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Old 03-26-2011, 02:34 AM   #16
atlcomedy
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Originally Posted by TexTushHog View Post
And I think to use the double Irish tax strategy you have to have an off shore entity in a low tax country to receive the payments from on of the Irish subsidiaries. It's commonly used for IP holdings, I am told by some of my IP clients. There is also something that you can do with a Dutch company too, although I don't profess to understand either.
Not the Irish2X but similar concept...oh and by the way the cooperating Country gets the advantage of all the better paying if not high paying jobs (which in turn stimulates the local economy)coming to town....kind of a corporate version of MSOG for a half hour session....

I'm (way) oversimplifying here, but the way it works at least for European operations...tougher to pull off in the US....is find a friendly governement...set up a Regional "HQ" where all of the "decision-making" takes place.

To facilitate this you do have to put up a front. Have a fancy building, actually relocate the regional officers to the location. Note this is expensive so to Mazo's point not practical for small/medium sized businesses. Actually have these people work and manage from this site. Set up shell companies to "distribute" products across the continent. Pay them a cost plus type of profit margin. For a high margin business most of the profits are retained in the low cost country where a deal is in place...so the German gov't gets a few Marks on the "Distribution" side of the business...all the Germans can tax them on are the profits of the German sub (that ostensibly does nothing but distribute product)....most of the value creation goes lightly taxed.
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Old 03-26-2011, 02:36 AM   #17
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I'm going to have me some fun with this one if any righties chime in!
How can you have fun with the RIGHT people on this issue? The leftists allow this crony-capitalism to happen.....Immelt has his face buried in the lap of the leftist messiah Barak Hussain Obama.....

the RIGHT people believe in natural law, enumerated powers, private property, limited government, free enterprise, federalism, etc. etc.

The Founding Fathers recognized that government was needed to protect people's God-given rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness....they further understood the inherent nature of man running government was incompetence and corruption....their solution to the problem of the need for government that would be corrupt and incompetent was limited government through enumerated powers...by limiting government you limit the opportunity for governmental incompetence and corruption.....these men were political geniuses.....

as Madison said, our system works as long as we are a moral people....that worked for a long time, but the Constitutional firewalls protecting the people were breached....the Constitution will recover but it'll take generations to recover from the likes of Constitutional traitors like FDR, LBJ and BO [did any of you pinko-libs ever listen to BO discuss the Constitution? It's shocking]

the problem of companies like GE engaging in crony capitalism is not small government loving conservatives like me, the problem is with the big government loving pinko-lib statists found in the democrat and Republican parties.......I don't blame companies like GE for feeding at the public trough, I blame government....talk about feeding the trolls!!!! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!
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Old 03-26-2011, 02:39 AM   #18
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General Electric's Harlem Horse Trade

Dan Freed

03/25/11 - 06:02 PM EDT
(GE story updated to clarify reference to taxes.)

NEW YORK (TheStreet) -- General Electric(GE) Chairman and CEO Jeff Immelt and Rep. Charles Rangel (D., N.Y.) might seem like an odd pairing.
GE CEO Jeff Immelt got a big tax break from U.S. Rep. Charles Rangel (D., N.Y.), then gave $11 million to schools in Rangel's district.

Immelt is a Republican who leads a giant corporation based in Fairfield, Conn. -- a town named as one of the preppiest places to live in the U.S. in the 1980 bestseller The Preppy Handbook.
Rangel has represented the decidedly unpreppy neighborhood of Harlem in the U.S. House of Representatives for 40 years.
What the men have -- or at least had -- in common were two things: immense power and a keen interest in tax policy.
Last year, Rangel was censured by his fellow House members and stripped of his chairmanship of the Ways and Means Committee, which oversees tax policy. He isn't even allowed to vote on subcommittees.
His censure came as the result of ethics violations, including the underreporting of assets, failure to pay taxes and using government stationery to solicit donations from companies that had business before him.
General Electric is not thought to be among the companies that received these solicitations on government stationery, but a front-page article in Friday's The New York Times raises some troubling questions about the relationship between Rangel and Immelt, and, by extension, about corporate lobbying and U.S. tax policy.
In May 2008, while Rangel still held his chairmanship, he met with GE tax chief and former U.S. Treasury official John Samuels. Samuels dropped to one knee and begged Rangel to extend a tax break that is especially important to GE, according to the report, which notes that a GE spokeswoman said Samuels was joking.
Rangel was presumably not joking, however, when he changed his position on the issue, known as "active financing," the same day. The chairman's reversal allowed GE and other companies, including Caterpillar(CAT), JPMorgan Chase (JPM), Ford(F) and IBM(IBM) to save an estimated $4 billion annually in taxes.
A month later, Rangel and Immelt were together in Harlem announcing a $30 million donation to benefit New York City schools, $11 million of which would go to institutions in Rangel's district.
Rangel and GE told the Times there was no connection between GE's donation and the tax break, though the article points to what appear to be conflicting statements by Rangel about whether he discussed the donation with GE or Immelt.
These latest suggestions of influence-peddling may mean relatively little to Rangel at this point, because he already has lost much of his authority. Immelt, on the other hand, has become a central figure in President Obama's recent efforts to reach out to business. The president recently named Immelt to a high-profile post as chairmran of the President's Council on Jobs and Competitiveness, which, the Times notes "is expected to discuss corporate taxes."
Rep. Charles Rangel, stripped of power for ethics violations.

