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Michael8219 · 08-22-2023, 06:18 AM

You should be able to, but the lender will assess your credit and possibly charge fees for a new loan at a higher rate. Or deny a new loan altogether. Although presumably the man could co-sign the loan through your POA but interest rates are higher.

As long as payments are being made, car is insured, etc. you might possibly go the route of keeping everything as it is with nothing happening.

I just think of the potential of “what ifs” which are slim as long as you keep up insurance, renewals, don’t have incidents etc. Sounds like this is the way to go.

Cookiemeister · 08-22-2023, 11:26 AM

Well, this is my first post in almost 2 years after sign up and I'm posting about auto insurance. Sad, but necessary IMO for you Brooke.

I was a licensed producer and sold personal line policies (home, auto, boat, etc) for many years. I was, or kinda still am, an insurance nerd so I’m sorry to tell you this, but you’re going to have a problem with your auto insurance if/when you file a claim. Please note this is not a criticism of you and your situation, just a long 411.

Your auto insurance policy is a contract. Within the declaration pages sent to you every renewal, it will state you must have “insurable interest” on the asset the policy is covering. This means you must own or be co-owner of the car. Per your posts, your name is not on the title and in the event of a claim your insurance carrier will discover this and deny the claim and any payments to you and/or any third parties.

For example: (so many if’s)
If you are in a car accident with another driver and their vehicle, your carrier will discover you do not own the car you were driving and insuring. They will deny the claim because you did not meet the requirements in the agreement for insurable interest.

If you caused the accident and the other driver and/or passenger(s) are injured and require medical treatment, you can be held responsible for payments to reimburse their loss since your auto carrier will not. If these parties file a lawsuit, they could also sue your friend because he/she owns the car and he/she allowed you to drive it. Could they win, I don’t know, but this is America and you can sue anyone for anything in America. I don’t know the type of relationship you have with your fiend, but names will be named and public records will be filed with a lawsuit.

If the car is also totaled, then the lien holder will want to be made whole and have the remaining balance on the note paid. After the carrier denies your claim, they will seek the balance from your friend since he/she is named as the only other owner on the title. He/she will also be in breach of the lien holder’s agreement requiring him/her to keep “valid” auto insurance on the car until the loan is paid off and closed, and the bank is removed from the title. Again, per your comments here, he/she and their lien holder are the only parties with insurable interest on this vehicle per the title filed with the state and named on the loan agreement at this time.

How did this happen?
Well, the representative at your agency should have confirmed you had ownership on the car before writing a policy for you. If they asked and you lied and told them yes, you misrepresented yourself during the application process. If the representative did not ask you and just assumed you have ownership of the car they were probably 1) lazy, 2) didn’t care and just wanted the commission for the sale, or 3) did not retain that knowledge from their training or studies. The definition of insurable interests is insurance 101 and covered and tested on by the state (every state) in order to receive a state license to become a producer. It is also stated in every auto insurance policy regardless of the carrier. Either way, the carrier has grounds to deny a claim and cancel the policy because this condition was not met.

But I pay for the insurance….
This does not matter. They will take your payments without question. First, the carrier’s underwriter did not know you do not have ownership on the car because the application sent to them by your agent represents that you do regardless on how that was determined during your conversations/correspondences with the agent. Second, your lack of ownership after the application had been accepted and written to a policy would not be discovered until an event (claim) requires them to confirm ownership again. At that point they will deny the claim. Do not expect any generosity or charity from an insurance carrier, especially if they are being asked for ten of thousands of dollars for property damage and/or and same or six-figures in medical bills for personal injuries, or a settlement for a loss of life.

The car is registered to me.
It does not matter. The insurance carrier only looks for the names of the owners on the title filed with the state.

The consequences…
I’m not a lawyer, I can’t tell you how any of this would end from a lawsuit in these scenarios, but I can tell you how the insurance carrier will respond.

Your double-check…
This is not easy to read and you have no idea who I am, but you can double check everything I have typed here by calling your agent and asking. However, when I was an agent and I had a insured call me with these questions it threw up red flags. I would confirm (again) if they had insurable interest and entered detailed notes in the system to cover my arse if we found out later our they were lying. For another option, you can call any agent at any carrier in the state and ask them questions like this scenario. Without getting a quote, tell them you’re thinking about buying a car for a friend or relative to drive, someone who does not live in your household. Tell them you will own the car and they will not be on the title, but they want to insure it themselves on their own policy and without you on that policy. Any agent with their salt will tell you that they cannot do this. If they say they can write it, they just want a sale and don’t care about the consequences. If they say they can write it ask them about “insurable interest” and let us know what they floundered out for their explanation. As I said, I was insurance nerd and I always enjoy hearing the BS spouted by bad, “licensed” producers. Oh... on a side note, the CSR’s at the some agencies are not required to have a license and should not be the person answering your questions. They should transfer you to someone who does.

