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Diamonds and Tuxedos Glamour, elegance, and sophistication. That's what it's all about here in ECCIE's newest forum which caters to those with expensive tastes, lavish lifestyles, and an appetite for upscale entertainment.

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Old 03-29-2011, 01:38 PM   #16
Bebe Le Strange
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Originally Posted by Rudyard K View Post
Yeah, make things illegal...kind of like we have with drugs. That'll fix it. Everyone will end up in jail.
Well you can't have it one way and then the other. Looks like instead it's better to just let them die I guess..

By the way I was making a point in the legalize drug comment and you are misconstruing, twisting what my points were in this debate by posting one comment.

In the scheme of things it is either "have government / state funded rescue's to save lives, and complain about the cost, or abandon helping people in these situations and just let them die (because they knew the risk).. or try to find a solution, like the extreme I mentioned and make it illegal, or require training, certification and pay fines, or whatever.

In any case something has to be done, but keeping it in perspective these types of dramatic rescues really do not happen as often as the media portrays. So you have to ask yourself how much of this is knee jerking to the media reports..?

My comment about legalizing drugs was facetious and was meant to make a point...
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Old 03-29-2011, 02:15 PM   #17
pjorourke
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Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius View Post
Saving these people is like voting for politicians. You're just encouraging the bastards. Right PJ?
.
Exactly!

http://www.groveatlantic.com/default...n9780802119605
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Old 03-29-2011, 02:22 PM   #18
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Just another example of the nanny State run amuck.

Lets hear it for the Darwin Awards that "commemorate those who assist natural selection by removing themselves from the gene pool... Darwin Awards are given to honor those who do their best to ensure that the next generation is smarter--by one. These heroes sacrifice their very lives to give our children a better future..."
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Old 03-29-2011, 02:27 PM   #19
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Some gene pools need a better filter.
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Old 03-29-2011, 02:53 PM   #20
NinaBrooke
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First of all, government funded rescue should be left to those scenarios for which they were intended: natural disasters (tornadoes, hurricanes, flooding, earthquakes, etc.), fires, explosions, MVAs, and the like.

Devoting these resources to "sports" is wrong. If anyone supports these rescue missions, it should be the sport. Let them fund any rescue attempts.

]
I agree. it should be sports funded and paid for by the people doing that sports. As to jet skis, if they are dangerous to nature, why surf there? YOU know you risk your life? If i do stupid things then i have to at least be responsible. Surfing isn`t necessary. Its a luxury.
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Old 03-29-2011, 03:02 PM   #21
pjorourke
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Some gene pools need a better filter.
This one needs chlorine "shocking"
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Old 03-29-2011, 03:30 PM   #22
charlestudor2005
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This one needs chlorine "shocking"
Dayum, PJ! I thought the only person in your household that knew about chlorine shocking would be your poolboy (or girl, as the case may be). Maybe just your in-house servants.
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Old 03-29-2011, 04:09 PM   #23
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I have shocked my share of pools -- in my distant youth.
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Old 03-29-2011, 04:19 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by pjorourke View Post
I have shocked my share of pools -- in my distant youth.
Translation: PJ liked to skinny dip when he was young.

(You didn't really think he was referring to manual labor, did you?)
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Old 03-29-2011, 06:00 PM   #25
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I wasn't always a rich famous author.
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Old 03-29-2011, 09:05 PM   #26
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Is it society's (i.e. government services) obligation to take care of someone who rides a bike without a helmet and has an accident? Is it society's obligation to take care of someone who uses drugs? Is it society's obligation to take care of those folks who engage in poor health activities? Is it society's obligation to take care of those folks who like to live life on the edge? The list goes on and on.

It always amazes me that the same folks who think it is society's obligation to take care of all these folks...also believe that society should have very little role in regulating their participation in the activity. That just seems counterintuitive to me. Personal responsibility fosters individual freedom...and (it seems to me) vice-versa.
you make a really really good point here. ANd lets not forget the countries where no one can save you . In Austria we have the same issues with skiers going outside marked territory and then getting buried under avalanches. Sometimes the rescuers ( as PJ pointed out) risk their lives as well.

