NFL and Houston Texans Superthread: Are we ready for some football?

[gnadfly]

Originally Posted by TheDon

Yeah, it's a pocket passing league, right now....But when Everett Golson, Teddy Bridgewater, Braxton Miller, Marcus Mariota, and Johnny Manziel enter the league in a few years, to already go along with guys like Robert Griffin, Russell Wilson, Cam Newton, Aaron Rodgers, Andrew Luck, guess what, it's not going to be a pocket passing league anymore. More than half the starting QBs in the league will be mobile, athletic, and accurate passers.

Although every QB you listed is athletic, you won't see Andrew Luck and Aaron Rodgers running a Pistol Offense. The coach would be fired. Oh you'll see Rodgers and Luck do roll outs and occassionally take off, but their coach know that consisently exposing their QB to a 4.5 250lb LB going the opposite direction jeopardizes their job security. They can't have their $10MM man spending half the season on IR.

Originally Posted by TheDon

One of the guys I mentioned got injured last season. Matt Schaub and Tom Brady have also gotten injured and missed games during the season. It's football, players get injured all the time, that's not going to change

Sure it is. It won't be totally eliminated but the rules are structured for keeping the Pocket Pass QB upright and on the field all season.

Originally Posted by TheDon

Comparing this to the wildcat is silly. You only had a couple of teams that were serious about it, and it wasn't changing the game, what we are seeing now is already changing the game. It's not an accident, the defense in the NFL is going to continue to be more and more non-existent as the rule changes are going to keep benefiting the offense, the offense has total control of the game, more and more teams are going to play fast and aggressive, and you're going to need a mobile QB to do that the best.

Just look at all the WRs and QBs in the league breaking new offensive records every year, it's not a hard pattern/trend to notice, and it's going to continue.

This is simple, it because the rules basically don't allow a DB to touch a WR after 5 yards, protects the WR after going through the middle of the field from getting injured. I don't think Ronnie Lott could play today.

Originally Posted by TheDon

Why don't you go ahead and try to name some future Joe Flaccos/Drew Brees type of guys in college right now that will have a legitimate shot at starting in the NFL sometime soon? Matt Barkley, Tyler Wilson, and Landry Jones were arguably the best pocket passers in this past draft and none of them are going to have a chance to start this season. Unless you are talking about the next Peyton Manning, team's aren't going to be looking for these types of QBs anymore

A lot of pocket passing QBs are going to have a change to play after the athletic QB is placed on IR and can no longer be an athletic QB.

[TheDon]

Originally Posted by Jusanotherdude

Bringing Landry Jones and Barkley into the mix is a joke at this point...... one has nothing to do with the other...... bad QB class after one of the best ones in years...... it happens.... how many WRs, DB's went in the first round this year as opposed to last? Comparing one to the other directly is ludicrous......

Gnad is right... pocket passers will never go out of "style" if you will..... accuracy will ALWAYS trump mobility at the highest level.... getting the ball into playmakers hands in the open field is the priority.... it's far easier to replace WRs, TEs and RBs upon injuries than QBs..... constant and consistant hits on these smaller guys at the NFL level WILL lead shorter career spans, and less games per season. Neither of which are acceptable in the eyes of GMs and coaches.... you don't take your high end sports cars off roading..... same concept here..... outside of the pocket these investments are at a much higher risk. You Can't win games for your team while in the training room or under the knife. Cam gets away with it for now being a huge mammal and being young. Vick did it for his first few years by being faster than everyone on the field.... and he's bigger and faster than the guys you are referring to Don..... guess how many years he played in all 16games in the 11 he's been in the NFL? Once. How many times has Brady, Flacco, and the Manning's? I think between just those 4 off the top of my head they have 2 seasons where they did not play in all 16 (if I'm not mistaken)....

Then look at last years's class and compare it to last year's. Weeden was the only straight pocket passer to start, he didn't do well, Gabbert was the main guy the year before that. Ponder and Dalton, we still don't really know what to make of them. And next year's class, I'm not sure how many QB's you have to list before you get into a straight pocket passer.

This point you are making that pocket passers will always be in the league is not being disputed. The argument is that there are going to be mobile QBs who can run and throw just as accurate as the straight pocket passer, you are essentially getting the same type of player, with the only exception being that one can run, and the other cannot. After Brady and Manning are gone, Kaep and Rodgers are going to be the most accurate passers in the league. Teams are going to want to find guys like them, they can run and throw, they're not one dimensional. They can do both, the skill level at that position has risen exponentially.

And I don't buy that these guys are just going to get injured. What happened to Vick and Griffin happened to them because they were careless with their actions. Guys like Luck, Kaep, and Wilson had no problem staying healthy because they knew when to give themselves up and stay safe, it can and will be learned by the future QBs that come in.

And if they do get injured, there will be more depth at that position, guys like Dennis Dixon will be getting future roles as back-ups as they will get more opportunity.

