why are we here?

[CJ7]

getting here was tough, 8 years of incompetent, economy crippling, inept legislation. based on holding taxpayers responsible for footing the bill for special interest groups and their agenda took its toll ... but we made it through the republican process.

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by essence

Who exactly were those great scientists who ran the Manhattan project, built the bomb, built rockets, got the men on the moon?

Contra popular wisdom, the large majority of those scientists and engineers were Americans:

http://www.mphpa.org/classic/HICC/HICC_HF3.htm

That's not to downplay the contributions of immigrants, but don't overplay it either.

More importantly, can you tell us why the contributions of Nobel Prize winning European immigrants - who were already established intellects BEFORE they immigrated here - helps to make the case for letting in vast numbers of barely literate, low-skilled laborers.

America may thrive better because of immigrants, but I don't think it survives because of them.

[nwarounder]

How we got here is easily explained by simple human emotions. As humans, we are compelled to help the suffering and dying and until that changes all forms of government will eventually turn to some form of socialism. That's why we are not different anymore. We may be more evolved as a species, but the gov is basically the same.

Kudos to our founding fathers, they did the best job of any (except some fanatical religions, if you count that as a form of gov) to prevent this and take the emotion out of government, but they too are proof emotions override logic everytime.

[IIFFOFRDB]

Originally Posted by nwarounder

How we got here is easily explained by simple human emotions. As humans, we are compelled to help the suffering and dying and until that changes all forms of government will eventually turn to some form of socialism. That's why we are not different anymore. We may be more evolved as a species, but the gov is basically the same.

Kudos to our founding fathers, they did the best job of any (except some fanatical religions, if you count that as a form of gov) to prevent this and take the emotion out of government, but they too are proof emotions override logic everytime.

I had to read that 3 times but it makes sense.

[CuteOldGuy]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

How we got here................a long list....but at the top are my considerations:

- A spoiled baby boomer generation of consumers who want it all and don't believe in denying themselves anything. We became way overconfident and arrogant after WWII.

- Massive legal and illegal immigration that diluted our culture, our conformity, or unity. It has overwhelmed our fundamental institutions...we are no longer capable of becoming a melting pot. Instead of bringing us together, our differences are being used by government and big business to segment us, and stereotype us. This way they can appeal to differing segments of society for profit and votes.

- A broken education system that teaches to the lowest common denominators, ignores the great contributions of our Western civilization heritage, and is controlled top to bottom by Progressives. Education no longer "educates". They train workers. That was the plan during the Industrial Revolution; educate people to work in the factories. Don't teach critical thinking. This started, of course, when government began taking over education.

-A never ending federal grab of power that dilutes individual and state's rights. Case in point, the 16th, and 17th Amendments; the Federal Reserve; etc.

- The explosion of "victimhood" in America.

I think Whirly nailed it. I'm not correcting him, I'm supplementing his statements. Excellent post.

[i'va biggen]

Read it again iffy you will flip flop on it LOL..

[essence]

Originally Posted by ExNYer

America may thrive better because of immigrants, but I don't think it survives because of them.

You don't get it.

Very, very, few Americans are not immigrants, first generation, second generation, third generation whatever.

That is so obvious but unfortunately seems to be sometimes forgotten.

It is well known that second generation immigrants look down on first generation, and so it goes on.

So we have to get over the 'immigrant' thing, and dig a little deeper.

True, many of the immigrants who contributed were educated abroad.

I am a firm believer in the need for education to stretch to the limit the person's ability, at whatever age.

Read my link to von Neumann, What made that culture put so much emphasis on intellect and the arts?

When my kids say 'my maths homework is hard' I say 'it's meant to be hard, it would be no use if it was easy'.

If I wanted to immigrate, I would need to pass some quite rigorous tests - am I a world leader in my field, do I have a million bucks to open a business and employ US staff, etc etc. Answers to which are a resounding NO.

I am all in favour of a controlled and balanced policy on immigration.

But to start saying 'we Americans' v. 'you immigrants' is laughable. It's as if you think there is some holy flame of American-ness, which only third generation or earlier immigrants are worthy of upholding.

Pure snobbery.

[CuteOldGuy]

Originally Posted by essence

Pure snobbery.

Am I the only one to notice the irony?

[JD Barleycorn]

Essence, do you understand what an immigrant is? You say that "very few" Americans are not immigrants. I could remind you that even the American Indians came here from somewhere else if you go back far enough. So where do you draw the line? Apparently you draw the line based on race or go back 200 years. Surprise, I can trace my family tree on both sides to 1775 starting at the colonies of Virginia and North Carolina. I call myself a native born American. So that is that.

Yes, it was immigrants (some by force) who HELPED with Manhattan Project, the Space Program, and the Apollo Program. I say helped because the will behind each project was American will, the people who did the work were Americans, and the men who went to the moon, dropped the bomb, and rode the rockets were all Americans. No Brits!

As for the comment about post World War II and over confidence...you have to remember that we were IT! Europe was broken both fiscally and industrially. Anything that the world needed probably came from the US, if you wanted quality and had the choice. Our mistake was thinking it would go on forever. We should have seen the rise in the 70s of Japan, Germany, and the rest of the world. That was our mistake.