Women Going Back Into Abusive Relationships?

[EZ.]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

"Codependency" is not recognized as a legitimate psychiatric diagnosis. It was considered for inclusing in the DSM-III but that effort was unsuccessful. No efforts were made to put it into the DSM-IV or the DSM-V. It is a "pop psych" term that doesn't seem to have any organic basis. It is arguably a healthy trait that is observed in normal families to varying degrees, but when it become too dominant, or is applied on non-family situations can lead to seemingly counter productive outcomes. In other words, it's more just a pattern of bad choices, but not an explanation for those choices. I had a case where I had to take about three depositions on that subject. (A diagnosis of so-call "codependency was actually a side show to the more significant part of the case, but I spent dozens of hours talking with multiple experts on this issues and studying the controversy in the field about the issue, etc.)

I wonder if attachment theory might provide a better template for analyzing the initial question. There has been some recent research that shows that there is a biological basis for the differences in attachment styles defined in the psychological literature. I don't think that an immature attachment style alone would cause this sort of continuous self-destructive behavior, but it might explain some aspect of it.

I looked some of this up, and found this link to have some basic, practical answers to the question.

http://www.crisisconnectioninc.org/d...men_return.htm

They basically can be summed up as lack of a support network outside of the abusive relationship. That is, at least in my mind, a failure of government institutions to provide that sort of temporary support structure. But, that's no surprise.

I'm going to have to read up on attachment theory. I've not been exposed to this. I did take some psychology courses but they obviously predate this. I also appreciate the link giving it a different perspective. Why are men abusive to begin with?

The shelter that I was involved with was not supported by government. I don't see this is a role of government.

[EZ.]

Originally Posted by MsTaylorLong

This is a heavy topic. Although I'm not exactly sure why women seek out and continue to go back to abusive relationships. I will say :

Reason 1: Role models- As a little girl your father is suppose to be the first man you ever love , you grow up to be attracted to men like him. That being said ..if a girls daddy beat her ass silly just to end with "Im doing this because I love you" (I've heard plenty of stories like this) she might subconsciously fall in love with her abuser when she's an adult as well.

Reason 2 : on a much lighter scale!!
The way we are raised teaches us to be attracted to assholes.
In grade school when a boy was mean to you and pulled your hair or shot rubber bands at you across the room..that meant he liked you.

Just my thoughts

My mother died when I was young. I only had a brother and all of my cousins were male ...large family and a lot of testosterone.

I have two daughters and never raised a hand to either.

Growing up, it was totally unacceptable to hit women. Rarely did women ever hit men unless it was a slap (I have been the recipient of a few of those for crossing boundaries). Today, it isn't uncommon for women to actually attack a man.

Curious. Do you like to have your hair pulled?

[TexTushHog]

EZ, we could have an entire section, nevermind a thread, devoted to the proper role of government. I believe that there just isn't enough money available via private charity to even begin to adequately fund the social safety net of a modern western democracy. Plus, with private charities, you have problems with WHO gets served by the existing inadequate resources such that the services that exist may be distributed inequitably, and by what I view as the wrong factors, among those most in need. They is the very short version of why I point the finger at government.

[EZ.]

TTH, the government would turn a temporary support system into a lifetime entitlement. We don't need a section or a thread. The role of government is spelled out by the Constitution. You are right, the government doesn't do anything well.

[Guest072720]

Originally Posted by EZ.

My mother died when I was young. I only had a brother and all of my cousins were male ...large family and a lot of testosterone.

I have two daughters and never raised a hand to either.

Growing up, it was totally unacceptable to hit women. Rarely did women ever hit men unless it was a slap (I have been the recipient of a few of those for crossing boundaries). Today, it isn't uncommon for women to actually attack a man.

Curious. Do you like to have your hair pulled?

Well, you're a better man than most. *kisses*

And about the hair pulling HELL NO. My momma had me racially confused putting my hair in tight ass corn rolls!! When that shit got pulled it HURT. Lol

[EZ.]

Originally Posted by MsTaylorLong

Well, you're a better man than most. *kisses*

And about the hair pulling HELL NO. My momma had me racially confused putting my hair in tight ass corn rolls!! When that shit got pulled it HURT. Lol

Not that spousal abuse didn't exist, when I was growing up, I think it was far less common.

One of these girls that we were talking about has been away from the guy for about a year. She doesn't have kids and recently went back to the guy that put her in the hospital.

Maybe they should add these people as a separate area to the sex offender websites.

[EZ.]

