voter id laws - pros vs. cons

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by Juan Pablo de Marco

The Myth of Voter Fraud

your link by daily kos is a myth in denial.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by Juan Pablo de Marco

The Myth of Voter Fraud

Hopefully your blindness is not permanent. Prayers.

http://eccie.net/showpost.php?p=2051835&postcount=27

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Hopefully your blindness is not permanent. Prayers.

http://eccie.net/showpost.php?p=2051835&postcount=27

I think his blindness is permanent.

[JD Barleycorn]

Where voter fraud changed history; 1876-Rutherford Hayes vs Samuel Tilden, Louisiana turned in two slates of electors. One from free elections and the other where a county (Jones County) with 1200 black republicans had only two voters with the Klan overseeing the election. The dems eventually gave up stealing the election but made a deal with Hayes to withdraw US troops from the south abandoning the freedmen to the tender mercies of the Klan.
1960-Kennedy vs Nixon; many historians now agree that Kennedy may have stolen the election with the dead voting in Chicago, Texas, and West Virginia.
Since we don't keep accurate lists of voters it is hard to determine if fraud has actually occurred but sometimes people get arrested. http://www.walb.com/story/16104533/1...or-voter-fraud http://dailycaller.com/2010/06/10/ac...new-documents/ http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/04/28/...fraud-in-ohio/ and more people vote than are registered http://www.examiner.com/elections-20...souri-counties http://www.ejfi.org/Voting/Voting-80.htm


It comes down to this, if we don't check IDs then we will never really know about fraud. This is the real logic behind the reticence of the left. They don't want the investigation even if it could prove them right (which it won't).

[Cpalmson]

If a 21 year old has to show an ID to buy beer or an 18 year old has to show ID to buy tobacco products, then a REGISTERED voter should have to produce some form of ID in order to vote.

There is a fucking double standard when it comes to this issue. Voters identifying themselves as GOP or leaning GOP or conservative play by the voting rules for the most part. They register properly. They campaign properly. You don't see candidates or GOP-leaning clergy using the power of the pulpit to sway those with weak minds on who to vote for. You don't see them blatantly try to use the provisional ballot process to get some homeless man to cast a vote after being bribed with a pack of cigarettes. No, for the most part, the GOP/conservative voters play by the rules.

On the other hand, liberal or democratic leaning voters/operatives are loose and fancy with the rules. To them, there is no need to register to vote. Just go vote. If they won't let you voter, raise a stink and force them to give you a provisional ballot. Liberal/democratic operative use unions an minority churches as recruiting grounds to push their agendas. Unions threaten workers on who to vote for. Minority churches openly support democratic candidates from the pulpit. To make it worse, they bus them to the polls and tell people how to vote. If that happened in a white church, the IRS would be so up their ass it wouldn't be funny. I could go on and on as to how the left manipulates the election process. I'll throw 2 other examples out there. First, these groups find judges to keep polls open past the stated closing time. They will cite bull-shit arguments like voting irregularities or high voter turnout to get a judge to keep the polls open. They do this to "bus" in more of their voters to cast illegal ballots. Second, the mainstream media is bought and paid for by the left. They are only too happy to report news or call races that are in favor of their liberal candidates/friends. Need I remind everyone about the 2000 election? The MSM called Florida for Gore even though polls were still open in the part of Florida that is in the Central Time Zone.

So, yes; I'm all for strict laws that require voter identification. As a matter of fact, I think casting a vote should be a very arduous process. It should not be simple. I say that because I think only serious minded people should be allowed to vote. I don't think Joe Bob should vote because his union boss told him to vote for candidate "Y". I don't the drunk on the corner should have easy access to the polling place because the only reason he's voting is because some operative promised him a bottle of cheap booze.

Here's what the voting process should be like:
1) Everyone wanting to vote needs to register at least 30 days prior to an election.
2) Anyone wanting to case a vote needs to produce a valid government issued picture ID.
3) There should be no early voting. All voting should be conducted on election day. The only exception would be for those who know they will be unable to go to their local polling place on election day. Then they can have an absentee ballot, but there most be an affidavit on file declaring the reason for requesting an absentee ballot.
4) For national elections-- presidential elections, there will be one window for the entire nation from 6am EST until 10pm Alaska/Hawaii time. That way, we can all go to sleep and then wake up the next day for the result.
5) No judge can extend the poll closing time.
6) No results or exit poll data can be disclosed until polls have closed.

[69er]

Originally Posted by KCJoe

Haven't heard proof of any widespread voter fraud taking place. Prove that it is happening, than I might support it. When less than half of eligible voters actually voting, I can't imagine that much fraud taking place, or for that matter, people without some form of id trying to actually trying to vote.

This just means that small amounts of voter fraud, can have a huge impact.

When I lived in California, there were some referendums on the ballot that were very unpopular with the illegal aliens. One local group was advertising what day voter ID cards went out in the mail in which cities. I thought that was pretty blatent.

[TexTushHog]

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by Cpalmson

If a 21 year old has to show an ID to buy beer or an 18 year old has to show ID to buy tobacco products, then a REGISTERED voter should have to produce some form of ID in order to vote.

There is a fucking double standard when it comes to this issue. Voters identifying themselves as GOP or leaning GOP or conservative play by the voting rules for the most part. They register properly. They campaign properly. You don't see candidates or GOP-leaning clergy using the power of the pulpit to sway those with weak minds on who to vote for. You don't see them blatantly try to use the provisional ballot process to get some homeless man to cast a vote after being bribed with a pack of cigarettes. No, for the most part, the GOP/conservative voters play by the rules.

