Haggling/negotiating....

[Bliss]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

I don't haggle about rates. I think it is rude and against one of the unspoken rules of the hobby.

I think providers have a perfect right to set their own rates. This isn't Mexico and there should be no haggling over those rates.

On the other hand, having set their rates, I don't think providers should vary their rates for any reason, whether it be haggling, a good client, or whatever. Especially if she states in her ads that she doesn't negotiate. I just would like to think I'm paying the same freight as everyone else.

Fair is fair.

Now, I may not be the best looking, buffest or suave hobbiest, but I will be one of the cleanest and basically respectful.

I know as a hobbiest I may not be one of the most desirable of the lot, but my $$$ are just as much coin of the realm as the next hobbiest and I should have the same purchasing power as everyone else.

I can see your point about providers not varying rates. But look at it this way. Airlines give frequent flyer miles......why? Because they appreciate your continued business with them. When I was a bartender, my regulars got happy hour prices all the time (per the mgrs request), because we appreciated their business. Perks like this happen in countless businesses as a way of taking care of the regular customer.

My reasons for offering a regulars rate to my "frequent flyers" has nothing to do with looks. I don't have to spend time screening and I am at a point with them where anxiety is not a factor at all. That is well worth the discount for me.

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by Cpalmson

Finally (and partially a smart-ass question), why do many in the hobby refer to a provider's rates as a "donation"? Therefore, how can a donation be non-negotiable? Just a quirky thought of mine

People say a lot of silly things under the mistaken belief that it changes the substance of what occurred or was potentially going to occur from a legal standpoint.

Other favorites of mine:

• Starting reviews or posts with, "I recently dreamed that..."
• Disclaimers in sig lines like, "Of course this is all a figment of my imagination"
• Disclaimers in ads that assert that my responding the caller/respondent pledges they are not LE
• Substituting roses, chocolates, kisses for $s

[Sweet Heather]

Well, since some gents view providers as nothing more than a commodity, much like a used car or slab of meat, we hear occasionally of this happening.
I wouldn't suggest it, though. H

[Gryphon]

Originally Posted by ElisabethWhispers

If nothing else, a man who doesn't haggle the price down should at least feel better about himself in the long run. After all, it's our bodies and emotional "self" we're offering, which is a very different then the purchase of a trifle at a garage sell.

I never haggle and frequently tip for that very reason. The nature of the transaction is so intimate that the very act of negotiating would ruin the experience for me. Saving some pennies just isn't what I want to be thinking about at that moment.

What is sometimes frustrating, though, is when a lady has one rate listed in one place, another somewhere else, and perhaps an outcall fee that may or may not be listed in a given venue. For those of us who don't want to discuss rates, having them clearly and consistently posted is a boon.

[rednecksatyr]

Hmmmm! I was blacklisted under another handle because I inquired about rates from a provider that did not post her rates. When I elected not to see her she was apparently offended. I did not haggle and I did send my regrets and thanked her for her time and consideration. Ah well, as they say, it is water under the bridge now.

[charlestudor2005]

See below.

Originally Posted by ElisabethWhispers

Just curious, Charles ... but if you saw someone and she hadn't charged, say, an outcall fee because it was forgotten in an ad Since I only do outcall, and there is frequently an outcall charge, I try to get that issue straightened up ahead of time. or she hadn't augmented it to reflect that change I try very hard not to have misunderstandings ... OR, for whatever reason, you actually did get a lower rate than another had received, would you complain about THAT and feel it was unjust? There was one provider (believe me, only one) that met my price point even though she was double to triple what my top donation would be. Believe me, I argued with her long and hard about it. I wound up being convinced that she was entering the session voluntarily at my price point. I didn't complain about it because: (1) I was convinced I had tried long and hard to argue her out of it; (2) it is her right to set her rate; and (3) it is her right to set rare exceptions.

Now, I know you're going to say, "See, there he goes contradicting himself." That might be true if I hadn't fought with her so hard about the donation. And I'm sure (at least pretty sure) she didn't do this on a regular basis with other hobbyists.

The complaint I was making (I think) is where a provider regularly gives discounts to certain hobbyists. I'm not talking about grandfathered rates or P411 rates. But giving a $ or 50 off because he's short that week? Number 1, I'd never ask for it, and number 2, even if I did, I'd never get it.

It's just a philosophical question, of course. No, it's not. It happens.

Elisabeth

P.S. Rumor has it that you're just fine in the looks department. You know what they say about rumors.... After all, I do hear things around the water cooler. Or the wine cooler??? LOL

[Guest080312-1]

If a lady does the courtesy of advertising her rates "up front", I return the courtesy: I don't haggle.

If she ever tried upselling, I'd walk. And the reverse -- for her to walk from a haggler -- is no less fair.