Originally Posted by MsTaylorLong

Well, you're a better man than most. *kisses*

And about the hair pulling HELL NO. My momma had me racially confused putting my hair in tight ass corn rolls!! When that shit got pulled it HURT. Lol

Not that spousal abuse didn't exist, when I was growing up, I think it was far less common.

One of these girls that we were talking about has been away from the guy for about a year. She doesn't have kids and recently went back to the guy that put her in the hospital.

Maybe they should add these people as a separate area to the sex offender websites.

[Guest072720]

Originally Posted by EZ.

Not that spousal abuse didn't exist, when I was growing up, I think it was far less common.

One of these girls that we were talking about has been away from the guy for about a year. She doesn't have kids and recently went back to the guy that put her in the hospital.

Maybe they should add these people as a separate area to the sex offender websites.

Hmm,

I disagree , as sad as it is to see a girl in that situation. If see goes back to the abuser there is some level of consent.
Where as, sexual abuse there is none.

I do see your point but about 80% of the population would be a registered abuser. Women included.

[EZ.]

Originally Posted by MsTaylorLong

Hmm,

I disagree , as sad as it is to see a girl in that situation. If see goes back to the abuser there is some level of consent.
Where as, sexual abuse there is none.

I do see your point but about 80% of the population would be a registered abuser. Women included.

That girl going back was 100% consensual.

"80% of the population would be a registered abuser" That is a sad testimonial.

I wasn't comparing sexual offenders with physical abusers. It might serve as a warning to other women and serve as a deterrent for the men.

[Chung Tran]

Originally Posted by thathottnurse

I am more concerned with why people abuse in the first place. What makes someone else think that beating someone into submission is an acceptable form of communication this day in age. Why would someone need control over another grown adult?

Asking why they go back is a valid question but I wanna know why he beats her at all.

beyond the scope of the thread, but I've always wondered why Countries invade others, and imprison its inhabitants.. I think history shows it usually backfires.. it did not in America, but we had an atypical invasion, if you will.. worked out that way, in a marginal sense of the definition.. I'm talking more like Iraq invading Kuwait, Syria invading Lebanon, North Korea/Vietnam invading its southern half..... or Germany during WW2...

abuse is usually not physical.. beating someone is usually one of the last steps in a chain of abuse... you notice how certain people.. CEO's, Prison Guards, Army Commanders, swear a lot? to abuse/control their underlings... name-calling on the school playground... means of subjugation.. the perpetrators often lack self-esteem and confidence, and seek to impose that on their subjects..

[EZ.]

Originally Posted by Chung Tran

beyond the scope of the thread, but I've always wondered why Countries invade others, and imprison its inhabitants.. I think history shows it usually backfires.. it did not in America, but we had an atypical invasion, if you will.. worked out that way, in a marginal sense of the definition.. I'm talking more like Iraq invading Kuwait, Syria invading Lebanon, North Korea/Vietnam invading its southern half..... or Germany during WW2...

abuse is usually not physical.. beating someone is usually one of the last steps in a chain of abuse... you notice how certain people.. CEO's, Prison Guards, Army Commanders, swear a lot? to abuse/control their underlings... name-calling on the school playground... means of subjugation.. the perpetrators often lack self-esteem and confidence, and seek to impose that on their subjects..

George Patton cursed like a sailor. Do you think that he had self-esteem issues? I knew Robert Howard. His language was pretty rough and he was the most decorated soldier in American history. He was also one of the kindest men I have known. He spent his time, after he retired, working with disabled vets in San Antonio.

[Chung Tran]

Originally Posted by EZ.

George Patton cursed like a sailor. Do you think that he had self-esteem issues?

no, but I had segued into Schoolyard Bullies, suggesting that they had self-esteem issues.. I said Commanders and CEO's swear to keep underlings controlled and subjugated..

[EZ.]

Originally Posted by Chung Tran

no, but I had segued into Schoolyard Bullies, suggesting that they had self-esteem issues.. I said Commanders and CEO's swear to keep underlings controlled and subjugated..

I was in the military and then the rest of my career in a male dominated industry. I guess that is all I have ever known.

[woodyboyd]

Originally Posted by EZ.

I was having a few beers with an old ASPD friend (Ragin Cajun) the other night and started talking about a little stripper that we both know. About a year ago, her boyfriend put her in the hospital. We're talking about broken bones. He told me that she had recently moved back in with him.

That was a long time ago and hadn't thought about it in years. One of the women had her face mutilated with a carpet knife. I have seen some some bad things but this was horrific. Seeing her and because of her reaction to me being there, I never returned.

