones, 30 million iPads and 59 million other products Apple sold last year were manufactured overseas.
Why can't that work come home? Mr. Obama asked.
Mr. Jobs's reply was unambiguous. "Those jobs aren't coming back," he said, according to another dinner guest.

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Olivia, you know I love you, but that is what a person goes into business for. To make money. That is economics, and that is capitalism. Those businesses have no obligation to stay here and lose money. What we have to do is create a business climate that will bring them back. There are ways to do that without sacrificing living wages and safe working conditions, but it would mean that government would have to give up some control, and our current batch of Democrats and Republicans won't do that. They NEED businesses to go overseas, so they can continue to demagogue class warfare issues. If Washington really wanted businesses to stay here, they would do something about it. But they won't.

So what would Washington do that isn't in the post Olivia listed COG? Here's my suggestion: institute Social Security, Welfare, OSHA, et al in China, India, Russia, Indonesia, etc

Originally Posted by CJ7

IMO taxes arent so much the problem as is the price of labor

corporate tax loopholes whether here or there ruduce rates down to almost nothing for the big boys ie GE ... the workers here amke 10-12$ an hour, the workers there make netx to nothing compared.

if the government was really interested in bringing the workforce back to this country, raise the living shit out of taxes on corps who offshore THEN cut taxes for companies who are here.

Maytag and Levi's go to mexico for cheap labor and take advantage of corporate tax loopholes? ... uh, no.

an example, Bush took the tariff off of chinese steel ... where are the steel towns today? Ghost City thats where.

my 2

Some of this was addressed in Obama's 2008 campaign promises. He's done nothing...even put Immelt in charge as Job Czar. Heck Obama won't even listen to his Job Creation Committee's suggestions. They are frustrated with BHO and many contributed generously to his campaign. Yes, I remember what you said about Obama CBJ7...but you brought up Bush. US Steel was in trouble long before Bush II.

BTW, part of the reason price of labor here is so high IS taxes. Its all part of the cost of doing business in the old USA.

[CJ7]

gotcha gonadfly

[IIFFOFRDB]

Originally Posted by CJ7

gotcha gonadfly

You ain't got shit. FUCK YOU. Are you a Union Pilot? Are you on the Crack Pipe?

[CuteOldGuy]

We don't have capitalism in the US now. We have "crony capitalism" which is simply a nice term for fascism, which is the marriage of big business and government.

Now if you want to hate on my solution, start another thread. The answer to the economy is threefold: 1. End the Fed, 2. Repeal the 16th Amendment, and 3. Institute the FairTax. If these things were accomplished, the US would see an economic boom the likes of which have never been experienced. But look at all the control government would have to give up, so it won't happen. If it did, there would be many more jobs than workers, equilibrium wages would increase, demand for goods and services would rise, resulting in downward pressure on prices, and our trade deficit would disappear, almost overnight.

But who would be in control? That's right, the people would be in control. Congress will never let that happen.

[CuteOldGuy]

My bad. Increasing demand will result in an upward pressure on prices, but as supply increases to meet that demand, the pressure will be downward. The price level would likely remain fairly stable. However, purchasing power would also increase, due to no taxes being taken out of a person's paycheck. What would likely happen would be either price stability, or a small increase. However, purchasing power would increase more, resulting in more "bang for your buck" as it were.

Sorry for the confusion.