More fun with Covid

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

No, that many people did not die of Covid. Think about what you posted. It's been said from the start that Covid-19 is in the family of Corona viruses. Corona Viruses are responsible for the "Common Cold". One Million people do not die from the common cold a million people might die with the common cold but not from it. Those that died from Covid-19 actually developed secondary infections such as Pneumonia.

Fair enough Levianon. You could take that further and say they all died of cardiac arrest.

There were more excess deaths since the start of the pandemic than people who died "with" COVID. (You estimate "excess deaths" by looking at deaths in previous years and taking into account demographic considerations, like an aging population.) Looking at excess death statistics, you should agree that over 1.1 million have died in the USA as a result of COVID. I'd argue most of the excess number died as a result of medical complications of the virus, although you could attribute the excess in part to suicides, poorer access to medical care, etc., brought on by the pandemic and how we reacted to it.

MERS and SARS, two other coronaviruses, had much higher fatality ratios than COVID 19. The case fatality rates for those two were around 35% and 10% respectively.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Fair enough Levianon. You could take that further and say they all died of cardiac arrest.

There were more excess deaths since the start of the pandemic than people who died "with" COVID. (You estimate "excess deaths" by looking at deaths in previous years and taking into account demographic considerations, like an aging population.) Looking at excess death statistics, you should agree that over 1.1 million have died in the USA as a result of COVID. I'd argue most of the excess number died as a result of medical complications of the virus, although you could attribute the excess in part to suicides, poorer access to medical care, etc., brought on by the pandemic and how we reacted to it.

MERS and SARS, two other coronaviruses, had much higher fatality ratios than COVID 19. The case fatality rates for those two were around 35% and 10% respectively.

I can't agree with fiction especially when it comes to Health Matters.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

I can't agree with fiction especially when it comes to Health Matters.

OK, Then please explain this. Here are U.S. deaths by year,

2022 3.27 million
2021 3.46 million
2020 3.38 million
2019 2.85 million
2018 2.84 million
2017 2.81 million
2016 2.74 million
2015 2.71 million
2014 2.63 million

Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/...es-since-1990/

Deaths were increasing by 1.6% per year from 2014 to 2020. Based on that trend, without the COVID pandemic, deaths per year would have been

2022 2.99 million
2021 2.94 million
2020 2.89 million

Subtracting actual deaths from the trendline deaths you get

2022 280,000 excess deaths
2021 520,000 excess deaths
2020 490,000 excess deaths

Total excess deaths for 2020 to 2022: 1,290,000 excess deaths

What caused those 1,290,000 excess deaths, from 2020 to 2022?

Please note you can't say "the COVID vaccine" for 2020, as there was no COVID vaccine in 2020.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by Tiny

OK, Then please explain this. Here are U.S. deaths by year,

2022 3.27 million
2021 3.46 million
2020 3.38 million
2019 2.85 million
2018 2.84 million
2017 2.81 million
2016 2.74 million
2015 2.71 million
2014 2.63 million

Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/...es-since-1990/

Deaths were increasing by 1.6% per year from 2014 to 2020. Based on that trend, without the COVID pandemic, deaths per year would have been

2022 2.99 million
2021 2.94 million
2020 2.89 million

Subtracting actual deaths from the trendline deaths you get

2022 280,000 excess deaths
2021 520,000 excess deaths
2020 490,000 excess deaths

Total excess deaths for 2020 to 2022: 1,290,000 excess deaths

What caused those 1,290,000 excess deaths, from 2020 to 2022?

Please note you can't say "the COVID vaccine" for 2020, as there was no COVID vaccine in 2020.

Here's my explanation. Numbers that don't correlate with anything tangible.

[The_Waco_Kid]

this just in from Australia .. 3 YEARS AGO ...

now it's news again. because it was true all along

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...gn-manipulati/

Australian researchers see virus design manipulation

By Bill Gertz - The Washington Times - Thursday, May 21, 2020

A forthcoming Australian scientific study concludes that the coronavirus causing the global pandemic contains unique properties suggesting it was manipulated in a Chinese laboratory and was not the result of a natural occurrence.


Five scientists who conducted the study discovered an unusual ability of the SARS-CoV-2 virus, as the pathogen behind COVID-19 is called, to easily infect humans.


