Slut Walk

[Cpalmson]

BTW, I get what "slut-walk" means and don't need "schooling". Also FWIW, I agree with the point that the way a woman dresses isn't an invitation to be raped. However, let's all be honest with ourselves, people do things with a goal in mind. Women who dress provocatively have a reason for doing so. They shouldn't be "shocked" when they get certain responses to their dress. On the flip side, that doesn't mean a guy has the right to rape her/take advantage of her. That is wrong. As for the protesters, it is counter-productive. It is just like the flamingly flamboyant gay-day parades where gays dress and act in a way that just pisses off 99% of the rest of the population. If you have a point to make, do it reasonably and not in a way that makes you look foolish.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by Carrie Hillcrest

What she said. Y'all... seriously? I don't know if it's funny or sad that many of the posts in this thread are espousing the very mindset that Slut Walk is protesting against.

I don't have the time or patience to break it down for you, so here's the eternal fount of knowledge, Wikipedia, to give you some background:

"The SlutWalk rallies protest the belief that an attractive appearance and/or a tendency to enjoy sex is an invitation for rape[2], in response to remarks such as made by a Toronto Police officer that "women should avoid dressing like sluts" in order not to be victimized .... The co-founders of the walk, Sonya Barnett and Heather Jarvis, decided to use the word slut in their demonstration because it is the same word that was used by Sanguinetti to describe the attire of rape victims.[11] The organization's website states "historically, the term ‘slut’ has carried a predominantly negative connotation. Aimed at those who are sexually promiscuous, be it for work or pleasure, it has primarily been women who have suffered under the burden of this label. And whether dished out as a serious indictment of one’s character or merely as a flippant insult, the intent behind the word is always to wound, so we’re taking it back. “Slut” is being re-appropriated.""
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/SlutWalk

Originally Posted by Carrie Hillcrest

In retrospect, I shouldn't have quoted the entire first part of amusemeant's post -- the portion I was wholeheartedly agreeing with was her dismay over the tone and language being used to, as far as I could tell, dismiss the issues in debate and the women voicing them. So, my apologies for that; I meant to call you all "insensitive clods".

FWIW, I agree with you that the Slut Walk isn't how I would approach the issues were this my cause. Like any protest, however, the main goal is to draw attention to the cause, with education and debate being secondary. I understand why they would choose this method; it's impossible to change peoples' minds or make them re-evaluate their thinking when you have no other way to reach them (or think you have no other way to reach them). Unfortunately, like so many other "shocking" sorts of protest styles, what many on the outside end up focusing on is how the message is delivered instead of the message itself. Alienating an audience frequently renders them deaf to your message.

I also have mixed feelings about "[x] taking back the word [y]", where [x] is a minority group and [y] a derogatory term used against them by people outside the group. This is hardly the first attempt at language re-appropriation; you see this tactic with many minority racial groups and racist terms hurled at them. As far as I know, though, it's not once changed the impact those terms have. I don't know if the "taking back 'slut'" part of the Slut Walk is even worth the effort.

Yeah! Carrie, I agree with you. It astounds me that anyone can marginalize another human being unless they engage in conduct that is totally and completely abusive and evil. Human beings are just that: human beings. We all choose our own paths in this world and shouldn't be condemned for our paths so long as we don't hurt others.

There are lots of "protests" regarding the issue of sex and sexuality that I might not take up, but that doesn't mean I'm not sympathetic. IDT that calling anyone a "slut" has any meaning other than telling us more about the name caller than the object of his/her derision.

[Carrie Hillcrest]

Originally Posted by Fast Gunn

Where in the world did you learn to apologize, girl?

Did you attend the Don Rickles School of Apology,

. . . you little hockey puck?

Haha! Just call me "Ms. Warmth".

[Layedback]

I think what it's called is being over analyzed and folks are being a little too literal about it.The idea is to bring attention to the cause,if they used some acro like "woman against rape" or something of the sort, they'd probably get a few hundred people and a blurb in the Toronto Sun.Instead it's being debated all over and even on hooker board from folks as far away as Texas.That's what I call raising awareness.Besides I happen to love sluts ,so if they support it too all the better HA!

