It had to happen, why Hitler?

[dirty dog]

John you got to spell it out real slow for them. Many people like to use Hitler as a way to slam the right wing. They are under the impression that Hitler was a right wing facist and they invoke his name into an argument as a way of disarming the rightwing side of the argument, because they are now in the position of defending themselves against a perceived association with Hitler. The reality is that Hitler was a liberal, who believed in National Socialism.

http://www.nazism.net/about/adolf_hitler/mein_kampf/

I believe JG was trying to point out that it kind of stupid (not refering to you papa) for a left wing person to use Hitler as an example of failed right wing politics when he was closer in ideology to them then anyone in the right wing. I can see how people could be confused however because the modern day american Nazi party and their offspring align themselves more with conservatives, (much to the dismay of the conservative party).

Monger, your use of that picture is an example of ignorent poltics. I am not a tea party member, but to use that photo in an attempt to paint all members of the tea party group based on the action of a few is so typically liberal its funny. You know what I find funny, the fact that Joe Wilson was labeled a racist because he called President Obama a liar, yet he made no reference to race, but two superliberals like Harry Reid and Chris Matthews can't seem to get past the fact that he is black as it always seems to be somewhere in the back of their mind. I cant figure out if its still just shock that he got elected or if these super elietists white liberals got them a token.

[dirty dog]

Originally Posted by kcbigpapa

I thought you were referring to JFK as well since you mentioned. There was never any distinction made. It does read as if you are referring to JFK since the name is included with other names that have occupied the White House.

I believe JG was refering to speeches made by Dem Presidents which may or may not have had socialist leanings. I dont believe he was aligning Kennedy, Clinton or Obama with Hitler.

He did clearly stated Joe Kenedy who's political vews were far different that John's. Joe was removed as ambassiter because he spoke in support of hitler.

"Well, yes, john_galt, it just so happens I saw something in the article that supports Hitler, but you've concealed it so well, that most people miss it."

Not taking sides but I felt like Fast Gunns comments could be construed as saying that JG had a hidden nazi agenda, so in all honesty fast gunn does owe him an appology.

[kcbigpapa]

Originally Posted by dirty dog

Monger, your use of that picture is an example of ignorent poltics. I am not a tea party member, but to use that photo in an attempt to paint all members of the tea party group based on the action of a few is so typically liberal its funny.

DD, I actually was going to admonish LM for the picture, but then I researched it and found out that the guy IS actually the founder of the Tea Party.

Originally Posted by dirty dog

He did clearly stated Joe Kenedy who's political vews were far different that John's.

Actually, he later said he was referring to Ted Kennedy. Joe was referenced in another post.

[john_galt]

Went back and saw the picture of which you speak but there are couple of problems; Dale Robertson (not the actor) is a self-proclaimed leader of the tea parties. Self-proclaimed... If you look around online you will find other "leaders" of the tea parties so Dale can't be the one like you claim. If you go to the following link http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...a%3DN%26um%3D1 you will read that Dale was thrown out of that event for his sign. Thrown out...maybe he isn't the leader afterall. We once had a guy back home who claimed to be a Republican when he ran for Sheriff. He couldn't even spell the word and had never voted in his life. So you can't always take what some people take as gospel. As for tea parties, there are no leaders. How do you explain 1500 tea parties on the 15th of April last year? That would have been one mighty busy person. I won't make anymore posts on these subject. I think the response from the left speaks for itself and proves my point. In the future try not to read anything MORE into what I write than what I've written. Ich schreibe eine Buch fur Sie.

[Starry69]

How do you explain 1500 tea parties on the 15th of April last year?

Fox news. Surely you don't think 1500 spontaneous tea parties incidentally sprang up on the same day?

[dirty dog]

"DD, I actually was going to admonish LM for the picture, but then I researched it and found out that the guy IS actually the founder of the Tea Party."

Actually Papa a quick google search found 4 different leaders of the Tea Party movement, Mark Williams, Deborah Johns, Eric Odem, Amy Kremer. I suspect that Lulz I mean monger looked through a lot of leaders before he settled on 1 idiot with a stupid sign and ideology other than the main stream of the tea party.

[dirty dog]

"Fox news. Surely you don't think 1500 spontaneous tea parties incidentally sprang up on the same day?"

These events were losely coordinated by many who were grassroots conservatives. The 15 was chosen obviously because its tax day. Today I believe that there is an offical Tea Party with a headquarters and such coordinating a national effort, but not at that day. Fox news and many such as Glen Beck help propel the movement in the beginning.