On the other hand, liberal or democratic leaning voters/operatives are loose and fancy with the rules. To them, there is no need to register to vote. Just go vote. If they won't let you voter, raise a stink and force them to give you a provisional ballot. Liberal/democratic operative use unions an minority churches as recruiting grounds to push their agendas. Unions threaten workers on who to vote for. Minority churches openly support democratic candidates from the pulpit. To make it worse, they bus them to the polls and tell people how to vote. If that happened in a white church, the IRS would be so up their ass it wouldn't be funny. I could go on and on as to how the left manipulates the election process. I'll throw 2 other examples out there. First, these groups find judges to keep polls open past the stated closing time. They will cite bull-shit arguments like voting irregularities or high voter turnout to get a judge to keep the polls open. They do this to "bus" in more of their voters to cast illegal ballots. Second, the mainstream media is bought and paid for by the left. They are only too happy to report news or call races that are in favor of their liberal candidates/friends. Need I remind everyone about the 2000 election? The MSM called Florida for Gore even though polls were still open in the part of Florida that is in the Central Time Zone.

So, yes; I'm all for strict laws that require voter identification. As a matter of fact, I think casting a vote should be a very arduous process. It should not be simple. I say that because I think only serious minded people should be allowed to vote. I don't think Joe Bob should vote because his union boss told him to vote for candidate "Y". I don't the drunk on the corner should have easy access to the polling place because the only reason he's voting is because some operative promised him a bottle of cheap booze.

Here's what the voting process should be like:
1) Everyone wanting to vote needs to register at least 30 days prior to an election.
2) Anyone wanting to case a vote needs to produce a valid government issued picture ID.
3) There should be no early voting. All voting should be conducted on election day. The only exception would be for those who know they will be unable to go to their local polling place on election day. Then they can have an absentee ballot, but there most be an affidavit on file declaring the reason for requesting an absentee ballot.
4) For national elections-- presidential elections, there will be one window for the entire nation from 6am EST until 10pm Alaska/Hawaii time. That way, we can all go to sleep and then wake up the next day for the result.
5) No judge can extend the poll closing time.
6) No results or exit poll data can be disclosed until polls have closed.

you left out #7.

7. no tv local or network should call an election before the Secretary of State makes it official.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

You nailed it TTH.

[CuteOldGuy]

What is the source of your graph, TTH, and what were the criteria and data used to create it? Or did you make it up?

[nevergaveitathought]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

What is the source of your graph, TTH, and what were the criteria and data used to create it? Or did you make it up?

the "possible" in number of occurrences is highly questionable and is itself prejudicial. the graph is either meant to be humorously sarcastic for dems to delight in or if meant to be taken seriously, a foolishness. it would strike me that the number of possible occurrences is the number of elections

[Jackie S]

Lyndon Johnson was a legend in Texas for his ability to bring out the "dead" vote.

I doubt Voter Fraud is as big of an issue as we would think. I think what a much bigger threat to the system is voter stupidity, which the Democrats thrive on. If you look back, most of the problems with voting stems from people who traditionally vote Democrat being too stupid to follow the simple directions.

Of course, the Dems love it that way. They are now the Party of "those that vote for a living". Promise their supporters the world before election day,, and hand them a handfull of dirt after, just like they have been doing the African American Community for the past 50 years.

[nevergaveitathought]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

Lyndon Johnson was a legend in Texas for his ability to bring out the "dead" vote.

he wasnt called "landslide lyndon" for nothing

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

Notice the word 'occurences' is misspelled, which immediately makes the chart suspect. Then there is the claim that the number of possible occurrences of voter impersonation ='s 9. Well that 'factoid' is torpedoed by this instance where this person voted for Obama 10 times:

NAACP STATE LEADER SENT TO PRISON FOR VOTER FRAUD

Sowers was convicted of 10 counts of voter fraud and was sentenced to five years for each count. Circuit Court Judge Charles Webster ordered Sowers to serve her terms concurrently with no possibility of parole. She was also ordered to pay restitution and court costs.
The verdict came after the state presented evidence that Sowers committed voter fraud in the weeks leading up to the democratic primary in 2007.
In his opening remarks, prosecutor Bill Gresham said 31 absentee ballots were seized by the Mississippi Bureau of Investigation in 2007 after allegations of misconduct. Those 31 ballots led to 31 counts of voter fraud in the initial indictment against Sowers.

http://www.tunicatimes.com/index.php...paid&Itemid=26

And torpedoed again by this instance where the man and his aid voted for himself 13 times.Daytona Beach commissioner, aide arrested in election-fraud investigation

Derrick Henry and his campaign manager were arrested this morning.
October 27, 2010|By Ludmilla Lelis and Gary Taylor, Orlando Sentinel

Daytona Beach City Commissioner Derrick Henry and his campaign manager were arrested Wednesday on charges of absentee ballot fraud and voting violations.

Henry, 41, handily won re-election to the non-partisan Zone 5 city commission seat on Aug. 24, but he could soon be suspended from office following an investigation in which he and his campaign manager, Genesis Robinson, 21, admitted to fraudulently ordering dozens of absentee ballots.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...ecial-election
More at:

http://eccie.net/showpost.php?p=2051835&postcount=27

[nevergaveitathought]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Notice the word 'occurences' is misspelled, which immediately makes the chart suspect.

you are correct sir, i thought something looked fishy when i typed my post above ..i looked at occurences and hovered over that..then i typed it like the chart and then i stopped and looked at it..and thought ..two c's and 2 r's right?? to myself..and then i just kept it as they had it but since your post i have edited mine