OBAMA'S CLAIM OF HISTORICAL GREATNESS - YOU DECIDE....

[I B Hankering]

President Chester Arthur backed the Pendleton Civil Service Act which ended the inefficient and corrupt practices associated with Jackson’s ‘spoils system’.

President Theodore Roosevelt’s achievements: Nobel Peace Prize for actually negotiating peace in Asia (unlike an obnoxious, modern recipient). Known as the “Trust Buster”, TR worked with the labor movement to achieve better working conditions and higher wages. Issued the Roosevelt Corollary to the Monroe Doctrine ensuring European nations and colonialism were kept a bay in the Western hemisphere. Initiated construction on the Panama Canal. Initiated major advances in U.S. conservation policy.

President Harding achieved a major foreign policy coup by calling the Washington Conference and initiating arms limitation agreements that keep world peace throughout the 1920s. Harding reconstituted American civil liberties by repudiating the Espionage Act of 1917 employed Wilson to unconstitutionally imprison political foes, e.g. Debs and others: whom Harding released from prison. He also averted a post war recession and presided over a ‘roaring’ domestic economy.

President Coolidge also presided over a roaring domestic economy.

President Truman ended WWII. That’s not insignificant in anybody’s book. He helped initiate and backed the war crimes proceedings at Nuremberg and in Tokyo. Initiated the Marshall Plan in Europe. Advanced the Truman Doctrine. The Berlin Airlift. He initiated civil rights legislation and integrated the U.S. military. Helped create the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO). Defended S. Korea against invasion.

President Eisenhower: Truce in Korea (still holding). Interstate Highway System. Civil Rights Act of 1957. Established NASA. Mobilized the National Guard to protect the Little Rock Nine.


These men far exceeded Obama's accomplishments in both the foreign and the domestic arena.

[JD Barleycorn]

All true, but where any of them biracial?

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

All true, but where any of them biracial?

There were rumors about Harding. No Lie.

[Munchmasterman]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

President Chester Arthur backed the Pendleton Civil Service Act which ended the inefficient and corrupt practices associated with Jackson’s ‘spoils system’.

President Theodore Roosevelt’s achievements: Nobel Peace Prize for actually negotiating peace in Asia (unlike an obnoxious, modern recipient). Known as the “Trust Buster”, TR worked with the labor movement to achieve better working conditions and higher wages. Issued the Roosevelt Corollary to the Monroe Doctrine ensuring European nations and colonialism were kept a bay in the Western hemisphere. Initiated construction on the Panama Canal. Initiated major advances in U.S. conservation policy.

President Harding achieved a major foreign policy coup by calling the Washington Conference and initiating arms limitation agreements that keep world peace throughout the 1920s. Harding reconstituted American civil liberties by repudiating the Espionage Act of 1917 employed Wilson to unconstitutionally imprison political foes, e.g. Debs and others: whom Harding released from prison. He also averted a post war recession and presided over a ‘roaring’ domestic economy.

President Coolidge also presided over a roaring domestic economy.

President Truman ended WWII. That’s not insignificant in anybody’s book. He helped initiate and backed the war crimes proceedings at Nuremberg and in Tokyo. Initiated the Marshall Plan in Europe. Advanced the Truman Doctrine. The Berlin Airlift. He initiated civil rights legislation and integrated the U.S. military. Helped create the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO). Defended S. Korea against invasion.

President Eisenhower: Truce in Korea (still holding). Interstate Highway System. Civil Rights Act of 1957. Established NASA. Mobilized the National Guard to protect the Little Rock Nine.


These men far exceeded Obama's accomplishments in both the foreign and the domestic arena.

I’m not arguing degree. He did not say he was better as this thread alludes. He did not say or imply his is the best overall except for the 3 mentioned. He said in 2 areas he could put his accomplishments up against them.

You have to agree and understand the subject matter/statement of any debate or discussion. His statement in no way places his as the 4th best presidency.

Just curious. What do you think about the nationally read conservative pundit I included who was wrong on every point he brought up? Not a little wrong. Wildly wrong.
Aren’t there enough real issues without making some up or lying about easily checked facts?

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by Munchmasterman

I’m not arguing degree. He did not say he was better as this thread alludes. He did not say or imply his is the best overall except for the 3 mentioned. He said in 2 areas he could put his accomplishments up against them.

You have to agree and understand the subject matter/statement of any debate or discussion. His statement in no way places his as the 4th best presidency.

