Election being called for Harris

[fd-guy]

Originally Posted by TravelingHere

Maybe the voting system needs to be cleaned up so that people don't have doubts?
Maybe rather than sweeping concerns under the rug it would have been nice if everything was aired out in the open and examined in the open.
I know, pretty wild, but maybe then perhaps people might not have concerns and feel like they were heard and everything was on the up and up.

Or...and I'm just spitballing here, maybe people should accept the explanations that have been provided by the folks from both parties that run the elections. I'm not sure how much more explaining there needs to be unless someone is feeble minded or just doesn't want to hear that their candidate lost.

[TravelingHere]

Originally Posted by fd-guy

Or...and I'm just spitballing here, maybe people should accept the explanations that have been provided by the folks from both parties that run the elections. I'm not sure how much more explaining there needs to be unless someone is feeble minded or just doesn't want to hear that their candidate lost.

Okay.. I'll bite.
If people had more faith in elected officials and the bureaucrats who do their own thing as part of a country club that we're never going to get into, and the courts weren't cowardly it may have been a more credible experience, but I know, it's just a daydream.
But "trust the experts" just doesn't quite cut it, you know?

[1blackman1]

Maybe if a certain group of people stopped lying about fraud the people would not believe this nonexistent fraud was rampant. In 4 years we’ve heard time and again about this massive fraud. Zero evidence of massive fraud. Why? According to the fraud conspiracy believers “everyone in govt on both sides are covering it up”. Trump was president and had a election fraud czar - no fraud found. His own administration said - no fraud. Why? Because they are part of the coverup.

Republicans kept lying for 20 years about fraud in order to shrink the electorate and hopefully pass laws at the state level to have fewer voters. The effect has been recently the reverse - increased participation by groups they sought to discourage from voting. Now it’s crazy shit like claims of millions of votes being false or fake or immigrants voting or people voting 20 times or the all time favorite, the dead voting. None of which have proved to be true except in a few instances here or there and by republicans in many cases.

If elected officials would stop lying about people like you would stop harping on it. It’s circular logic at its best. Politician R lies about it and his favorite news channel Fox keeps playing it and saying - it could be true or their talking heads repeat the lie. People start believing the lie. Then politician R and Fox say “see people are concerned about fraud and don’t trust the result”. When asked why they don’t trust the results it’s “R and Fox say there is fraud”. When asked for proof - R, Fox and their supporters all say it’s out there they just can’t put their hands on it.

[TravelingHere]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

Maybe if a certain group of people stopped lying about fraud the people would not believe this nonexistent fraud was rampant. In 4 years we’ve heard time and again about this massive fraud. Zero evidence of massive fraud. Why? According to the fraud conspiracy believers “everyone in govt on both sides are covering it up”. Trump was president and had a election fraud czar - no fraud found. His own administration said - no fraud. Why? Because they are part of the coverup.

Republicans kept lying for 20 years about fraud in order to shrink the electorate and hopefully pass laws at the state level to have fewer voters. The effect has been recently the reverse - increased participation by groups they sought to discourage from voting. Now it’s crazy shit like claims of millions of votes being false or fake or immigrants voting or people voting 20 times or the all time favorite, the dead voting. None of which have proved to be true except in a few instances here or there and by republicans in many cases.

If elected officials would stop lying about people like you would stop harping on it. It’s circular logic at its best. Politician R lies about it and his favorite news channel Fox keeps playing it and saying - it could be true or their talking heads repeat the lie. People start believing the lie. Then politician R and Fox say “see people are concerned about fraud and don’t trust the result”. When asked why they don’t trust the results it’s “R and Fox say there is fraud”. When asked for proof - R, Fox and their supporters all say it’s out there they just can’t put their hands on it.

Reasonable people ask that an ID be required for voting.

