Perry in debate: Lets throw Science "OUT THE DOOR"

[CPT Savajo]

Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

To be honest with you CPT- I watched the whole debate and if I didn't know any better I could have said it was a 2 man debate between Perry and Romney-I don't think the moderators were fair in the distribution of question- I wonder if there's a stat that shows who got asked the most questions.

They weren't fair at all and it basically was a two man debate. The whole damn thing was RIGGED!

[Guest040616]

Perry is leaving himself extremely vulnerable by trying to make the argument that Social Security is a "Ponzi Scheme." PolitiFact has already determined that to be a "false" statement. I recognize that the Tea Party and Birther Movement loves that kind of rhetoric but moderates and independents will quickly lose interest in his candidacy. Perry cannot win the General election without the Indy vote.

Perry is no longer playing to the East Texas Redneck crowd. I suspect he will quickly lose credibility with moderate Dems and Repubs. Once that occurs he will become the 2011/2012 version of Rudy Guiliani! I am left to wonder if Gov Good Hair likes the taste of burnt toast!

[Laz]

Originally Posted by WTF

The fuc'n thing is good 'till the year 2036 and then could pay 75% through 2085 without adjustments. How many of you have your finances in that good of shape?

It is not a Ponzi scheme. It has been a way for this country to not address the fact that SS overpayment has made it possible for us to overspend on Defense without having any reprecussions.

Do you folks even understand how the tax system works? The Defense Department is spending the fuc out of your retirement savings and we have not adjusted for the fact that people are living longer.

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/trsum/index.html



Social Security expenditures exceeded the program’s non-interest income in 2010 for the first time since 1983. The $49 billion deficit last year (excluding interest income) and $46 billion projected deficit in 2011 are in large part due to the weakened economy and to downward income adjustments that correct for excess payroll tax revenue credited to the trust funds in earlier years. This deficit is expected to shrink to about $20 billion for years 2012-2014 as the economy strengthens. After 2014, cash deficits are expected to grow rapidly as the number of beneficiaries continues to grow at a substantially faster rate than the number of covered workers. Through 2022, the annual cash deficits will be made up by redeeming trust fund assets from the General Fund of the Treasury. Because these redemptions will be less than interest earnings, trust fund balances will continue to grow. After 2022, trust fund assets will be redeemed in amounts that exceed interest earnings until trust fund reserves are exhausted in 2036, one year earlier than was projected last year. Thereafter, tax income would be sufficient to pay only about three-quarters of scheduled benefits through 2085.

This statement would be accurate if the money was set aside in an investment that someone else owed the US. The money is in Tbills which means that we have borrowed it from ourselves. The only way to redeam those tbills is to raise taxes, lower benefits, or massivly cut other spending.

Raising taxes is forcing new investors to put more money in to support the ponzi scheme. They will not get a reasonable return on that investment.

Lowering benefits is changing the promised investment return. This has already been done once and will likely be done again. Many investors will never get a reasonable return on their investment. This is most likely what will happen.

Cutting spending in other areas of the budget would over time require the elimination of all non entitlement and some military spending. Not going to happen.

You may not like the ponzi scheme description but, since the congresses of the last 30+ years have spent the money, it fits.

And finally Yes I understand how Social Security works very well. I also understand basic math which most people that do not recognize the problem apparently don't.

[Iaintliein]

It's about time somebody called SS what it is and always has been. Most seniors know it was all about stealing money to buy votes, and most know that nobody is talking about abruptly ending it.

Fear mongering is all the left has ever had. Ooooo look, global cooling,,ummm I mean global warming, ummmm Sadam will kick our ass if we go there.....republicans want to starve kids and old ladies,, yeah, yeah, that's the ticket. The left is pathetic.

[bigdog0311]

The Social Security situation is a "Ponzi scheme".........The government has used the money that was in SS to pay for other things in their wasteful spending habits and continue to do so, while they pay the retirees from borrowed money, so that is why SS is going to be going away as the borrowed money is running out..Perry was right about that

[rjdiner]

WTF
You notice how these fact challenged wingers won't address the well researched information you put out there?
Don't waste your breath on these idiots. after all they don't believe in climate science or evolution but they believe there was an immaculate conception and a resurrection.
They're hopeless.

Originally Posted by WTF

The fuc'n thing is good 'till the year 2036 and then could pay 75% through 2085 without adjustments. How many of you have your finances in that good of shape?

It is not a Ponzi scheme. It has been a way for this country to not address the fact that SS overpayment has made it possible for us to overspend on Defense without having any reprecussions.

Do you folks even understand how the tax system works? The Defense Department is spending the fuc out of your retirement savings and we have not adjusted for the fact that people are living longer.

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/trsum/index.html



Social Security expenditures exceeded the program’s non-interest income in 2010 for the first time since 1983. The $49 billion deficit last year (excluding interest income) and $46 billion projected deficit in 2011 are in large part due to the weakened economy and to downward income adjustments that correct for excess payroll tax revenue credited to the trust funds in earlier years. This deficit is expected to shrink to about $20 billion for years 2012-2014 as the economy strengthens. After 2014, cash deficits are expected to grow rapidly as the number of beneficiaries continues to grow at a substantially faster rate than the number of covered workers. Through 2022, the annual cash deficits will be made up by redeeming trust fund assets from the General Fund of the Treasury. Because these redemptions will be less than interest earnings, trust fund balances will continue to grow. After 2022, trust fund assets will be redeemed in amounts that exceed interest earnings until trust fund reserves are exhausted in 2036, one year earlier than was projected last year. Thereafter, tax income would be sufficient to pay only about three-quarters of scheduled benefits through 2085.

