Nice-Guy-Itis?

[pyramider]

Originally Posted by Carrie Hillcrest

Why are you so hostile lately? I remember when you first started posting in D&T, you were straightforward but quite civil in expressing your opinions; I kinda liked you. Why the sudden change in posting demeanor?

Also, I can provide several references to attest to just how much I enjoy spending time with men.






I wish I knew which point you meant so I could agree OR disagree with you. Care to clarify?

I did not read any hostility in his response. Frustration from being a nice guy, yes.

Calling a woman a schmuck after she gets treated poorly by a bad boy is akin to kicking someone when they are down. That would be counterproductive of what your goal is . . . getting laid.

[Tiffany Cums]

In reality, we want a nice guy, yes....

In bed, we want non timid, agressive guys who knows what they want and are not afraid to take it. Don't ask, if we don't want you to do something, we will tell you...just take it. Devour us like the starving man that you are.

This is how 'bad guys' live their life...we don't want someone who lives like this, we just want someone who has this attitude in bed. Like he is our crackhead, and we are his drug. Nice guys are totally capable of doing this, just give in to your animal lust!

[jdean208]

There is nothing wrong with the "be a bad boy in bed" attitude, as far as it goes. It seems to work best with some of my favorite people, providers.

As a philosophy on which to build your relationship life, however, the addage "treat a lady like a prostitute and a prostitute like a lady" has served many successful men over the mellenia. It has risen to the level of a truism.

If you try the bad-boy-in-the-sack methodology on a smart, sophisticated, well educated hottie from a monied background who does not do this for a living, you may end up on the floor.

[pornodave69]

Originally Posted by Carrie Hillcrest

Actually, THIS is why most women don't like self-proclaimed "Nice Guys":

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/ran...niceguys.shtml

Quick version: Be confident. Go for what you want. Don't say you want to be friends when you want a sexual relationship. Stop being a shmuck and then defensively blaming women for not digging you; it's not hot and just makes you look like more of a shmuck.

And if she decides she likes to date creeps ("bad boys") and then complains about it to you when they treat her poorly, tell her she's being a shmuck!

That site is so full of bullshit I don't know where to start. Many nice guys HAD confidence at first. Hell, they made the move to ask the girl out in the first place, right? And then the next girl, and the next, as so on. Getting shot down and rejected before you can even get out your request for a date over and over again eventually wears down that confidence until at some point you just give up.

I had a girl even invite mutual friends to join us on our date because she didn't really want to be alone with me and didn't want anything serious to happen past the date. I overheard a friend on the phone in the bathroom explaining why he was out with us to his girlfriend.

I met friends for drinks after work where I met a coworker of a friend. Ran into her a week or two later. She invites me to her birthday party at the same bar we first met. I go, have a nice time and dance with her a while - she compliments me on my dancing skills. At the end of the night, it's me, her and her friend. I chicken out and leave without asking her out. I hear a good, slow song come on as I leave so I walk back in and ask her to dance. She says "I thought you were leaving?" I told her I couldn't leave without at least asking if I could take her out sometime. She laughs and grabs her friend to join in on the slow dance.

I went out for my birthday and told myself that I would meet a woman, dance with her and get at least one number before leaving. I met a woman, we danced a bunch, some of her friends showed up - she introduced me. Later I saw her sneak out the back door without so much as saying goodbye.

I don't even get the chance to show them I'm a nice guy or get a date and they're out the door. Fuck my life.

[looiecypher]

Actually, THIS is why most women don't like self-proclaimed "Nice Guys":

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/ran...niceguys.shtml

Quick version: Be confident. Go for what you want. Don't say you want to be friends when you want a sexual relationship. Stop being a shmuck and then defensively blaming women for not digging you; it's not hot and just makes you look like more of a shmuck.

And if she decides she likes to date creeps ("bad boys") and then complains about it to you when they treat her poorly, tell her she's being a shmuck!

[looiecypher]

Originally Posted by looiecypher

Actually, THIS is why most women don't like self-proclaimed "Nice Guys":

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/ran...niceguys.shtml

Quick version: Be confident. Go for what you want. Don't say you want to be friends when you want a sexual relationship. Stop being a shmuck and then defensively blaming women for not digging you; it's not hot and just makes you look like more of a shmuck.