[Still Looking]

Originally Posted by Layedback

I think what it's called is being over analyzed and folks are being a little too literal about it.The idea is to bring attention to the cause,if they used some acro like "woman against rape" or something of the sort, they'd probably get a few hundred people and a blurb in the Toronto Sun.Instead it's being debated all over and even on hooker board from folks as far away as Texas.That's what I call raising awareness.Besides I happen to love sluts ,so if they support it too all the better HA!

Rape: Even men are against this one!
Board Hookers: Send them to me, didn't know there were any out there?
Love Sluts: Another provider acronim?

[acp5762]

I find this very interesting. " The Slut Walk" I was unaware of this till now. women protesting against men who sexually harrass them in terms of the type of attire they don, being it skimpy, or provacative ect. That brings a point. A few years ago I read an interesting article about women and they way they dress. The article explained very simply Women don't dress sexy or provacative for men, they dress that way for women. So when you are out and about and you see sexy women dressed sexy theres a hidden order amongst women in terms of their dress and it's not for us men. I call it the fashions of the " Bitch" women dress this way to basically fuck with one another. We dress for the women and they really don't care that much except for our shoes. No matter what kind you wear the main thing is to make sure they are clean shoe laces are new and the leather is polished, outside of that she's basically ok with anything you wear. so what is the basic message of the "Slut Walk" it's telling men to back off, their dress is not for us to ogle over and think we can be foreward sexually with them based on what little they are wearing or how they are wearing it.

[Cpalmson]

Originally Posted by acp5762

I find this very interesting. " The Slut Walk" I was unaware of this till now. women protesting against men who sexually harrass them in terms of the type of attire they don, being it skimpy, or provacative ect. That brings a point. A few years ago I read an interesting article about women and they way they dress. The article explained very simply Women don't dress sexy or provacative for men, they dress that way for women. So when you are out and about and you see sexy women dressed sexy theres a hidden order amongst women in terms of their dress and it's not for us men. I call it the fashions of the " Bitch" women dress this way to basically fuck with one another. We dress for the women and they really don't care that much except for our shoes. No matter what kind you wear the main thing is to make sure they are clean shoe laces are new and the leather is polished, outside of that she's basically ok with anything you wear. so what is the basic message of the "Slut Walk" it's telling men to back off, their dress is not for us to ogle over and think we can be foreward sexually with them based on what little they are wearing or how they are wearing it.

And I bet the article you read was written by either a feminist, a lesbian, or a gay guy fashion designer Trust me on this one, women dress provocatively in order to gain the attention of men. It is Sexual Darwinism 101.

[guest060112-3]

I just kind of perused this without clicking on the link, but I did want to add that all sorts of women are subject to rape. It's not a pretty versus ugly issue that a pretty person is going to have a higher risk (at least I don't think so based on what I've read and from talking to friends who have been raped.)

Rape isn't even that sexual since most men have opportunities to have sex with someone who's willing to have sex with them. Now, they may not have sex with the person highest on their preference list, but even outside of the hobby I don't think it's exactly hard to get sex.

Rape is a power issue-- someone wanting to dominate another person and take their will away. Now, does it have sexual overtones, like a rapist seeing a woman he would think he'd never have a shot with and trying to rape her? Absolutely. But from my friends' experiences, typically rape occurs because the target is least likely to make a fuss-- This is why familial rape, or some sort of rape where there's a power differential between the two people, like teacher/student, coach/sports player, stepfather/stepdaughter, occurs often enough.

It can also be a crime of opportunity. I met a woman once who was raped behind a supermarket because she'd gone to ask the manager if they had any boxes (to pack up belongings of her recently deceased parents of all emotionally charged situations to be in the midst of) and when she went out back and was grabbing boxes, she was grabbed and raped.

The most heartbreaking thing is that in all the turmoil and trauma she went racing back to her parents house and started banging on the door sobbing and begging to be let in before she remembered that on top of being raped, her parents had just died. She pretty much just broke down and collapsed on the front porch bawling.

Sorry to digress, but it was especially poignant and sticks in my mind.

Anyway, she wasn't all that attractive. She was older, heavyset, and even though it had happened a couple of years back, it wasn't as if she was some hot hussy wandering around in sexy clothes.

This was a hit and run crime of opportunity. Another girlfriend of mine, cute as she was, always wore the baggiest clothes and yet, I think it was her neighbor, targeted her because he knew that she would be an easy repeat target. A friend of an ex-boyfriend of mine was actually gang-raped by three of her classmates when she went over to visit and hang out. Now, while she was cute, it was more a matter of the guys (in my opinion) seeing what they could get away with and getting off on the power surge of having to have such total power over another human being. It wasn't some surge of lust that occurred because any of these females were hot. It had to do with power and opportunity and being considered an "easy target" so as to avoid being caught.