Back and forth, we kept bringing up women, that we knew, that had gone back into abusive, violent, situations or left one for another. I have never understood this.

EZ, first off you are a good person and empathetic to these women who have been injured.

However, you are making an assumption that isn't always correct, that the injured woman is having the same type of pain you would have. A broken bone hurts right? But are you sure?

There is something called allodynia, pain from non-painful stimuli. My autistic son had it. His feet could be covered in fire ant bites, and he wouldn't wince, but he would scream bloody murder when his hair was combed. Classically, you can see allodynia when someone with a migraine has to be kept in a dark room because light hurts their eyes. Point is pain can be an individual experience more often than we think.

And if people were so resistant to pain, then why would anyone do S&M? For some, pain is pleasure or at least a need.

The woman who set up the first woman's shelter was Erin Pizzey. She had what today would be a radical notion that women were just as violent towards others as men are.

Here is what she wrote about why one woman wouldn't leave her abusive man:
Moira is a wanderer, and in between bouts with Mike she, like so many others, stays in various homeless family hostels or refuges. She then gets allotted a flat in a New Town, a grant to furnish it, installs her kids in school, and orders from her mail order catalogues. She is such a good hustler that before long she has £3000 to £4000 worth of goods delivered from masses of different catalogues. Then, when it's all in, she sells off the lot to neighbours and second-hand shops, and flits with the kids back to Mike, if she feels like it, or to yet another homeless family unit. When she was with us she became the life and soul of the Refuge, and all the staff loved her. But she liked to taunt Mike over the phone. She would ask him to come over and see the kids, but when he arrived she would be out, taking the kids with her.

On one occasion, when she had made yet another such arrangement which left him raging on our doorstep, I asked him why he did not just forget her. I warned him that they both had a 'till-death-us-do-part' relationship, and it looked to me highly likely that one of his onslaughts would eventually finish her off. Then the kids would go into care and he would go to jail. Although he agreed, it was hopeless talking to him. He just kept repeating that he loved her and wanted her back. 'How can you say you love someone when you torture her?' I asked. 'In the hospital after the last baby, you screwed her on the balcony and split all her stitches'. 'She wanted it as well,' he said. There was no getting through to him. Moira eventually came back and found him there, and I saw the confusion on the children's faces as they struggled to understand the violent and perverted world of their parents. Now Mike was crying and promising to take them home. This was the same Mike who went berserk and smashed their toys and beat their mother to a pulp.

'Why do you do it, Moira?' I perservered in exasperation. 'Why do you need to get killed?' If I've asked a woman that question once, I've asked a thousand times, and each time the answer is roughly the same. In this case Moira thought for a few moments, then said 'It's the moment just before he hits me'.

It is hard to explain this need to people from non-violent backgrounds. The best way to explain it probably is to ask you to imagine a moment in your life when you are in mortal danger. Suddenly you find you are super-human. You deal with the situation perfectly. Maybe you rescue a child from in front of a car. Maybe you pull someone out of a burning house. Then after the event your knees collapse, you are shaking, and you go into a state of shock. What happened to you is that you put yourself on red alert. You perceived danger, and the message flashed from your brain to all the nerve centres of the body. Chemicals in the body alerted the system to a state of high arousal. You rose to the occasion. You were literally high on your own body chemicals. When the danger had passed, your chemical levels dropped dramatically, and the body suffered immediate withdrawal symptoms.

Once the danger is over, most people go back to normal, but not the violence-prone personality. This is the child that became addicted to its own body chemicals from babyhood. Probably it will one day be discovered that such children were addicted even before birth, when they were in the womb. Their entire system is constantly awash with the chemical of high arousal, as scarcely a day goes by without a violent family episode. Soon the body becomes so used to this feeling of the chemical rush that unconsciously the child looks for dangerous situations to provide it.

[Willow Breeze]

I have had several friends killed from the guy who abused them. On one of my last friends that was killed, I begged her to come stay with me to get away from him, and her reply was that he always found her so she didn't see the point of leaving him.

I Knew she would end up dead but I couldn't help her cause she wouldn't let me.
I am Still haunted to this day by her death. She told me one day that he killed her animals as a way to control her, and that he would kill anyone that tried to help her.
her self-esteem was so low that she thought she deserved to die. They found them both dead together. she had so much going for her, but that didn't matter.

Some women think that it is normal to be abused so they always want that in a man. have a current friend that just ended a lifetime of abuse. She is still recovering but is doing alot better.