Welfare at its finest

[Trey]

Originally Posted by Don T. Lukbak

Is there a rational basis for this outburst or is it merely a manifestation of Syndrome Gilles de la Tourette?

(The only sleazy modern day Mormon I know of is Harry Reid. There may be a handful of others, but I know not who they might be.)

The ones that live in the commune have a shit load of kids they can't support. Lots of them are on section 8, get food stamps, and TANF and whatever else they can get. They work together to get all they can then give it to the church. While it is a problem it's probably not the worst, but still it's a problem.

Lived up there for a bit. They are some of the nicest crazy people you'll ever meet.

[Out_of_Bounds]

I'm just glad I live in a state like Texas where if I want to buy a gun and give it to someone else, or sell it I'm not going to face criminal charges. It's my shit I do with it what I want.

[jbravo_123]

Originally Posted by GlobeSpotter

That would not surprise me.

Why would a "for profit" company overpay employees?

Pay should be market driven and clearly the employees will work for less than they need when they are subsidized by the government.

So pull the plug on the handout, and everyone of those fucks will go in and demand a raise or quit to a better paying job.

After a mass exodus, pay would be increased to be in better alignment with the work performed.

The problem is that historically, allowing the market to try and determine employee pay doesn't work.

Look at the meat industry of the early 1900's. Large companies controlled large aspects of employee's lives, from paying them in special corporate currency that could only be spent at the corporate stores (of course, for lower quality goods at a high price).

While you can argue that employees could quit and work elsewhere, the companies all were in collusion and would blacklist anyone who stepped out of line and would work together and set prices, pay, etc.

Fundamentally, in a completely free market, it is not effective for the companies at the top of the food chain to compete, rather it is more cost efficient for them to work together (ie, a monopoly).

This is why government controls on corporations are necessary in order to protect the ordinary citizen from things corporations would naturally do in an unregulated market.

============================== =====================

Regarding Wal-Mart: It's generally known that many of its employees are on some sort of public assistance due to Wal-Mart's practice of simply not paying its employees well.

http://www.pbs.org/itvs/storewars/stores3.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoco...ic-assistance/

I've also heard that Wal-Mart has some employees on staff specifically to assist their other employees in navigating the public assistance programs, but I'm too lazy to look for articles on that right now.

[Out_of_Bounds]

Yeah government needs to control corporations, to a point. But then again with a corporate tax rate of 39% it's no wonder companies are moving over seas and the only good jobs are to be had at Wal-Mart.

[Don T. Lukbak]

Originally Posted by Trey

The ones that live in the commune have a shit load of kids they can't support. Lots of them are on section 8, get food stamps, and TANF and whatever else they can get. They work together to get all they can then give it to the church. While it is a problem it's probably not the worst, but still it's a problem.

Any human society that requires subsidization is a problem, but I had no idea Mormons were any more susceptible to utopian societies in America than your average schmuck. Are they really? I do believe there may still be Mormon communes in Mexico. From Plymouth Colony - until Bradford privatized the endeavor-through Fruitland and Jim Jones the history of Utopias has always been a history of failure. I agree it makes no sense to give handouts to delusional commune dwellers...but I suspect that piece of the parasite is closer to .001% of the drain than to 2% of it.

If you have any evidence the burden of Mormon communes on the fisc is significant, I'd like to see it. Infuriating, but trivial, is what I suspect.

Originally Posted by Trey

Lived up there for a bit. They are some of the nicest crazy people you'll ever meet.

I served with some in the military and worked with others as well as fucked a trail of Mormon chicks throughout Happy Valley; the men thought I was nuts and the women were real hot! Nasty too. In a good way. I wonder how many Mormon dudes are on the Ick.

[jbravo_123]

Originally Posted by Out_of_Bounds

Yeah government needs to control corporations, to a point. But then again with a corporate tax rate of 39% it's no wonder companies are moving over seas and the only good jobs are to be had at Wal-Mart.

In the US, I believe we need to stop focusing on low skill labor jobs and focus on trying to improve the overall education and skill level of our citizens to get higher quality jobs.

As technology improves and other countries around the world simply have more poor cheap manual labor, we need to move away from trying to make more of those types of jobs here.

