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ThatManFromTexas · 09-07-2010, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LexusLover

Information IS good, as long as it is good information. I think that was his last point, but I do not speak for him.

You asked: "How about circumventing an arrest?"

Texas Penal Code § 38.05. HINDERING APPREHENSION OR PROSECUTION. (a) A person commits an offense if, with intent to hinder the arrest, prosecution, conviction, or punishment of another for an offense …. he:
(1) …..;
(2) provides or aids in providing the other with any means of avoiding arrest or effecting escape; or
(3) …..
(b) …..
(c) Except as provided by Subsection (d), an offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor."

and the offense is ..... prostitution and based upon the potential facts ... aggravated prostitution.

The ethical problem is that the attorney is giving advice at the "seminar" on how to avoid being arrested for an offense that has not yet occurred and thereby facilitating the attendees at the "seminar" in the commission of crimes that are being contemplated by the purpose of the "seminar" ....

As I said, I am NOT "opposed" to obtaining legal advice at all, and did NOT say that getting legal advice was a bad idea, ... I said that a "group" setting was a bad idea.

For instance: What if one of the group elects to waive the attorney-client privilege and discuss with LE what happened in the "seminar"?

Counselor, I have attended "Seminars" presented by attorneys specializing in issues concerning the adult industry. They didn't offer points on breaking the law, but they did present a down to earth explanation of how the legal system works and explained what different legal terms meant. I'm sure they were just using the seminars as a marketing tool to attract new clients but they did provide useful general information. For an indepth discussion of a specific situation required setting up a formal appointment at their office at a later date.

You have been generous enough from time to time to explain how a term is being used inappropriately in discussions here and many people have benefited from that. I find it hard to believe that a individual of your education, learning and professional standing could not find a way to address the items I listed in my initial post without breaking the law, or violating ethics codes. But then again, I'm not a lawyer, so there ya go.

My main point was, the ladies here would be better served by a legal professional explaining the definition of entrapment than hearing it from a broke down old cowboy like me or Gawd forbid the misinformation bandied about by misinformed individuals from the Hobby.

Have a Good Day counselor.

LexusLover · 09-07-2010, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatManFromTexas

..... I have attended "Seminars" presented by attorneys specializing in issues concerning the adult industry.

I'm not a lawyer, so there ya go.

As to the latter, I accept that admission.

I have attended seminars regarding the banking industry, and I am sure that any one of the "presenters" who had a license to practice law, were "available" for "one-on-one" consultations regarding the legal issues surrounding banking transactions and contracts, but they were not giving advice to persons who were there to understand how to avoid being arrested for robbing banks!

Using an example of "porn (adult) industry seminars" IS misguided....and you might want to go back and re-read your original "proposition" (Post #1) to which I was responding.

Although there is obviously some "counseling" needed, it appears, I am not a "Counselor." I have over the years REPEATEDLY recommended to any posters on boards to seek legal advice from an attorney by finding one that is considered reputable and intelligent and paying them a fee to get their best advice and guidance to avoid trouble... if it all possible.

"Ounce of prevention....."

Fortunately for attorneys, most people don't seem to do that.

tikkler33 · 09-07-2010, 12:08 PM

All of the ladies attending the seminar could be naked so that the lawyer would know that none of them are wearing wires. Just sayin'...

LexusLover · 09-07-2010, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tikkler33

All of the ladies attending the seminar ...

How about the lawyer?

And the next thing you are going to recommend is a ....

... cavity search for listening devices?

dearhunter · 09-07-2010, 01:02 PM

Who's got the door?

ThatManFromTexas · 09-07-2010, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LexusLover

As to the latter, I accept that admission.

I have attended seminars regarding the banking industry, and I am sure that any one of the "presenters" who had a license to practice law, were "available" for "one-on-one" consultations regarding the legal issues surrounding banking transactions and contracts, but they were not giving advice to persons who were there to understand how to avoid being arrested for robbing banks!

Using an example of "porn (adult) industry seminars" IS misguided....and you might want to go back and re-read your original "proposition" (Post #1) to which I was responding.

1. I will concede that in reference to current events.... bankers and lawyers are more closely related to providers than the adult industry is.

2. Using an example of banking seminars IS misguided as unlike bankers and lawyers, providers do have ethical issues they will not violate for money.

boardman · 09-07-2010, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dearhunter

Who's got the door?

Fuck that!

lizardking · 09-07-2010, 01:32 PM

Certainly, a lawyer participating in a general discussion of a legal topic does not generally constitute the giving of legal advice. Neither does lecturing at a seminar - including on-line seminars, which are very common these days - constitute the giving of legal advice.

For most of you, if you Google "Texas prostitution laws" you'll find a wealth of information about that subject, much of it published as marketing materials on the websites of lawyers practicing in that area and looking for that kind of business.

I don't want to speak out of school, but the entrapment issue is a very simple one. The Texas Penal Code provides an exception for a law enforcement officer "breaking the law" in order to catch a civilian breaking the law. I haven't looked up the statute, but it says something like "the commission of an offense by a peace officer committed for the purpose of detecting the commission of an offense by another does not constitute an offense." (That's about a 30-year-old recollection, so it may not be very accurate . . . but you get the idea). Thus, a cop posing as a fence to buy stolen goods or posing as a drug buyer to bust a dealer is in the clear. And, yes, undercover cops can and do use illegal drugs. The whole idea that a cop cannot get nekkid or actually participate in a sex act with a provider is, legally speaking, bullshit (as far as I know . . . LL, I know you'll chime in if I'm wrong). However, as a practical matter, most LE agencies have a policy prohibiting such conduct, and I doubt it would look very good to a judge or jury . . . if either were inclined to believe the provider, whose testimony would very likely be the sole source of that information. The real point here is that to rise to the level of entrapment (per Texas case law) the inducement by the cop to commit the offense must be of such a nature that an ordinary law abiding citizen would have been induced to commit it. That's a pretty high burden, and entrapment is rarely submitted to a jury.

LexusLover · 09-07-2010, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizardking

....to rise to the level of entrapment (per Texas case law) the inducement by the cop to commit the offense must be of such a nature that an ordinary law abiding citizen would have been induced to commit it. That's a pretty high burden, and entrapment is rarely submitted to a jury.

That is my understanding with the emphasis on "high burden" ...

... and this seminar talk reminded me of a "situation" many years ago in San Marcos when undercover narcotics officer(s) attended the NA meetings on campus at S.W. Texas ....

pyramider · 09-07-2010, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boardman

What if everyone wore blindfolds or masks?

Just helps during the body cavity searches. Spread 'em

ThatManFromTexas · 09-08-2010, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LexusLover

That is my understanding with the emphasis on "high burden" ...

... and this seminar talk reminded me of a "situation" many years ago in San Marcos when undercover narcotics officer(s) attended the NA meetings on campus at S.W. Texas ....

At the DefCon Hackers convention in Las Vegas they pick out Federal Agents trying to blend in with the crowds and offer them a "I AM A Fed" tee shirt if they will fess up

Back in the 90's I heard a female lawyer giving a presentation at DefCon, she said the FBI had called her before she came to the event urging her to advise hackers to cooperate when caught by spilling their guts ... She then stated... "That's B.S., don't talk!" She went on to remind everyone not to start chunking evidence out the window when the Feds pull up in your driveway... But then again... she was a California Lawyer... so there ya go...