The scientists said there is no sign so far that the virus can be found in other animals, including bats or the exotic wildlife sold for fresh meat at a market in the Chinese city of Wuhan, where the virus was first identified and where China maintains a major laboratory studying such viruses.


The preliminary report of the study, which is now being peer-reviewed, is based on computer modeling of the virus’ ability to infect various animals, including humans. It was published May 13 on the Cornell University website arXiv.org, which is used for discussion of pre-publication papers.


Nikolai Petrovsky, the lead researcher, said his team suspects human manipulation in Wuhan because of the unmatched ability of the virus’ protruding spike to infect human cells.


The virus’ binding strength for human cells “far exceeds” similar properties for infecting other animals, he said in a statement on the forthcoming report.


“This, plus the fact that no corresponding virus has been found to exist in nature, leads to the possibility that COVID-19 is a human-created virus,” said Mr. Petrovsky, a professor at the College of Medicine and Public Health at Flinders University in Adelaide, Australia.


“It is therefore entirely plausible that the virus was created in the biosecurity facility in Wuhan by selection on cells expressing human ACE2, a laboratory that was known to be cultivating exotic bat coronaviruses at the time.”


ACE2 is the acronym for angiotensin-converting enzyme 2, which is on cell surfaces. The enzyme is the entry point the coronavirus uses to infect organisms and spread.
Human lung cells contain ACE2 receptors that have been shown to be key targets of the SARS-CoV-2.


A laboratory-treated coronavirus also could have escaped the facility through an accidental infection of a staff member who then visited the Wuhan wild animal market, Mr. Petrovsky said. Other potential sources include inappropriate disposal of medical waste at a Wuhan laboratory or transmission from a cat or other animal that came into contact with infected waste.


Mr. Petrovsky said the research team believes the quick evolution of the coronavirus and its unique ability to infect humans are either “a remarkable coincidence or a sign of human intervention.”


Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying denied again this month that the Wuhan Institute of Virology, which houses China’s high-security laboratory studying pathogens, was the source of the outbreak. The head of the Wuhan laboratory has also said she is convinced after a review that her lab played no role in the virus’ spread.


Another Chinese Foreign Ministry official, Zhao Lijian, suggested that the U.S. Army brought the virus to China. President Trump and other top officials angrily denied that accusation.


The Australian study contradicts other scientists’ assertions that there is no evidence the virus originated in a Chinese laboratory or that it is the result of laboratory bioengineering.


Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and a key adviser to Mr. Trump on the pandemic, has dismissed any suggestion that the virus came from a Chinese laboratory.


“If you look at the evolution of the virus in bats and what’s out there now, [the scientific evidence] is very, very strongly leaning toward this could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated,” he told National Geographic this month.


“Everything about the stepwise evolution over time strongly indicates that [this virus] evolved in nature and then jumped species.”


‘Highly adapted’ pathogen


The forthcoming study, however, concludes that the binding energy of the virus’ “spike” protein — the crownlike protrusions surrounding the surface of the round microbe — is highest for humans and greater than all other species tested, including bats, which have been widely targeted as the likely original source.


“This indicates that SARS-CoV-2 is a highly adapted human pathogen,” the Australian report said.


The team analyzed spike protein binding of the virus on a range of other animals, including pangolins, civets, mice, hamsters, cats, dogs, snakes, horses, tigers and cows.


“Overall, the data indicates that SARS-CoV-2 is uniquely adapted to infect humans, raising important questions as to whether it arose in nature by a rare chance event or whether its origins might lie elsewhere,” the report said.


Jonathan J. Couey, a research assistant professor of neurobiology at the University of Pittsburgh, said he agrees with the Australian findings.


“Understanding the exact origin of this virus is vital to ensure that all scientific and medical data are interpreted correctly by policymakers and health care professionals alike,” Mr. Couey said.


However, he said, debate on the laboratory origin of the virus has been stymied by scientists opposed to even considering the possibility.


“Several scientists with obvious conflicts of interest have been permitted to go on the record denying that it would be possible to generate such a virus in a laboratory and stating specifically that the sequence of SARS-CoV-2 would never have been chosen by any ‘gene jockey,’” he said in an email.