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by bigdog0311

The Social Security situation is a "Ponzi scheme".........Perry was right about that

The professional fact checkers disagree! Perry uses words and descriptions, like "Ponzi Scheme," loosely with little basis for fact. He can get away with that when he is speaking to a Tea Party audience and/or our East Texas Rednecks! The term "Ponzi Scheme" originated from a 1920 era swindler who conned investors out of millions of dollars by promising returns of up to 100% with a short term, 90 day investment, in foreign postal coupons. After a small group of original investors sucked in huge profits, subsequent groups of investors thought they would match the profits realized by the initial group. They soon found out those profits mainly connsisted of money paid in by the 2nd tier of investors. The only ones who reaped the rewards were Charles Ponzi and the small group of the original investors. The rest lost huge bucks!

The Social Security system is a pay as you go system that transfers payroll tax collections from the American workforce to eligible retirees. The Ponzi Scheme comparison does not apply. You may have philosophical differences with the Social Security tax itself but that is a different issue entirely.

At the end of the day, Social Security is, what it is! What it is not, is a "Ponzi Scheme!" Our emphasis should be more along the lines of making the necessary changes to insure long term viabilty of the system itself. As opposed to wasting our time discussing whether the Social Security Administration is an illegal investment practice!

[CuteOldGuy]

Well researched = quoting a government agency. LOL!

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Well researched = quoting a government agency. LOL!

I did not quote a governmental agency! If I were inclined to look up "Ponzi Scheme," the last place I would look would be a governmental agency. Wikipedia has a much more detailed definition than what I described in my prior post.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

PolitiFact rated Perry's, "Ponzi Scheme" comparison as being "false."

What else can I say?

http://www.politifact.com/texas/arti...-ponzi-scheme/

[Ray007]

Geeesh, the Social Security issue isn't sitting well with folks on Social Security nor on the 79 million "Baby Boomers" soon to be Social Security recipients. Need I remind you some of those "Baby Boomers" are already on Social Security!

[TheDaliLama]

Perry in debate: Lets throw Science "OUT THE DOOR"

Once again....Perry never said that.

[rjdiner]

Well, there you go again, confusing the wing nuts with facts.

Originally Posted by bigtex

I did not quote a governmental agency! If I were inclined to look up "Ponzi Scheme," the last place I would look would be a governmental agency. Wikipedia has a much more detailed definition than what I described in my prior post.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

PolitiFact rated Perry's, "Ponzi Scheme" comparison as being "false."

What else can I say?

http://www.politifact.com/texas/arti...-ponzi-scheme/

[Laz]

Originally Posted by bigtex

The professional fact checkers disagree! Perry uses words and descriptions, like "Ponzi Scheme," loosely with little basis for fact. He can get away with that when he is speaking to a Tea Party audience and/or our East Texas Rednecks! The term "Ponzi Scheme" originated from a 1920 era swindler who conned investors out of millions of dollars by promising returns of up to 100% with a short term, 90 day investment, in foreign postal coupons. After a small group of original investors sucked in huge profits, subsequent groups of investors thought they would match the profits realized by the initial group. They soon found out those profits mainly connsisted of money paid in by the 2nd tier of investors. The only ones who reaped the rewards were Charles Ponzi and the small group of the original investors. The rest lost huge bucks!

The Social Security system is a pay as you go system that transfers payroll tax collections from the American workforce to eligible retirees. The Ponzi Scheme comparison does not apply. You may have philosophical differences with the Social Security tax itself but that is a different issue entirely.

At the end of the day, Social Security is, what it is! What it is not, is a "Ponzi Scheme!" Our emphasis should be more along the lines of making the necessary changes to insure long term viabilty of the system itself. As opposed to wasting our time discussing whether the Social Security Administration is an illegal investment practice!

Go out in the marketplace and try to sell a retirement plan based on the Social Security model. See if you do not get shut down or thrown in jail. The biggest problem is that you would not find any investors unless you lie to them.

[TheDaliLama]

Originally Posted by rjdiner

Well, there you go again, confusing the wing nuts with facts.

The title of this thread is:

Perry in Debate... and in quotations "OUT THE DOOR"

Is that a fact or a lie?

It never happened. Who's trying to confuse who?

All you Global Warmers say "The debate is over." What debate? When did it happen? Who did Algore debate it with? He refuses to be questioned about it. When some one tells you the debate is over they are trying to hide something.

The fact is the earth has been getting cooler every since the global warming started.

I'm all for science but there is no such thing as fixed science. I've heard nothing but rebutals to GW for years.

Btw... The word "Ponsi" is a metaphor and can be used for any kind of con game. Just like when I go take a shit..I say I have to go take a WTF.

[waverunner234]

Originally Posted by TheDaliLama

Perry in debate: Lets throw Science "OUT THE DOOR"

Once again....Perry never said that.

Lets say (his) jobs are more important than research to find out if they are responsible jobs.
It's like sending a child rapist home until he's convicted, then after all the prove is in place, call him and tell him to report to state prison to sit for his life sentence