How are we going to pay for all this shit?

[gnadfly]

Originally Posted by bambino

We’re just collateral for the Fed and Central Banking system. Have been for a century. They print cash, our taxes pay the fig.

You mean "vig"?

Originally Posted by bambino

Only 9% of the Covid package actually went to Covid related issues. Only 15% of the “Infrastructure” package goes to actual infrastructure projects. That’s why folks are angry. But sooner or later, the Piper will come knocking. It won’t be pretty.

I'm sure you remember TARP and all the "shovel ready" jobs that were rarely created. This is the same thing but worse.

Supposedly the Dims are looking at forgiving $50K in student loans. Already a high percentage are already in default. Talked to a guy who said he knew a guy (I think he was talking about himself) that said he had reached an agreement to pay $38 in perpetuity for a $50K student loan.

[bambino]

Originally Posted by Unique_Carpenter

I think we just cut every elected politicians office staff down to half of what they have to start.
Then get the federal debt limit fixed so it can never be increased again.

Oh, wait, those are only possible in an alternate universe.

I would get rid of these people first. There’s 8000 of them making at least 125k a year. Deep State nobodies.

https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-over...utive-service/

[VitaMan]

It used to be "tax and spend" or "spend and tax" liberals, vs. "small government" conservatives. The thinking is not that way anymore. The thinking is now:


debt is only a problem if it becomes too big for your balance sheet. America has not yet reached that point, with the huge trillion dollar economy. So we easily service the debt burden.


now sports teams get money for stadiums by having the local governments tax the people that come in from out of town....thereby having no tax burden added to the local people....in effect, for free......except the local government must pay if not enough revenue comes in from the out of towners


People like free stuff. And governments have figured out a way to do it.

[bill sins]

When the Chinese come storming ashore in Cali, South Carolina and Florida they will cancel the national debt. The "people of color" think the white boys treated them badly wait until those yellow guys get a holt of there ass'.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

It used to be "tax and spend" or "spend and tax" liberals, vs. "small government" conservatives. The thinking is not that way anymore. The thinking is now:


debt is only a problem if it becomes too big for your balance sheet. America has not yet reached that point, with the huge trillion dollar economy. So we easily service the debt burden.


now sports teams get money for stadiums by having the local governments tax the people that come in from out of town....thereby having no tax burden added to the local people....in effect, for free......except the local government must pay if not enough revenue comes in from the out of towners


People like free stuff. And governments have figured out a way to do it.

There are probably only two people on this board, LustyLad and CaptainMidnight, who actually understand this. And I believe their points of view are closer to yours than mine.

How can government debt as a % of GDP exceed 200% in Japan, yet it still coasts along? Meanwhile all hell breaks lose in some developing countries at much lower levels. I've read that the Japanese government debt is mostly owned by Japanese, and it's the external debt (debt owed to foreigners, including corporate and individual debt) that gets places like Venezuela into trouble. It would seem to me that we're more like Venezuela than Japan in that respect. Our continual current account or trade deficits, that result from us buying a lot more from the rest of the world than what we sell to it, means foreigners own a good bit of our debt.

Anyway, it's beyond my pay grade. All I know is with huge expenditures we're incurring in 2020 and 2021, our net national government debt (net of the federal debt owned by the Fed) would have to go over 100% of GDP by the end of this year, if it hasn't already. And while that's not unprecedented -- there are some sickly countries in Europe like Greece, Italy and Portugal that have already reached that point -- it's scary. We don't have Japanese savers happy with 0% interest rates or hard working Germans to bail us out.

[bambino]

Originally Posted by Tiny

There are probably only two people on this board, LustyLad and CaptainMidnight, who actually understand this. And I believe their points of view are closer to yours than mine.

How can government debt as a % of GDP exceed 200% in Japan, yet it still coasts along? Meanwhile all hell breaks lose in some developing countries at much lower levels. I've read that the Japanese government debt is mostly owned by Japanese, and it's the external debt (debt owed to foreigners, including corporate and individual debt) that gets places like Venezuela into trouble. It would seem to me that we're more like Venezuela than Japan in that respect. Our continual current account or trade deficits, that result from us buying a lot more from the rest of the world than what we sell to it, means foreigners own a good bit of our debt.

Anyway, it's beyond my pay grade. All I know is with huge expenditures we're incurring in 2020 and 2021, our net national government debt (net of the federal debt owned by the Fed) would have to go over 100% of GDP by the end of this year, if it hasn't already. And while that's not unprecedented -- there are some sickly countries in Europe like Greece, Italy and Portugal that have already reached that point -- it's scary. We don't have Japanese savers happy with 0% interest rates or hard working Germans to bail us out.