“Both of these denials are not genuine scientific rebuttals, but rather semantic pseudo-denials formulated by some of those most closely tied to the funding of these [gain of function] research lines.”


“Gain-of-function research” is laboratory work to increase the ability of pathogens to cause disease. It is carried out to study pandemics and how to respond to them.


or how not to respond ...

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

this just in from Australia .. 3 YEARS AGO ...

now it's news again. because it was true all along

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...gn-manipulati/

Australian researchers see virus design manipulation

By Bill Gertz - The Washington Times - Thursday, May 21, 2020

A forthcoming Australian scientific study concludes that the coronavirus causing the global pandemic contains unique properties suggesting it was manipulated in a Chinese laboratory and was not the result of a natural occurrence.


Five scientists who conducted the study discovered an unusual ability of the SARS-CoV-2 virus, as the pathogen behind COVID-19 is called, to easily infect humans.


The scientists said there is no sign so far that the virus can be found in other animals, including bats or the exotic wildlife sold for fresh meat at a market in the Chinese city of Wuhan, where the virus was first identified and where China maintains a major laboratory studying such viruses.


The preliminary report of the study, which is now being peer-reviewed, is based on computer modeling of the virus’ ability to infect various animals, including humans. It was published May 13 on the Cornell University website arXiv.org, which is used for discussion of pre-publication papers.


Nikolai Petrovsky, the lead researcher, said his team suspects human manipulation in Wuhan because of the unmatched ability of the virus’ protruding spike to infect human cells.


The virus’ binding strength for human cells “far exceeds” similar properties for infecting other animals, he said in a statement on the forthcoming report.


“This, plus the fact that no corresponding virus has been found to exist in nature, leads to the possibility that COVID-19 is a human-created virus,” said Mr. Petrovsky, a professor at the College of Medicine and Public Health at Flinders University in Adelaide, Australia.


“It is therefore entirely plausible that the virus was created in the biosecurity facility in Wuhan by selection on cells expressing human ACE2, a laboratory that was known to be cultivating exotic bat coronaviruses at the time.”


ACE2 is the acronym for angiotensin-converting enzyme 2, which is on cell surfaces. The enzyme is the entry point the coronavirus uses to infect organisms and spread.
Human lung cells contain ACE2 receptors that have been shown to be key targets of the SARS-CoV-2.


A laboratory-treated coronavirus also could have escaped the facility through an accidental infection of a staff member who then visited the Wuhan wild animal market, Mr. Petrovsky said. Other potential sources include inappropriate disposal of medical waste at a Wuhan laboratory or transmission from a cat or other animal that came into contact with infected waste.


Mr. Petrovsky said the research team believes the quick evolution of the coronavirus and its unique ability to infect humans are either “a remarkable coincidence or a sign of human intervention.”


Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying denied again this month that the Wuhan Institute of Virology, which houses China’s high-security laboratory studying pathogens, was the source of the outbreak. The head of the Wuhan laboratory has also said she is convinced after a review that her lab played no role in the virus’ spread.


Another Chinese Foreign Ministry official, Zhao Lijian, suggested that the U.S. Army brought the virus to China. President Trump and other top officials angrily denied that accusation.


The Australian study contradicts other scientists’ assertions that there is no evidence the virus originated in a Chinese laboratory or that it is the result of laboratory bioengineering.


Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and a key adviser to Mr. Trump on the pandemic, has dismissed any suggestion that the virus came from a Chinese laboratory.


“If you look at the evolution of the virus in bats and what’s out there now, [the scientific evidence] is very, very strongly leaning toward this could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated,” he told National Geographic this month.


“Everything about the stepwise evolution over time strongly indicates that [this virus] evolved in nature and then jumped species.”


‘Highly adapted’ pathogen


The forthcoming study, however, concludes that the binding energy of the virus’ “spike” protein — the crownlike protrusions surrounding the surface of the round microbe — is highest for humans and greater than all other species tested, including bats, which have been widely targeted as the likely original source.


“This indicates that SARS-CoV-2 is a highly adapted human pathogen,” the Australian report said.


The team analyzed spike protein binding of the virus on a range of other animals, including pangolins, civets, mice, hamsters, cats, dogs, snakes, horses, tigers and cows.