In Austria we have certain standards where society (ah insurance) will pay and when not.
Even if you try to commit suicide and survive they send you the bill (not that i ever tried......:-)......because its against the law to try to commit suicide...(lol)....)
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Old 03-29-2011, 09:34 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Rudyard K View Post

It always amazes me that the same folks who think it is society's obligation to take care of all these folks...also believe that society should have very little role in regulating their participation in the activity. That just seems counterintuitive to me. Personal responsibility fosters individual freedom...and (it seems to me) vice-versa.
I'm a little bit confused with this statement. Take seat belts and motorcycle helmets. It seems to me that those who believe it is society's obligation to take care of folks who get injured because they weren't wearing them are also typically the ones who support the laws that require them.
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Old 03-30-2011, 08:16 AM   #28
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In Austria we have certain standards where society (ah insurance) will pay and when not.
Even if you try to commit suicide and survive they send you the bill (not that i ever tried......:-)......because its against the law to try to commit suicide...(lol)....)
I have a friend whose brother recently died in a sporting accident. His estate got a bill for about 4 grand for the helicopter that came to life-flight him -- even though he was dead when it arrived.

This was out in California -- a state that is broke and has to charge for those services.
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Old 03-30-2011, 08:38 AM   #29
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I have a friend whose brother recently died in a sporting accident. His estate got a bill for about 4 grand for the helicopter that came to life-flight him -- even though he was dead when it arrived.

This was out in California -- a state that is broke and has to charge for those services.
Actually, most "ambulance" services of which I am aware charge the patient. Insurance may cover a portion or all. In the case of an uninsured person, if they are judgment proof, the ambulance company normally writes it off.
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Old 03-30-2011, 10:42 AM   #30
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A little off subject I know, but Falcon Heene’s—the “Balloon Boy”—parents were presented a bill of $36,000 for the full rescue operations costs in 2009.

To my knowledge, the costs for rescue operations are normally charged to the person or persons being rescued (when not a natural disaster). That does not mean those fees are collected, however. In the situation that Mazo is presenting, the choice is not “yes” and “no.” It’s “sometimes yes” and “sometimes no.” The government provides rescuers part of the time, so the surfers need to get on board (no pun intended) and accept what the government is offering; otherwise, the risk is entirely their own.

I read this yesterday and thought about this thread. The decision of many local governments was to ban this extreme sport.

The Early, Deadly Days of Motorcycle Racing

It was in 1911 that a livery worker named Ashley Franklin Van Order moved from Illinois to Southern California so he could ride his motorcycle year-round. Van Order took a job selling Harley-Davidsons and began riding competitively, but his racing career was cut short soon afterward by an accident, followed by an ultimatum. “His wife, Lilly, told him that if he ever rode again, she was out of there,” says Van Order’s grandson . . .

The races must have been spectacular for people who were accustomed to thinking of horsepower in terms of actual horses. The bikes were designed to run fast, and that was about it: they had to be towed behind other motorcycles to get them started, and they had no brakes. The tracks, called motordromes, came in various sizes—a circuit of a mile and a quarter occupied the current site of the Beverly Wilshire Hotel in Beverly Hills—and were made of lengths of 2-by-2 and 2-by-4 lumber with rough-cut surfaces. The turns were severely banked, allowing riders to reach speeds of more than 100 miles an hour. Crashes were frequent and horrific—riders who went down faced being impaled by splinters—and often fatal. Spectators shared in the risk: at many motordromes, they peered down from the lip of the track, in harm’s way. On one particularly lethal day in 1912, several observers—from four to six, accounts vary—were killed along with Eddie Hasha and another rider at a motordrome in Newark, New Jersey, when Hasha lost control of his bike and slammed into the crowd.

. . . . By the mid-‘20s, the sport began to lose its appeal. Perhaps the novelty wore off; certainly the carnage was appalling. Newspapers began referring to motordromes as “murderdromes,” and local governments closed some tracks. . . .

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-c...le-Racing.html
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