Don’t flatter yourself. Many people understand what’s going on. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know we’re spending ourselves into oblivion.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by bambino

Don’t flatter yourself. Many people understand what’s going on. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know we’re spending ourselves into oblivion.

Flatter myself? I said I was ignorant.

[bambino]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Flatter myself? I said I was ignorant.

You said only a few people would understand what you posted, lusty Lad and Captain Midnight, Yeah? I posted a concise point of view. We’re spending ourselves into oblivion. It’s common sense and not difficult to understand. But I do agree with you, what’s happening is above your pay grade, and everyone else on this board too.,

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by bambino

You said only a few people would understand what you posted, lusty Lad and Captain Midnight, Yeah? I posted a concise point of view. We’re spending ourselves into oblivion. It’s common sense and not difficult to understand. But I do agree with you, what’s happening is above your pay grade

No, I posted that I think LustyLad and CaptainMidnight would say we're not necessarily spending ourselves into oblivion -- I think their view is closer to VitaMan's than mine.

I think like you do that we are. But LL and CM are smarter than us, on this anyway.

[royamcr]

It is over 8 years, not like it is 1 year of spending.

US has enormous amounts of "tech debt", shit needs to get fixed or it just gets worse.

Originally Posted by Tiny

OK, The COVID relief bill just passed will cost 1.9 trillion. Biden has just proposed another 2.2 trillion for Democratic priorities and infrastructure, and reportedly will propose another 2 trillion spending bill in April for more Democratic Party priorities. That adds up to about 6 trillion in round numbers.

Alexandria Ocasio Cortez and Joe Manchin believe the $2.2 trillion just announced is too low. AOC wants it upped to $10 trillion and Manchin wants $4 trillion.

And then there's the Green New Deal, beloved by all the progressive Democratic Politicians. The American Action Forum estimates that would take $51 trillion to $93 trillion over the next ten years.

So most of this money is supposed to come from people who make more than $1 million a year, and all of it from those who make over $400,000 per year. President Biden has promised people making less than $400,000 per year will not have their tax rates increased.

Here's a link to the IRS tax statistics:

https://www.irs.gov/statistics/soi-t...d-gross-income

The latest year available is 2018. In that year, the total taxable income of people making over $1 million per year was $1.6 trillion. If you add the amount of taxable income of people making from $500,000 to a million a year, that goes up to $2.3 trillion.

However, these people are already paying a large % of their income in federal and state income taxes to help pay for existing programs. Let's say 30% of their income to be conservative -- I'm pretty sure it's more than that. That means if you take every dime they make, that they're not already paying in taxes, you end up with $1.1 trillion ($1 million cutoff) or $1.6 trillion ($500,000 cutoff) to pay for all this shit the Democratic Party politicians are proposing.

There's a snowball's chance in hell these politicians can do what they want to do by just taxing the rich.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by royamcr

It is over 8 years, not like it is 1 year of spending.

US has enormous amounts of "tech debt", shit needs to get fixed or it just gets worse.

That's true of the "infrastructure" spending, but not the COVID handouts, err, sorry, COVID relief. And you start implementing the Green New Deal and you're looking at double digit budget deficits as a % of GDP as far as the eye can see.

What's tech debt?

[bambino]

Originally Posted by Tiny

No, I posted that I think LustyLad and CaptainMidnight would say we're not necessarily spending ourselves into oblivion -- I think their view is closer to VitaMan's than mine.

I think like you do that we are. But LL and CM are smarter than us, on this anyway.

I doubt LL approves of wasteful spending on liberal wishlists. Which these bills are. I could be wrong. I’ll wait for him to chime in. It’s unsustainable. No matter what. Some funny things are happening. Putin wants to get Russia out of the central banking system. He doesn’t want his people to be slaves. Those are his words. Interesting yeah?

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by bambino

I doubt LL approves of wasteful spending on liberal wishlists. Which these bills are. I could be wrong. I’ll wait for him to chime in. It’s unsustainable. No matter what.

They both strongly disapprove of wasteful spending on liberal wish lists. I just think they believe the deficits are more sustainable than you and I do, based on what they've written here.

[bambino]

Originally Posted by Tiny

They both strongly disapprove of wasteful spending on liberal wish lists. I just think they believe the deficits are more sustainable than you and I do, based on what they've written here.

Well, we’ve just added 2 trillion more and probably another 2 trillion on top of the 2 trillion last year. Maybe they changed their minds.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by bambino

Putin wants to get Russia out of the central banking system. He doesn’t want his people to be slaves. Those are his words. Interesting yeah?

Is he talking about making it where Russia won't participate in the international payments system, where dollars are used to settle transactions? I think the U.S.A. has used that to impose sanctions on Russians and companies that do business with Russia. Or is he talking about taking away the power of the Russian central bank and putting the country on something like the gold standard?