A couple of months back I caught a story about an 80 something year old lady having her house broken into and being repeatedly raped and brutalized over a few hours span.

These are not the exceptions to the rule.

Any of the stories that had to do with "hot" women being raped had less to do with the woman's attractiveness and more to do with her being inebriated and separated from her friends.

There was also a court case a forum was discussing awhile back about a judge ruling that because a woman was wearing tight skinny jeans that a rapist couldn't possibly have gotten them off of her without her consent.

Now, taking away the issue of coercion-- where you can force a person to submit to your will without having to aggressively wrestle them to the grown and tear their clothes off, one woman responded to the skinny jean verdict with something along the lines of, "shit, my boyfriend can get off my skinny jeans in two seconds without any help from me so that judge's claim is bogus."

Unfortunately, I think because most men don't understand what it is to have to be aware on a daily basis the dangers of being a female in the wrong place at the wrong time, that people, especially cops, and judges and even nurses, want to minimize how huge this issue is and that it really can happen to ANY woman at almost ANY time and it doesn't have to have anything to do with her clothing or her "asking for it." Even I catch myself asking details about a rape case when I hear about it because I'm trying to figure out what the woman did wrong and how to avoid being raped myself.

And I'm actually pretty educated about this, and take an active interest in these cases, and know that rape is never asked for-- how fucked up is that? Imagine the vast majority of people who continue life in willful ignorance, how likely they are to not just wonder what the woman did wrong (if there were anything that could be considered "missteps") but will instead rush right through to blaming everything on her, her behavior, her clothing, her choices because doing all that negates that it could ever happen to them or anyone they know.

[Fast Gunn]

There is a reason that rape is called a fate worse than death.

Although women suffer this crime more than men, many men are raped in prison every day and they suffer as much if not more so by such a violation of their body.

My heart goes out to these victims and I am all for finding ways to end this tragic crime, but the point of this thread was the questionable method the women in the Slut Walk are going about bringing attention to their cause.

. . . Personally, I would call it the Rape Awareness March and put the focus on the crime where it belongs instead of placing such a harsh label on the women involved.

The statistics of the crime are sobering as the facts in the link below show:

http://www.paralumun.com/issuesrapestats.htm

[acp5762]

Originally Posted by Cpalmson

And I bet the article you read was written by either a feminist, a lesbian, or a gay guy fashion designer Trust me on this one, women dress provocatively in order to gain the attention of men. It is Sexual Darwinism 101.

No none of those. The article was actually written by a college professor who taught Psychology and Human Behavior courses. I can't recall the college he taught at. The article was written from information he recieved from female students he interviewed on the campus he taught at. He was doing a study on human behavior. His study mainly revolved around women and relationship. The information he compiled was something he was surprised to have learned so he wrote an article on it. Women dress provocative and gain the attention from men. Its not intentional in order to gain the attention from men. Sexual Darwinism is really nothing but a dime store term that has no backing but it sounds good, so guys like you will fall for it's meaning. Put your sexual darwinism to this test. You're in a Bar and you see two girls dancing. To most everyone thats acceptable. If you see two guys dancing your first reaction is they're Gay. Why would two hot chicks be dancing with eachother. Heres a hint. It's not because they are lonely and no guys will ask them to dance, or because they are trying to put themselves on display so someone will ask them to dance.

[Tiffany Cums]

I agree woman dress to impress other woman. You think men are competitive? Women try to outclass each other at every given moment. This was something taught to us in school. You boys had your sports, we had to deal with trying to be the best dressed and getting our makeup sneaked past our parents.

The attention we receive from men is secondary, and usually something we do not pay that close attention to…..Unless, she is in a position in her life to need or crave the attention of the men, such as being an escort.

[Fast Gunn]

I don't want to derail my own thread, but feel I must address a recurrent attempt by some to marginalize the importance of men.

Ladies, the fact is that you need us.

Without men, women would have no purpose in this world.

It is high time that you showed a little more gratitude for the dick that we generously and selflessly supply you with.

. . . Without the generous supply of dick we provide you with, you ladies would become like withered flowers and it is best that you do not forget that!