“Overall, the data indicates that SARS-CoV-2 is uniquely adapted to infect humans, raising important questions as to whether it arose in nature by a rare chance event or whether its origins might lie elsewhere,” the report said.


Jonathan J. Couey, a research assistant professor of neurobiology at the University of Pittsburgh, said he agrees with the Australian findings.


“Understanding the exact origin of this virus is vital to ensure that all scientific and medical data are interpreted correctly by policymakers and health care professionals alike,” Mr. Couey said.


However, he said, debate on the laboratory origin of the virus has been stymied by scientists opposed to even considering the possibility.


“Several scientists with obvious conflicts of interest have been permitted to go on the record denying that it would be possible to generate such a virus in a laboratory and stating specifically that the sequence of SARS-CoV-2 would never have been chosen by any ‘gene jockey,’” he said in an email.


“Both of these denials are not genuine scientific rebuttals, but rather semantic pseudo-denials formulated by some of those most closely tied to the funding of these [gain of function] research lines.”


“Gain-of-function research” is laboratory work to increase the ability of pathogens to cause disease. It is carried out to study pandemics and how to respond to them.


or how not to respond ...

If it was created instead of being naturally occurring the only way a person could become infected was through injection. It's been rumored that the Flu Vaccine during the 2018 and 2019 season various #Lots of vaccines were tainted with a protein similar to the spike which would induce illness. They referred to cases as Covid-19 in 2020 when the Flu cases were almost non existent. Covid-19 is really an Insilico Virus which actually means Computer generated. Covid-19 is not naturally Occurring nor is it airborne because it doesn't actually exist. Then they came up a "Vaccine". The vaccine was manufactured through Military Contracts, Pfizer and Maderna were paid to put their name on it to give the illusion of an actual Pharmaceutical. This information comes from RFK Jr. the Democrat Presidential Candidate for 2024.

[The_Waco_Kid]

in next week's news ...


"Top Chinese scientist goes missing"


BAAHHHAAAAAA


Top Chinese scientist concedes that coronavirus may have leaked from Wuhan lab

George Gao told the BBC that the possibility of a lab accident should not be discounted.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/top-chine...181714446.html

[Ducbutter]

Originally Posted by Tiny

So 1,129,838 people in the USA died as a result of COVID. The population of the USA in 2021 was 332 million. That's 0.34% of the population. A large percentage of the population got vaccinated before they got the disease and there are some people like me who never got disease. But the infection fatality rate (IFR) for people who were unvaccinated and previously uninfected was 0.15%. I'll call bull shit on that.

Back in the first part of 2021, before most people were vaccinated, you could estimate the % of Americans who had been infected from COVID from large scale antibody tests. With that and the number of deaths you could estimate an IFR, and it was around 0.5% to 0.8%.

Ioannidis who Dore is quoting has always been an outlier. Early in the epidemic he was calculating IFR's around 0.05% to 0.10% based on bogus methods he used to look at the disease in a couple of California counties. People used his research to justify the claim that only 40,000 or 50,000 Americans would die of COVID, that it would be no worse that the flu. Well, he turned out to be badly wrong.

Dore seems to have suffered severe memory loss. Hospitals were overrun all over America during the COVID waves. Those in my community couldn't handle the case load. We had a mobile morgue, to handle the excess bodies. I guess that must have been faked, along with the deaths and the number of hospital beds occupied by COVID patients. Yeah, Bill Gates and the rest of them really pulled one over on us.

As to Dore's spin, I'm not a believer in lockdowns. But voluntary social distancing and use of good quality masks could make a big difference and neither was a nuisance, to me at least. The woman at my gym who had an immune system disorder and some of the elderly people who I came into contact with appreciated that anyway. Yeah, if you're 40 years old, you were very unlikely to die of COVID in 2020. But if you gave it to someone in his 80's, the chance he'd die of it might have been, say, 10%.

There's plenty to quibble with there but I lack the time and energy currently. Feel free to isolate to whatever degree you feel safe with and mask up in like fashion. Just don't expect me to share in your risk aversion. I make no apology for the fact that I don't see your .8% IFR as all that threatening.
You'll excuse me if I have to run. I'm prepping my car for a track day at a local road course next weekend. Sabe?