And if she decides she likes to date creeps ("bad boys") and then complains about it to you when they treat her poorly, tell her she's being a shmuck!

I have to say the person who wrote this supposedly insight into "Nice Guys" does sound like a total bitch.
I have zero problems with confidence .I am communicative,and from most accounts a good looking guy.
I certainly don't go buying gifts for someone and or bring roses to 1st dates etc.
For the author to post the article as she did shows a total lack of understanding of men and their feelings.She shows herself to be one of the worst type of women.
I was brought up to respect women ,to treat them as equals and to be courteous ,etc.
By the authors standards that makes me weak and unattractive.So ,in her opinion I should treat women as lesser human beings,give no respect and ignore their needs.
Some people are not built that way.
Although I am a "Nice Guy" I also will not be treated as a door mat and for those who think my compassion is a weakness ,be warned you will be sadly mistaken.
By quoting this text Carrie it makes you appear to be of the same mind as the author.She seems very crass and just a really horrible person.
From what I have heard of you Carrie,it sounds to be the opposite of what you are.

[RickO'shayRabbitt]

I think this is bullshit, at least for women close to my age. Women want intimacy and trust out of the bedroom. Those characteristics are highly beneficial to having fun in the sack. Healthy women want guys who are fun in bed, and everybody's definition might not be the same. I do not believe women want to be taken forcefully every single time. That's just as boring as being made love to gently every time, IMO.

Now, when I was younger, what helped in attracting women to me was different that what I would suspect it to be now. I wasn't bad, but I was mischievious.

[Chevalier]

Originally Posted by looiecypher

I was brought up to respect women ,to treat them as equals and to be courteous ,etc.
By the authors standards that makes me weak and unattractive.So ,in her opinion I should treat women as lesser human beings,give no respect and ignore their needs.
Some people are not built that way.
Although I am a "Nice Guy" I also will not be treated as a door mat.

I think you're mis-reading that site. You are defining "Nice Guy" in a way very different from how the author of that site defines "Nice Guy." It's volunteering to be a door mat, i.e. not being assertive, that she defines as "Nice Guy," not extending courtesy and respect.

If we had a term other than "Nice Guy" for these kinds of people, it wouldn't be as confusing. I suspect she uses it because many of the unassertive, hyper-insecure guys describe themselves as "Nice Guys" when they talk about the problem. But, again, it isn't courtesy and respect that makes someone a "Nice Guy" in the way she means.

[jfred]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

...You don't like NICE guys or BAD guys. You just plain don't like guys.

Dude, stop being a shmuck and then defensively blaming women for not digging you. Oh wait, someone else already said that.

Alright, I had to say something like that to keep up my bad boy rep but let me try to add something constructive as well. I'll tell it in the first person, but it could apply to a lot of guys.

I learned back in middle school that the girls-who-like-bad-boys are going to be my friends (if they are bad and smart), not my lovers. Since I'm now several years past puberty, let me make a couple observations.

(1) I'll never fit that mold. Momma just raised me too damn well. It's off the table.

(2) From a mature perspective I'm very thankful I don't fit that mold. Those guys have some significant developmental challenges and personality traits that cause them trouble in many aspects of life (save bedding the bad girls ) that I enjoy having success in. Thanks, Mom.

(3) From a mature perspective I'm very thankful I don't fit that mold. In a young man's eyes those gals are very attractive, socially and sometimes physically. But how do YOU spell headaches? Those girls face challenges in life, too, and do not complement my lifestyle (which is, briefly, "Leisure with Dignity").

(4) Early romantic experiences are influential but not defining. Had I stopped in junior-high I would have reason to consider my self sexually unattractive and, as Summer follows Spring (let it be soon!) I might resent women, considering their behavior the actual cause of my unhappy situation.

I'm gonna let ya in on a secret here, fellas. It doesn't require a genuine bad girl to engage in bad boy sex. Miss Cums's earlier post is right on target: ...we don't want someone who lives like this, we just want someone who has this attitude in bed. ...Nice guys are totally capable of doing this, just give in to your animal lust!