There's no misunderstanding what he said:

"Steve, you know, I would put our legislative and foreign policy accomplishments in our first two years against any president -- with the possible exceptions of Johnson, F.D.R., and Lincoln -- just in terms of what we've gotten done in modern history." Obama.

Obama said he'd put his record up against any previous president's record, except for the three presidents he mentioned. He implied those three have a better record; also implied, all the others don't. He's saying he has accomplished more, and is therefore superior than the others. The only qualification he offered was to say he was comparing himself to other presidents in the 'modern history', but then he includes Lincoln.

Originally Posted by Munchmasterman

Just curious. What do you think about the nationally read conservative pundit I included who was wrong on every point he brought up? Not a little wrong. Wildly wrong.
Aren’t there enough real issues without making some up or lying about easily checked facts?

I've never heard of this guy Hoft. He and what you've quoted has to be taken with a grain of salt, like MSNBC's anchor Thomas Roberts trying to tie Mitt Romney to the KKK. All of them seek to rile.

[Munchmasterman]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

There's no misunderstanding what he said: By you there is.

"Steve, you know, I would put our legislative and foreign policy accomplishments in our first two years against any president -- with the possible exceptions of Johnson, F.D.R., and Lincoln -- just in terms of what we've gotten done in modern history." Obama.

Obama said he'd put his record up against any previous president's record(in 2 and only 2 of many categories), except for the three presidents he mentioned.Yes He implied those three have a better record;Yes also implied, all the others don't. No. He said 3 were better than the rest in those 2 areas.He's saying he has accomplished more, No he isn't. What word/s indicate more? He said he has accomplihished as much as any (except the 3). and is therefore superior than the others. Another leap. What word/s say or imply superiorThe only qualification he offered was to say he was comparing himself to other presidents in the 'modern history', but then he includes Lincoln.

I've never heard of this guy Hoft. He and what you've quoted has to be taken with a grain of salt, like MSNBC's anchor Thomas Roberts trying to tie Mitt Romney to the KKK. All of them seek to rile.

You can't imply words into his mouth. Just because he said "against" and not "equal to or less than" doesn't mean more.

The subject of this thread is incorrect from the beginning. He clearly states he is referring to 2 and only 2 areas/categories. He rates the presidencies of the 3 ahead in only the 2 areas, not overall.

This should be obvious since he included Johnson.

Nothing Obama said implies he believes his is the 4th best overall presidency.

[CuteOldGuy]

Geez, Munch. "He said 'blue', but didn't really mean 'blue'" I think you have od'd on the kool aid.

[Munchmasterman]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

If Bush II had been able to fight those two wars without the left backbiting, they would have been over on his term and OBL would be dead.

Complete and total bullshit.

1. He finished the Iraqi war a long time ago. I saw the "Mission Accomplished" banner on the ship.

2. Bush sent our troops in the front door and let the Afghanis watch the back door. Who would have thought some of the locals might be helping bin Laden?
Several SO teams armed with radios (the deadliest weapon ever invented) and laser designators in the mountains behind tora-bora (not many roads going away towards Pakistan) and a B-2 aloft with a bomb bay full of laser guided 1000 pounders. Look for the convoy (he didn't walk to Pakistan) and put a spot on it.
Or take out the roads, making them impassable for vehicles. Find him with a drone and bring in an air strike.
Or any number of things I haven't thought of. Because once he is any kind of distance away, the size of the search area increases to the point where he won't be found.

The key point is there were no US troops on the backside.
The other key point is if he had not gone into Iraq, the war in Afghanistan......would still be going.

Didn’t you know? The left is responsible for global warming, Herman Cain, Sarah Palin, Newt, etc.

[Munchmasterman]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Geez, Munch. "He said 'blue', but didn't really mean 'blue'" I think you have od'd on the kool aid.

Blue? Or do you you mean "blew" as in what you did to your dog?

Ignore his words and read anything you want into it. Keep saying what you think he implied. That still doesn't make it true.

An attorney who doesn't understand the distinction between words and their specific meanings. You must have struck fear into your client and laughter through the halls of justice.

I know I'm wasting my time to ask but if you could point out specifically how I'm wrong...........Gotcha! Wasting my time because I'm right.

At least I B gave examples to back up his statements.

[CuteOldGuy]

Yeah LOL

You got me this time!