Read your declaration pages, it’s in there. I know it’s probably 30 pages long and a slog to read, but it’s in there.

Sorry for the rainy day news, but you could find yourself in a bad spot with this setup.

MarcellusWalluz · 08-22-2023, 11:36 AM

^The Texas Hammer will step in & take care of Brooke.

Cookiemeister · 08-22-2023, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarcellusWalluz

^The Texas Hammer will step in & take care of Brooke.

LOL, aint nothing like the Texas Hammer to take care of bid'ness. "You're in good hands!"

NordicJag · 08-22-2023, 12:47 PM

As I was scanning cookie's comments (sorry I didn't have the attention span to read it all) a thought popped into my head. How about doing a lease to own type deal. You lease the car for the amount of the payment and then you own it once the note is paid off.

Also, what does his will say? Who is the executor?

Cookiemeister · 08-22-2023, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NordicJag

As I was scanning cookie's comments (sorry I didn't have the attention span to read it all) a thought popped into my head. How about doing a lease to own type deal. You lease the car for the amount of the payment and then you own it once the note is paid off.

Also, what does his will say? Who is the executor?

That's an excellent solution.

Another option would be a Turo rental (https://turo.com/), but he/she would have to carry the insurance which could part of your monthly payments.

Brooke Wilde · 08-22-2023, 03:59 PM

Thanks for all the feedback. I don't have time to reply today, but I absolutely will reply tomorrow.

Michael8219 · 08-22-2023, 04:08 PM

Car insurance coverage follows the vehicle, not the driver. When you allow a friend, family member, or babysitter to borrow your vehicle, they also borrow your car insurance. Your insurance becomes the primary coverage when lending the car to family members or friends.

I did say don’t have incidents but the policyholder can lend his car to Brooke and she should be covered, at least for liability purposes.

mm1972 · 08-23-2023, 10:27 AM

If the title holder is amenable to this, have them complete a VTR-121 beneficiary designation from the DMV - it will not change title to your name UNLESS the title holder dies; but if the title holder does die, title goes to your name.

bigwill832 · 08-23-2023, 12:18 PM

In the end, it's all about what's in black and white and whose name is on it.

Look at it from a third party point of view: If you were told to go pick up that car because the owner died, but some person is standing there with receipts but their name is not the one on the paperwork, what are you going to do? You're going to follow the paperwork.

Brooke Wilde · 08-23-2023, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cookiemeister

Well, this is my first post in almost 2 years after sign up and I'm posting about auto insurance. Sad, but necessary IMO for you Brooke.

I was a licensed producer and sold personal line policies (home, auto, boat, etc) for many years. I was, or kinda still am, an insurance nerd so I’m sorry to tell you this, but you’re going to have a problem with your auto insurance if/when you file a claim. Please note this is not a criticism of you and your situation, just a long 411.

Thank you for taking the time to post.

The insurance is actually in his name. My quote was $768 a month while his is only $189 (the difference in price is still insane to me).

The way the agent explained it to me (she is also a friend of mine) was that I would be covered if anything happened as long as me & the policy holder do not share the same address. That the claim would be treated as though he allowed me to borrow his car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael8219

Car insurance coverage follows the vehicle, not the driver. When you allow a friend, family member, or babysitter to borrow your vehicle, they also borrow your car insurance. Your insurance becomes the primary coverage when lending the car to family members or friends.

That was my understanding as well.

Thanks again for all of your thoughts & assistance with this matter. You guys are always so helpful to me & I greatly appreciate it

Uomo · 08-23-2023, 03:27 PM

Curious, is the "someone" who financed this car for you the same someone "Bobby" you mentioned in your other post?

Brooke Wilde · 08-23-2023, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uomo

Curious, is the "someone" who financed this car for you the same someone "Bobby" you mentioned in your other post?

LOL! Absolutely not. This gentleman is actually someone I met at ... of all places ... Walgreens many years back.

Tiger811 · 08-25-2023, 09:38 AM

bump

Lustnotlove · 09-17-2023, 11:46 AM

Long time no postings.
First thing Brooke, a Power of Attorney doesn’t work after the person is dead.
Second thing is, You can get in Texas a Non-Owner Auto policy, I suggest looking into it.
Third, the loan company really doesn’t care who actually pays, where you should be concerned is the yearly Texas registration and the renewal notices in his name.