[Omahan]

Originally Posted by john_galt

I knew this would happen, (disgust) Some idiot would think that I am defending Hitler. Read a book! Historians don't get anywhere hurling invectives and insults. They talk about their subject a even reasoned way no matter how hateful.

YOU Fast Gunn, owe me an apology.

If you want to continue political discussions it would be a good idea to stop the name calling.

[Bubba]

I agree with Omahan. This type of behaviour is exactly why we didn't allow political discussions on ASPD. We are allowing them here but we can not and will not allow any discussions to resort to name calling. It ain't going to happen!!

State your facts and opinions and respect the fact that others may have their own views. You never know, we might learn something from listening to views that differ from our own. I am certain of one thing, simply trying to shout louder then other guy doesn't work!! It's like trying to put a dress on a pig.....the pig gets pissed and you get dirty!!

Now have fun.......that's an order!!! LOL!!

[zont]

When I had the audience to entertain the kiddies (teaching situation - mainly 8th graders), I used to quiz them - Who was the #1 mass murderer of the 20th century? The usual answer was Hitler. Buzzzzzzzz!

In the win, place, and show of this Hitler is the show. Mao is win and Stalin is place. It is a little hard to get stats to "prove" it tho - the Germans kept records, the other two, uhhhh, not so much!

When it comes to taking out a percentage of the population, Pol Pot is prob the champ.

Oh yeah - how ya doing Bubba?, good to see you here!

[kcbigpapa]

I want to apologize to JG for being pretty harsh on him in this thread. No excuses.

[kcbigpapa]

Originally Posted by john_galt

Went back and saw the picture of which you speak but there are couple of problems; Dale Robertson (not the actor) is a self-proclaimed leader of the tea parties.

That does makes sense as when I read about the Tea Party on Wikipedia, there wasn't a clear cut leader. I just saw Dale on teaparty.org and they mentioned him as the founder. I guess he was probably the first to get the website. Plus he does refer to his site as the 1776 Tea Party.

[BigMikeinKC]

Hitler was neither a socialist or a capitalist. He was a fascist.

Fascism, pronounced /ˈfæʃɪzəm/, is a political ideology that seeks to combine radical and authoritarian nationalism[1][2][3][4] with a corporatist economic system,[5] and which is usually considered to be on the far right of the traditional left-right political spectrum.[6][7][8][9][10]

Fascists advocate the creation of a single-party state,[11] with the belief that the majority is unsuited to govern itself through democracy and by reaffirming the benefits of inequality.[12] Fascist governments forbid and suppress openness and opposition to the fascist state and the fascist movement.[13] Fascism opposes class conflict, blames capitalism and liberal democracies for its creation and communists for exploiting the concept.[14] Fascism fashioned itself as the "complete opposite of Marxian socialism"[12] by rejecting the economic and material conception of history, the fundamental belief of fascism being that human beings are motivated by glory and heroism rather than economic motives, in contrast to the worldview of capitalism and socialism.[12]

[lacrew_2000]

To answer the original question, as to why Hitler is used so often as a comparison for evil...I think its just marketing. In this country, we learn American History and European History primarily in school. The schools really barely touch on the Russian revolution, Lenin, and Stalin. There is almost no mention of Mao. And, to my memory, nothing about the slaughter in Cambodia.

So, Hitler is left as the world's bad guy. Ask a college student who Pol Pot was, or Idi Amin. Most won't know. Most won't be able to name all the allied or axis powers (or even most of them), but they universally know who Hitler was....yet strangely Mussolini doesn't seem to ring a bell with them.

Why? Sorry, but alot of teachers aren't very complex thinkers, and teaching Hitler is easy. The Germans were meticulous record keepers, there is LOTS of film footage of Hitler, and his extermination of Jews was undeniably evil. Sure, they ignore alot of complex issues dealing with his rise to power, the rest of Europe's anti-semitism (vichy French), etc....its just so simple to quantify the axis powers with one bad guy.

[Guest072311]

Originally Posted by Longermonger

Everybody needs to take a breath and calm down before I get blamed for something and banned.

...and the name calling is a real problem for anyone and everyone, I think. We can choose to disagree with respect and act accordingly. We need to make sure we read what is there and not add or subtract. If we are not sure if it is an opinion of confirmed fact, ask for clarification?

All opinions have the same weight, correct? Evidence must be judged based on source, and continuity with other sources?

THESES ARE TOUGH AREAS and important areas at the same time. I feel we can learn from each other if we stay open and reasonable. I know I don't know it all and I am willing to listen to reasonable conversation for both sides and the middle. And I think 'crew added some good stuff to on the "bad guys" theme......