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Ducbutter

There's plenty to quibble with there but I lack the time and energy currently. Feel free to isolate to whatever degree you feel safe with and mask up in like fashion. Just don't expect me to share in your risk aversion. I make no apology for the fact that I don't see your .8% IFR as all that threatening.
You'll excuse me if I have to run. I'm prepping my car for a track day at a local road course next weekend. Sabe?

Based on what I’d guess your age and physical condition are, your chances of dying if you got COVID in 2020 were a whole lot less than 0.8%. You might feel differently if you were 85. Or you might not. By your standards maybe I am risk averse. I passed up the chance to climb a volcano once because I figured my probability of dying on it was 0.4%. Or maybe I’m overly concerned about old people who are going to die in the next ten or fifteen years anyway. In any event I think you’d agree that it’s not your place to tell other people they shouldn’t have voluntarily worn a mask or social distanced during the pandemic. Entiendes?

[Ducbutter]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Based on what I’d guess your age and physical condition are, your chances of dying if you got COVID in 2020 were a whole lot less than 0.8%. You might feel differently if you were 85. Or you might not. I'm sure I will feel differently, and I'll take the steps necessary to protect myself By your standards maybe I am risk averse. I passed up the chance to climb a volcano once because I figured my probability of dying on it was 0.4%. Everyone is risk averse, just to different extents. Or maybe I’m overly concerned about old people who are going to die in the next ten or fifteen years anyway. Like the rest of us they are responsible for protecting themselves In any event I think you’d agree that it’s not your place to tell other people they shouldn’t have voluntarily worn a mask or social distanced during the pandemic. I think my previous post expressed that pretty clearly. Entiendes?

While I may have chided you for your strict adherence to masking, nowhere have I advocated for any restrictions on the wearing of masks, nor any restriction on how many boosters one might recieve. Instead, it is people who share your fears who are pushing for mandates of any kind. The "vaccine" doesn't stop the spread nor make the virus less virulent to the person who contracts it. It's personal protection. Like masks. I've never advocated for anything else.
BTW, I've chided you about excessive boosters too and now there's peer reviewed evidence that they are counter productive.

[Ducbutter]

You are always a class act Tiny.
Cheers!

[adav8s28]

Originally Posted by Ducbutter

I'm starting to think we were duped.




For Tiny's sake let's hope this turns out not to be the trend.

We were not duped. The video is saying SARS_CoV2 is like Influenza_A virus. The video is wrong on that. It takes Influenza_A virus TEN years to kill 400,000 people. SARS_CoV2 killed 400,000 people in 11 months.

The message in the M-RNA vaccine will keep you safe if you got it. Two Hundred Sixty million people got fully vaccinated in the USA. There were only 30,000 break through deaths. (A person got fully vaccinated, but still died from CoVid infection).

You don't want to be fooling around with the delta variant. That stuff was deadly unless you could get your hands on the Regeneron antibodies. The stuff they gave to Trump after his lungs got full of CoVid. Dr Ben Carson took it as well.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

So we are to believe that the flu, influenza, took it's first ever vacation in 2020-2021. Yet nobody even got a postcard from some sunny beach from it. Apparently it has come back, but nobody is celebrating or even noticed any tan lines on the flu. Seems odd.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by adav8s28

We were not duped. The video is saying SARS_CoV2 is like Influenza_A virus. The video is wrong on that. It takes Influenza_A virus TEN years to kill 400,000 people. SARS_CoV2 killed 400,000 people in 11 months.

The message in the M-RNA vaccine will keep you safe if you got it. Two Hundred Sixty million people got fully vaccinated in the USA. There were only 30,000 break through deaths. (A person got fully vaccinated, but still died from CoVid infection).

You don't want to be fooling around with the delta variant. That stuff was deadly unless you could get your hands on the Regeneron antibodies. The stuff they gave to Trump after his lungs got full of CoVid. Dr Ben Carson took it as well.

If you believe that tripe then you believe in Santa Clause, the Tooth Ferry and the Easter Bunny, lol.

[adav8s28]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

If you believe that .......

All the temporary morgues that hospitals set up in their parking lots was done to make Trump look bad so he would not get re-elected? If you believe that then you believe in Dorthy and Wizard of Oz.

@Tiny how many people do you think died from CoVid? I trust you. I don't trust Lev17. He get's his information from his personal doctor.