It's obvious he didn't mean he was better than 40 other Presidents.

Even though that is clearly what he said!

Congrats on your victory, Munch!

[Munchmasterman]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Yeah LOL

You got me this time! Correct.

It's obvious he didn't mean he was better than 40 other Presidents. Also correct.

Even though that is clearly what he said! Totally wrong. Again.

Congrats on your victory, Munch!Thank you. Considering the opposition, it really was nothing.

I noticed that you don't refute. I used to wonder if it was because you can't or won't.
The answer is all of the above.

[iINDULGE]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

These men far exceeded Obama's accomplishments in both the foreign and the domestic arena.

I think you're comparing apples to oranges. It seems as though you're saying that if Lincoln could help free the slaves, then Obama's a bum because he hasn't done the same thing. You have to look closely at the state of affairs, economy, Senate and House demographic at the time of Obama's presidency. He is this nation's leader, but separation of powers is reminding us that even the President's powers are limited to what Congress approves.

Admittedly, Obama does not walk on water; however, the fact that this country is lead by a man with the blood of a slave cannot be denied or seen as anything less than epic (no other President can conclusively say that).

Obama has single-handedly re-established the United States standing in the world. Obama's administration put an end to America's real life Boogey man, Osama Bin Laden. He's created a rapid response fund for emerging democracies, pressured Israel to end the Gaza blockade, reached a compromise with Switzerland to bolster tax information exchange (of extreme importance).

Also, no President since Kennedy has inspired more Americans under 30, whether voting for or against him, to partake in the political process. Job loss exploded under the Bush administration and had actually improved under Obama. He appointment of first Latina to the Supreme Court. He put an end to the Defense of Marriage Act, which was clearly created for the federal discrimination of homosexuals. He enacted the largest reform of student financial aid in the last 50 years. Last, but not least, he will end the debacle that has been the war in Iraq before his administration ceases.

I'm not saying Obama is the second coming, but let's at least acknowledge that he is taken us in the right direction and that you cannot make a fair comparison until his presidency has ended.

Side note, did you really mention Presidents Chester Arthur, Calvin Coolidge, and Warren Harding?

[CuteOldGuy]

Originally Posted by iINDULGE

Admittedly, Obama does not walk on water; however, the fact that this country is lead by a man with the blood of a slave cannot be denied or seen as anything less than epic (no other President can conclusively say that).



I'm not saying Obama is the second coming, but let's at least acknowledge that he is taken us in the right direction.

First of all, Obama has NO slave blood. His father was Kenyan.

Secondly, the fast road to socialism is the wrong direction.

[CuteOldGuy]

Originally Posted by Munchmasterman

I noticed that you don't refute. I used to wonder if it was because you can't or won't.
The answer is all of the above.

You didn't say anything intelligent enough to refute.

[Munchmasterman]

Originally Posted by iINDULGE

I think you're comparing apples to oranges. It seems as though you're saying that if Lincoln could help free the slaves, then Obama's a bum because he hasn't done the same thing. You have to look closely at the state of affairs, economy, Senate and House demographic at the time of Obama's presidency. He is this nation's leader, but separation of powers is reminding us that even the President's powers are limited to what Congress approves.

Admittedly, Obama does not walk on water; however, the fact that this country is lead by a man with the blood of a slave cannot be denied or seen as anything less than epic (no other President can conclusively say that).

Obama's administration put an end to America's real life Boogey man, Osama Bin Laden. No President since Kennedy has inspired more Americans under 30, whether voting for or against him, to partake in the political process. Job loss exploded under the Bush administration and had actually improved under Obama. He appointment of first Latina to the Supreme Court. He put an end to the Defense of Marriage Act, which was clearly created for the federal discrimination of homosexuals. The World’s opinion of the U.S. has improved sharply under Obama. He enacted the largest reform of student financial aid in the last 50 years. Last, but not least, he will end the debacle that has been the war in Iraq before his administration ceases.

I'm not saying Obama is the second coming, but let's at least acknowledge that he is taken us in the right direction.

Side note, did you really mention Presidents Chester Arthur, Calvin Coolidge, and Warren Harding?

I agree with a lot of your items but it is still apples to oranges in some respects.
For the purposes of this thread, he specifically said in the legislative and foreign policy areas. Many posters take that as an overall rating when it only covers a portion of the job. You provided examples of some of the other areas of the job. He has done some things well and he has screwed the pooch a few times.