[Guest080312-1]

Originally Posted by Cpalmson

...why do many in the hobby refer to a provider's rates as a "donation"?

Perhaps they think "donation" is -- in case of an LE bust --legally defensible in court?

There's a notorious b*tch who advertises on the San Antonio BP, using phony pics. She refers to her rates as "benefactions" ("Benefactions begin as follows:")

In the immortal words of SNL's Chris Farley (in character as "Matt Foley, motivational speaker"):

"We-e-ell, La-Dee-Frickin' Da-a-a!!!"

[ANONONE]

I am not sure why folks get their undergarments in a twist over this. . .

I have no more of a problem with gents that haggle and barter than I do with the providers that offer "SPECIALS" in their ads that are not a reduction in price.

This is a free marketplace and there will always be friction between price and value and taking it personal will just rob you of joy.

Taking an indignant, noble stance in a free market economy is just stupid. It is only sex and money--get over it.

Does anyone else see the irony in the fact that providers do not want to be treated as commodity (which I do not do--I am MR. BFE when it comes to BCD) yet insist on a fixed price that should be esteemed as gospel?

Pick up any Basic Economics textbook, and you will find this:

A commodity is a product or service for which there is demand, but which is supplied without qualitative differentiation across the market.

Let that sink in a bit, and you will get a chuckle every time someone makes a thread like this.

[am-a-pleaser]

Originally Posted by Bliss

I can see your point about providers not varying rates. But look at it this way. Airlines give frequent flyer miles......why? Because they appreciate your continued business with them. When I was a bartender, my regulars got happy hour prices all the time (per the mgrs request), because we appreciated their business. Perks like this happen in countless businesses as a way of taking care of the regular customer.

My reasons for offering a regulars rate to my "frequent flyers" has nothing to do with looks. I don't have to spend time screening and I am at a point with them where anxiety is not a factor at all. That is well worth the discount for me.

Bliss, I like the way you think. And I agree with you.

Hmmmm do some guys have to buy two seats? Some people get free drinks by using drink coupons. Those who act like children don't get to fly free. Oh yeah, those that bring lots of baggage have to pay more.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

I don't haggle about rates. I think it is rude and against one of the unspoken rules of the hobby.

I think providers have a perfect right to set their own rates. This isn't Mexico and there should be no haggling over those rates.

On the other hand, having set their rates, I don't think providers should vary their rates for any reason, whether it be haggling, a good client, or whatever. Especially if she states in her ads that she doesn't negotiate. I just would like to think I'm paying the same freight as everyone else.

Fair is fair.

Now, I may not be the best looking, buffest or suave hobbiest, but I will be one of the cleanest and basically respectful.

I know as a hobbiest I may not be one of the most desirable of the lot, but my $$$ are just as much coin of the realm as the next hobbiest and I should have the same purchasing power as everyone else.

Originally Posted by Bliss

I can see your point about providers not varying rates. But look at it this way. Airlines give frequent flyer miles......why? Because they appreciate your continued business with them. When I was a bartender, my regulars got happy hour prices all the time (per the mgrs request), because we appreciated their business. Perks like this happen in countless businesses as a way of taking care of the regular customer.

My reasons for offering a regulars rate to my "frequent flyers" has nothing to do with looks. I don't have to spend time screening and I am at a point with them where anxiety is not a factor at all. That is well worth the discount for me.

Your logic is somewhat flawed. As an airline frequent flyer, I still pay the same rate as other flyers. They just give me points/miles that can be redeemed later for one trip. But you should figure out how many times you have to fly before you've built up enough miles for a free trip. It's astounding.

Mastercuts (and other salons) used to offer a free cut for every so many cuts (either 10 or 20 if I remember). They gave you a little card that could be punched for every time you came in for a cut. Once it was filled, you got a free cut. (BTW, I always forgot the card so I was never able to redeem even one cut.)

Now, if you did something like that (visit me 10 times at the full price and get a freebie) I wouldn't have a problem.

As for your bartending experience, the owner can set the rates (just like providers set their rates). But I'm willing to bet your tips went down. The owner wanted to encourage loyalty, but by reducing the prices, he effectively reduced your tips if the customers tipped a percentage. And in my experience, bar customers tend to be loyal no matter what the price. They are drawn to a particular bar through a combination of atmosphere, friends, wait staff, and habits. They would feel very strange in a different place, and would come back pretty quick.

[Bliss]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

Your logic is somewhat flawed. As an airline frequent flyer, I still pay the same rate as other flyers. They just give me points/miles that can be redeemed later for one trip. But you should figure out how many times you have to fly before you've built up enough miles for a free trip. It's astounding.

Mastercuts (and other salons) used to offer a free cut for every so many cuts (either 10 or 20 if I remember). They gave you a little card that could be punched for every time you came in for a cut. Once it was filled, you got a free cut. (BTW, I always forgot the card so I was never able to redeem even one cut.)