Today, you need a valid ID to buy or get the following:
1. Alcohol
2. Cigarettes
3. Opening a bank account
4. Apply for food stamps
5. Apply for welfare
6. Apply for Medicaid/Social Security
7. Apply for unemployment or a job
8. Rent/buy a house, apply for a mortgage
9. Drive/buy/rent a car
10. Get on an airplane
11. Get married
12. Purchase a gun
13. Adopt a pet
14. Rent a hotel room
15. Apply for a hunting license
16. Apply for a fishing license
17. Buy a cell phone
18. Visit a casino
19. Pick up a prescription
20. Hold a rally or protest
21. Blood donations
22. Buy an “M” rated video game
23. Purchase nail polish at CVS
24. Purchase certain cold medicines

But not to vote?
Not required in a number of states! So strange.

The people who wanted a Covid ID for all of us don't want IDs used for voting! Color me surprised.

[1blackman1]

You do agree though that fraud in elections for the past 28-32 years has been nearly nonexistent in any way that would matter in a presidential election. I think heritage found some minuscule number of fraudulent votes out of nearly a billion that have been cast since it did its deep dive. If we can at least agree on the actual facts we might get somewhere. I think they found like 10 nonresidents that voted with a few of them being errors with the ballot they were given.

You would agree that republican’s claims of fraud, particularly by the former president and his followers, are untrue, right?

I have no issue with voter ID. I give them my license every time I vote. What I do have an issue with is the attempt by some states to use the types of ID as a method of providing a preference. For instance, why is not a state school issued ID insufficient but a hunting license sufficient? They are both issued by a state agency hence should both be sufficient.

[TravelingHere]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

You do agree though that fraud in elections for the past 28-32 years has been nearly nonexistent in any way that would matter in a presidential election. I think heritage found some minuscule number of fraudulent votes out of nearly a billion that have been cast since it did its deep dive. If we can at least agree on the actual facts we might get somewhere. I think they found like 10 nonresidents that voted with a few of them being errors with the ballot they were given.

You would agree that republican’s claims of fraud, particularly by the former president and his followers, are untrue, right?

I have no issue with voter ID. I give them my license every time I vote. What I do have an issue with is the attempt by some states to use the types of ID as a method of providing a preference. For instance, why is not a state school issued ID insufficient but a hunting license sufficient? They are both issued by a state agency hence should both be sufficient.

Only thing I agree with is that it should be Real/ official state ID if it's a federal/ state vote.
Given a couple of states were decided by very small margins, I have my doubts and leave it at that.
Other countries can do their voting and counting in a day.
Most states can do it in a day, but it takes other states days or weeks. Preposterous.

[1blackman1]

Give an example of a country of significant size that gets its vote counting complete in a day? What do they do differently and why is it more effective?

What states take too long? What causes the delay?

You still didn’t answer the question as why it’s ok to have your hunting license but not your college ID?

[onlyAMPs4menow]

Because a college ID does not establish residency. An in-state hunting license presumably does, I am not sure.

Nonetheless, the fact you can't figure out basic, common sense questions like this demonstrates the left is not driven by fact, knowledge and logic......rather it is controlled simply by emotion.

Trump had 4 years to do all the bad things lefties said he would do and never did it. (Except Rowe.)

Harris had 4 years to do all the good things she says she is going to do and never did it, despite having 2 years of leftist control of DC.

Use of logic tells one it's time to go to Trump and the good days.

Use of emotion clings for the heavy handed government of leftists to control the lives of NPC.

[1blackman1]

Uh huh. I’m not sure what that drivel is AMP.

[TravelingHere]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

Give an example of a country of significant size that gets its vote counting complete in a day? What do they do differently and why is it more effective?

What states take too long? What causes the delay?

You still didn’t answer the question as why it’s ok to have your hunting license but not your college ID?

France, done in 1 day.
https://www.poynter.org/fact-checkin...united-states/

Inconsistent standards allow for elections here to drag out.

I already stated I favor a state ID for voting.
College ID .. I guess you could be out of state, while hunting ID perhaps in that state requires residency. But I'm against such silliness.