I never have an extended sexual relationship (P4P or civilian) in which my partner does not, at some time, say something to the effect of, "Oh god yes, baby, just TAKE me!" Much of the female population (enough so that you can safely forget the rest...unless of course you're married to one of the rest) responds well to that.

I'm well aware that not all men are equally adept at Women. For instance, to make "giving in to one's animal lusts" pleasant for all parties requires that a gent have not only some familiarity with his own animal nature and how to express it sexually, but also an inner assurance (remember, if you start askin' permission or a lot of procedural questions you ain't a bad boy yet)... an inner assurance that your partner is gonna like this a lot and (particularly important for the less assured) is not going to reject you.**

Here's the beauty part: Most men can handle this if they have an interest in doing so and the opportunity to practice and develop. I trust you see where I'm going with this -- all the tools you need are available to you.

I'm wordy these days and this is already too long, so I'm not going to tell my story here or try to detail how a guy might go about strategically and purposefully developing this quality with the assistance of this community, but it can be done.

You don't have to be a bad guy to beat them at their game.



** Just a note while I'm feeling loquacious: While a regular lover will know your ways, it's not a bad idea to mention to a first-time partner something along the lines of, "Baby, I'd never hurt you but I'm feeling a lot of pent-up energy (tension, power, whatever) today. I hope I'm not too rough on you." Say it with a smile and a hint of promise and not only will there be less chance that you'll frighten her when you start to growl, but you'll also give her something to anticipate. If she expresses concern promise that you'll start slow.

[Katy Alexander]

I do not think that this is a nice guy versus stupid woman thing, because believe me the same thing can be said about the way some men react to women.I think that this has more to do with maturity,and how secure you feel with yoursef.An insecure man , or woman will always go for the person who is emotionally unavailable to them,because as the old saying goes. No one wants to join a club who would have them as a member.

That is why I really dislike all of these books that encourage men, and women to play games in order to attract the oppisite sex.All you really can do is let the people that you do like know it, and if they can not handle it, or are just not interested you walk away.My boyfriend knew that he was not going to live a long life , so I learned a lot from him on how to treat others, and how life is just too short to waste on those who just do not care.

[Guest112113-3]

I could put a few sentences here to discuss what many have already mentioned, but one word comes to mind.



"TRUST"

[jfred]

Originally Posted by Woody of TX

I could put a few sentences here to discuss what many have already mentioned, but one word comes to mind...

Trust me, Woody, a few more sentences might be of benefit. Your point is not blazingly obvious.

Not that that distinguishes your cryptic remark from much of what's been said here.

[DreamWeaver69]

As I read through the initial post and the web site, I found myself relating to several of the points made. Not sure how prevalent it is among men, but it sure makes a lot of sense to me. Perhaps it has some bearing on how/why my relationship with my SO has turned out like it has—sexless and loveless—because of that, I have, as so many others have, turned to hobbying as an outlet. Heck, I’ve only been hobbying for a little over year and I’ve seen one lady multiple times, and if she read this, she would probably agree…I have a difficult time even venturing outside the norm. I thoroughly enjoy our dates but I always fantasize about experiencing other things with her, but always fail to act on those fantasies for a couple of reasons…out of fear of unintentionally physically hurting her (although the odds of that are minimal) and out of the fear of offending her. I will say that none of my fantasies are what would be considered extreme in any manner, so quite honestly, I can’t say why I find it so difficult to be that bad boy in the bedroom other than I’m either a smuck, chump, or a nice guy. Perhaps I could benefit from some coaching Maybe just need to act on those fantasies with my favorite lady and do as jfred says, pre-warn her. Just my thoughts…..

[Guest112113-3]

Originally Posted by jfred

Trust me, Woody, a few more sentences might be of benefit. Your point is not blazingly obvious.

Try thinking outside the box.... if you're not aware what I am referencing now.. you will eventually, well maybe...

[Guest012211-3]

Wow, that's a great link! I get it and NO it wasn't hostile just honest. No one wants an insecure partner in the bedroom or in Life.