No large corporation actually pays the full tax rate with all the exploits available in the current system, much less all the subsidies many industries get from the government.

[GlobeSpotter]

Originally Posted by Don T. Lukbak

.....
I wonder how many Mormon dudes are on the Ick.

Just count the bicycles

[spear88]

If government controls and government welfare work better than free markets then why are places like Greece, Spain, Italy, Detroit, and California all bankrupt with crashed economies ?

[Don T. Lukbak]

Originally Posted by spear88

If government controls and government welfare work better than free markets then why are places like Greece, Spain, Italy, Detroit, and California all bankrupt with crashed economies ?

Same reason USSR went out of business...Stalin and Coleman Young just weren't holding their mouths right. Socialism and heavy government regulation of every aspect of human endeavor will always be better than property rights and personal responsibility...just as soon as a perfect leader emerges. But, for now, you're just going to have to accept the risk of losing your life if you peddle loosie cigarettes in de Blasio's town. Gotta collect that tobacco tax, doncha know...for the children!

[Wakeup]

Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Australia, Canada...

[GlobeSpotter]

Originally Posted by Wakeup

Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Australia, Canada...

(You understood) Delivering your message in a complete sentence....would help.

[Stromprophet]

Originally Posted by Out_of_Bounds

Yeah government needs to control corporations, to a point. But then again with a corporate tax rate of 39% it's no wonder companies are moving over seas and the only good jobs are to be had at Wal-Mart.

35%. And the "effective" rate is much much lower because of all the loopholes and deductions. In developed counties US corps pay very low because unlike every other developed country they don't pay much for social. I.e. In Europe the corps are paying healthcare, education, pension, etc, etc much higher than US.

Is there any reason the US should be competing with the tax policy of undeveloped countries?

[Stromprophet]

Originally Posted by jbravo_123

In the US, I believe we need to stop focusing on low skill labor jobs and focus on trying to improve the overall education and skill level of our citizens to get higher quality jobs.

As technology improves and other countries around the world simply have more poor cheap manual labor, we need to move away from trying to make more of those types of jobs here.

No large corporation actually pays the full tax rate with all the exploits available in the current system, much less all the subsidies many industries get from the government.

Education alone won't fix it. Global Corporate Philosophy today is to simply pay labor less regardless of anything. Experience, education, skill simply means your *less underpaid* than otherwise. Still underpaid.

See Steve Jobs collusion with all the big tech companies preventing highly skilled employees from free market competition for wages.

I think you are wrong on lower wages jobs. What happens when one machine can produce everything? (Just to extreme example). Rather the society has to understand and support paying everyone better rather than classify people as not worthy of wages. That's a tactic to make workers blame each other. Rather than understanding nearly everyone is being underpaid.

[Stromprophet]

Originally Posted by spear88

If government controls and government welfare work better than free markets then why are places like Greece, Spain, Italy, Detroit, and California all bankrupt with crashed economies ?

Kansas budget is imploding employing the opposite. No welfare, slashing education to the bone, no workers protections, no regulations, no taxes.

There's a balance to be struck.

The Median Spaniard or Italian has more wealth than the Median American. US is 27th in Median Wealth.

Truly the best countries are those who employ free markets with regulations that are enforced and effective. Additionally the countries employ 3 major protections to the citizens. Some form of national healthcare, workers rights regulations that work, and a more progressive tax policy.

Germany, various Baltic States, Netherlands, Australia, Canada.

[Stromprophet]

Originally Posted by Don T. Lukbak

Same reason USSR went out of business...Stalin and Coleman Young just weren't holding their mouths right. Socialism and heavy government regulation of every aspect of human endeavor will always be better than property rights and personal responsibility...just as soon as a perfect leader emerges. But, for now, you're just going to have to accept the risk of losing your life if you peddle loosie cigarettes in de Blasio's town. Gotta collect that tobacco tax, doncha know...for the children!

Depends. China makes its heavy hand work. USSR allowed itself to become too dependent on high oil prices and military spending to boost the economy.

Yeah, it wouldn't have anything to do with the cop who actually choked him to death. It was the taxes. Too many cops are just not intelligent, no skill, not paid much, and they are completely insulated from consequences of violating citizen rights. So what else would happen.