Depending on your point of view, Immelt and GE either know everything about taxes or they know very little. Certainly they know very little about paying them. This year's bill for General Electric? Zero. Correction: GE will get a benefit of $3.2 billion.
(What's a tax benefit? GE, which emailed me after this story published (and posted a reply in the comments section below), says it didn't receive a refund. Here is GE's explanation.)
Bank of America(BAC) may be getting nearly $1 billion back for the 2010 tax year, but at least it lost $5.4 billion. GE, on the other hand, earned $14.2 billion.
Asked in 2009 during an investor presentation about how much influence he expected to have in a newly Democratic-controlled government, Immelt suggested GE shareholders shouldn't get their hopes up.
"I'm a Republican," Immelt said. "I mean, let's get that out there. I'm way over here, baby. So, not even close. So, I'm not sure, how much influence." A look at GE's tax bill, though, suggests he's doing just fine.
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Old 03-26-2011, 02:49 AM   #19
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I often read WTF's posts and realize that he doesn't know the difference between a Republican and a Conservative.......having said that, WTF do you have to say about the RIGHT people?
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Old 03-26-2011, 07:04 AM   #20
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bottomline, article says GE pays no US Corporate Income Tax. I bold Corporate Income because it ignore the billions in other taxes GE pays directly or indirectly.
Then shouldn't we also put income tax in bold every time we mention/complain that many Americans pay no income tax, while ignoring all the other taxes they pay?
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Old 03-26-2011, 07:56 AM   #21
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Then shouldn't we also put income tax in bold every time we mention/complain that many Americans pay no income tax, while ignoring all the other taxes they pay?
There Doove, I fixed my similiar posts!



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Damn GE sounds like one of those piss ass folks that don't pay no federal income taxes but pays a shit load of other taxes.

I'm going to have me some fun with this one if any righties chime in!
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Old 03-26-2011, 08:06 AM   #22
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Don't blame GE. Blame the folks who wrote the rules.
Bingo! Except GE bought the guys that wrote the rules.
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Old 03-26-2011, 08:10 AM   #23
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Not the Irish2X but similar concept...oh and by the way the cooperating Country gets the advantage of all the better paying if not high paying jobs (which in turn stimulates the local economy)coming to town....kind of a corporate version of MSOG for a half hour session....
Even more absurd is the fact that the US "tries to" tax the income of Multinationals that they earn outside the country. The net result is that these companies never bring the money home so the US never gets the taxes and we also don't get the money reinvested here. Pretty fucking stupid on our part.
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Old 03-26-2011, 08:17 AM   #24
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What PJ? No complaints against stereotypes or quips that your last review involved a "Double Irish?"

My tax department had many hundred US employees in it. Now it has less than 100. They offshored most of the positions to the Philippines.
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Old 03-26-2011, 11:20 AM   #25
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I'm not going to criticize anything labeled "Irish".
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Old 03-26-2011, 11:27 AM   #26
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So what's the point of this thread? It should not surprise anyone that the large multinationals have hordes of staff making sure they minimize their tax bite.
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Old 03-26-2011, 11:42 AM   #27
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No the irony is that Obama want the GE CEO to make recommendations to improve the tax code.

I love crony capitalism.
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Old 03-26-2011, 11:54 AM   #28
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No the irony is that Obama want the GE CEO to make recommendations to improve the tax code.

I love crony capitalism.
I seem to remember another thread where he was criticized for ignoring the thoughts of the CEO's. You know, the people who supposedly create the jobs?

Guy can't win.
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Old 03-26-2011, 12:11 PM   #29
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GE's basic business has become sucking at the government tit. They are poster boy's for crony capitalism.
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Old 03-26-2011, 12:12 PM   #30
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Asking GE for advise on modifying the tax code is like asking Jack the Ripper's advice on razors.

http://www.nationalreview.com/excheq...x-code-corrupt
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