[TravelingHere]

Originally Posted by onlyAMPs4menow

Because a college ID does not establish residency. An in-state hunting license presumably does, I am not sure.

Nonetheless, the fact you can't figure out basic, common sense questions like this demonstrates the left is not driven by fact, knowledge and logic......rather it is controlled simply by emotion.

Trump had 4 years to do all the bad things lefties said he would do and never did it. (Except Rowe.)

Harris had 4 years to do all the good things she says she is going to do and never did it, despite having 2 years of leftist control of DC.

Use of logic tells one it's time to go to Trump and the good days.

Use of emotion clings for the heavy handed government of leftists to control the lives of NPC.

Well put, exactly.

[1blackman1]

Originally Posted by TravelingHere

France, done in 1 day.
https://www.poynter.org/fact-checkin...united-states/

Inconsistent standards allow for elections here to drag out.

I already stated I favor a state ID for voting.
College ID .. I guess you could be out of state, while hunting ID perhaps in that state requires residency. But I'm against such silliness.

You might want to have a look at how France does its voting. It’s very very local and it does appear to be far quicker than US voting. They do have some advantages, it takes place on Sundays when most people are not working (rather than midweek) and because it’s so local it can be in person and hand counted on paper ballots. In fact people out side of France in their territories actually poll there rather than mailing in votes.

Their entire electorate is less than the votes any major party candidate has received in an election since I’ve been able to vote. So there is that.

[TravelingHere]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

You might want to have a look at how France does its voting. It’s very very local and it does appear to be far quicker than US voting. They do have some advantages, it takes place on Sundays when most people are not working (rather than midweek) and because it’s so local it can be in person and hand counted on paper ballots. In fact people out side of France in their territories actually poll there rather than mailing in votes.

Their entire electorate is less than the votes any major party candidate has received in an election since I’ve been able to vote. So there is that.

Agreed, still sizable, about 69 million people. We can learn from them. We could make election day a holiday/ fall on a weekend, make adjustments. It can be done.

[1blackman1]

Republicans have been against making Election Day a holiday. Election Day is set in the constitution so there’s no changing that.

There is only about 45 million voters in France in a country about the size of Texas. And like I said, they have very local elections. They also don’t have a consistent political group undermining their elections and telling election lies.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

You do agree though that fraud in elections for the past 28-32 years has been nearly nonexistent in any way that would matter in a presidential election. I think heritage found some minuscule number of fraudulent votes out of nearly a billion that have been cast since it did its deep dive. If we can at least agree on the actual facts we might get somewhere. I think they found like 10 nonresidents that voted with a few of them being errors with the ballot they were given.

You would agree that republican’s claims of fraud, particularly by the former president and his followers, are untrue, right?

I have no issue with voter ID. I give them my license every time I vote. What I do have an issue with is the attempt by some states to use the types of ID as a method of providing a preference. For instance, why is not a state school issued ID insufficient but a hunting license sufficient? They are both issued by a state agency hence should both be sufficient.

I mostly agree. The number of fraudulent votes on the Heritage database isn't miniscule, but there are rarely enough to sway an election. And even in those cases it's a pissant local election nobody cares about.

Having forged fake school ID's to buy beer, I disagree on that point.

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

Republicans kept lying for 20 years about fraud in order to shrink the electorate and hopefully pass laws at the state level to have fewer voters. The effect has been recently the reverse - increased participation by groups they sought to discourage from voting.

Trump and his proxies may have lied but this hasn't been going on for 20 years. More like a few months in 2020 and 2021. Yes, they did hope to massively disenfranchise voters in a handful of states, and limit voting to a few dozen alternate electors.

But otherwise the purpose of voting legislation advocated by Republicans has usually been to make elections more secure, not to have fewer voters. Democrats have convinced their base that the Repubs are trying to prevent them from voting though, and as you say, that has increased their participation. You prohibit Dems from passing out barbecue and beer in election lines and you have a lot of pissed off Democrats.