Now, if you did something like that (visit me 10 times at the full price and get a freebie) I wouldn't have a problem.

As for your bartending experience, the owner can set the rates (just like providers set their rates). But I'm willing to bet your tips went down. The owner wanted to encourage loyalty, but by reducing the prices, he effectively reduced your tips if the customers tipped a percentage. And in my experience, bar customers tend to be loyal no matter what the price. They are drawn to a particular bar through a combination of atmosphere, friends, wait staff, and habits. They would feel very strange in a different place, and would come back pretty quick.

My logic isn't flawed at all. I was just making SIMILAR comparisons. My point was that it is very smart business to take care of your bread and butter customers. And you are mistaken as for the bartending tips. You give people a good deal on their food and drinks along with the awesome service, they will make up what they saved in a bigger tip.

Provider punch card? Buy 10, get one free? Fantastic!

[Tiffany Cums]

The complaint I was making (I think) is where a provider regularly gives discounts to certain hobbyists. I'm not talking about grandfathered rates or P411 rates. But giving a $ or 50 off because he's short that week? Number 1, I'd never ask for it, and number 2, even if I did, I'd never get it.
-CT2005

Ok, let me explain this....
I give a discounted rate when I think the HOBBIEST needs one....like for instance, I have a lot of specials around the holidys for up to $50 off...because a very good friend and gentleman explained to me that it is hard for him to sneak off with 'play' money when it is the holidays. I lowered my rate often during a stressful time of the year, to help....not me, but you, the hobbiest.

I offer special rates at times for my regulars...for the ones who have given me good reviews...like what was mentioned, they take care of me so I enjoy takeing care of them. I have also given special rates for newbies, and also special rates for out of towners. I enjoy seeing new people, and this is all in fun.

If I am currently not doing a special rate, and I am asked for one, I simply tell them that I am not currently running a special...either they can wait around for one, or they can get me when they need/want me. It's their choice.

I am lucky with the fact no one has tried to haggle with me. I don't mind them asking, because a lot of times I will tell them 'That's next weeks special! Just wait....I'll take care of you! Let's book that for Monday....' and the next weeks ad will be geared towards them.

I see it as a give an take...and I have been lucky so far that it is also taken as such.

So is this wrong?

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by ANONONE

Does anyone else see the irony in the fact that providers do not want to be treated as commodity (which I do not do--I am MR. BFE when it comes to BCD) yet insist on a fixed price that should be esteemed as gospel?

.

I'm not sure I get your point around commodities. Commodities -- gold, silver, wheat, oil, etc. -- get haggled and negotiated back and forth all day long. That is how market prices are set at any given time.

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

As for your bartending experience, the owner can set the rates (just like providers set their rates). But I'm willing to bet your tips went down. The owner wanted to encourage loyalty, but by reducing the prices, he effectively reduced your tips if the customers tipped a percentage. And in my experience, bar customers tend to be loyal no matter what the price. They are drawn to a particular bar through a combination of atmosphere, friends, wait staff, and habits. They would feel very strange in a different place, and would come back pretty quick.

Originally Posted by Bliss

My logic isn't flawed at all. I was just making SIMILAR comparisons. My point was that it is very smart business to take care of your bread and butter customers. And you are mistaken as for the bartending tips. You give people a good deal on their food and drinks along with the awesome service, they will make up what they saved in a bigger tip.

Charles, I have to side with Miss Bliss here....patrons "take care of" their bartender when she "hooks you up" (free, discounted drinks)

& true "Regulars" don't tip on a % of the tab. They know if they got a couple of free ones or happy hours prices and tip on the service. Even if they didn't get "hooked up" but it really was happy hour, they realize it takes as much effort to make and serve a drink during happy hour as it does at full fare. It is this consideration that allows these patrons to get "hooked up" or "comped" from time to time.

I know you don't like that, based on your comments. Everyone should pay the same. Candidly, that is just not reality. Sorry. Life's not fair....and further...even if he's not a "regular," the guy that is pleasant, charming and respectful is more likely to get "hooked up" than the guy that is the opposite of said gentleman. (I'm not implying you are anything but a gentleman, just that in "real life" people pay different prices for the same thing)

[ANONONE]

Originally Posted by atlcomedy

I'm not sure I get your point around commodities. Commodities -- gold, silver, wheat, oil, etc. -- get haggled and negotiated back and forth all day long. That is how market prices are set at any given time.

I am going back to my nap, but before I nod off, to directly answer your question, I was speaking to the whole silly notion of fungibility in the hobby with regards to value and price. We often speak of marketing and business plans in the hobby, and most providers expect to be treated as professionals. With that said, we all need to detach the emotion from the transaction. Haggling on the hobbyists part, and offering specials on the provider's part, is simply one way that the equilibrium price is reached.