And if there happens to be a guy coming in that has no mobility but has an extremely high IQ and good mechanics, I'm sure there will be a spot for him as a starter. If you are talking about the next Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, sure, no problem. But more than likely you will be getting a Phillip Rivers, Carson Palmer, Sanchez, Schaub type of guy, and I don't see teams willing to risk getting one of these guys when they can either have someone who can throw just as good as them, with the same IQ, but has mobility. Doesn't even have to be Cam or Griffin mobility. A guy with Locker's or Tannehill's mobility is just as good, and will be deemed as an upgrade.

And I know the argument is that there are not enough guys like that for every team to have one, but within 3-4 years, there will be

B.

[TheDon]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

Although every QB you listed is athletic, you won't see Andrew Luck and Aaron Rodgers running a Pistol Offense. The coach would be fired. Oh you'll see Rodgers and Luck do roll outs and occassionally take off, but their coach know that consisently exposing their QB to a 4.5 250lb LB going the opposite direction jeopardizes their job security. They can't have their $10MM man spending half the season on IR.


Sure it is. It won't be totally eliminated but the rules are structured for keeping the Pocket Pass QB upright and on the field all season.

This is simple, it because the rules basically don't allow a DB to touch a WR after 5 yards, protects the WR after going through the middle of the field from getting injured. I don't think Ronnie Lott could play today.

A lot of pocket passing QBs are going to have a change to play after the athletic QB is placed on IR and can no longer be an athletic QB.

Never said anything about them running specific packages, just that they are mobile, and like I said in the post above, they can give themselves up to avoid injury.

It doesn't always happen though, that's my point. Sure a guy is more vulnerable to injury when on the run, but there will be ways for them to protect themselves (sliding, going out of bounds).

Lott probably wouldn't be able to play, that's why a team would rather have a mobile QB, the guys in the secondary are not going to be hard hitters, but more of coverage guys, guys that simply hit hard are going to be of no use soon, the league won't tolerate it any longer.

Yes, but eventually the back-ups will be mobile as well.

[jstone420]

Say don't bring up Matt schaub at all

[Guest082824]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

This is simple, it because the rules basically don't allow a DB to touch a WR after 5 yards, protects the WR after going through the middle of the field from getting injured. I don't think Ronnie Lott could play today.

Ahhh, the good ole "Mel Blount Rule"

I miss the good old days before the NFL became a pass happy, 7 on 7, might as well put flags on the Quarterbacks league


#DefenseWinsChampionships (All you twitter folks, did I do that right LOL)

[Wakeup]

A 25 character hashtag means you're only left with 115 characters to message with...not a good choice...

[Daddio]

Who needs Johnny Football!!! Our awesome coach said last year he didn't want Peyton Manning, "we have our guy". We have "Dopey Leadfoot".

I also love Kubes saying he signed a shorter contract cause he would be worth more money when he signs his next contract. I sure hope it's with another franchise, maybe a Denny's franchise!!

The age old question of size matters is my only concern with Johnny Football, he looks a bit fragile to me although he is still young and maturing. But Russell Wilson is prolly smaller, height wise at least. Russell the Muscle is pretty thick unlike Johnny Football. Shit, everybody on here knows I would take him over our current guy any day of the mfing week.

Good to see this thread blow up again!!! Only 127 days until the season opener!!

[gnadfly]

Originally Posted by TheDon

...The argument is that there are going to be mobile QBs who can run and throw just as accurate as the straight pocket passer, you are essentially getting the same type of player, with the only exception being that one can run, and the other cannot. After Brady and Manning are gone, Kaep and Rodgers are going to be the....

You are going to have to define "mobile QB" or "athletic QB".

Also you keep using Luck, Tannehill, and a couple of other QBs to prove your "mobile QB" argument. Although those guys have very good 40 times they aren't running much. Not like Vick and RG3.

[TheDon]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

You are going to have to define "mobile QB" or "athletic QB".

Also you keep using Luck, Tannehill, and a couple of other QBs to prove your "mobile QB" argument. Although those guys have very good 40 times they aren't running much. Not like Vick and RG3.

Both are the same, an athletic QB is capable of being a mobile QB.

Luck rushed for over 200 yards last year and hand more rushing TD's than Russell Wilson, he picks his spots probably better than anyone in the league.

Lesser guys like Tannehill, Freeman, and Locker are capable of doing the same thing, I'm expecting their rushing stats to go up as well next season. They don't need to rush like VIck and Griffin. I've already stated that those guys ran recklessly. They will have to run more like Kaep and Wilson.

But this whole argument is too pointless to get into, I'm obviously not going to have any definitive numbers/stats to show until this change actually goes down, and when it does, it's most likely not going to surprise too many people, as it will happen within a few years (but slowly). There are only so many hypothetical's I can get into. It's May, I don't really care to defend this anymore at this point. If anyone wants to think this vision of the future is wrong/gay/funny/untrue, that's fine by me, if you think it will be a median with what we're seeing today, mixed with what I said, that's fine, too. If you don't want to believe in the future Mariota's and Manziel's, you have every right to do so.

[gnadfly]

So you can't define what you mean but we'll know when it takes over the league. Meh.

[TheDon]

It's pretty self-explanatory, really. Just continue mentioning Micheal Vick and Robert Griffin's injury and you won't really have to think about it.

[boardman]

NBC Sports' Mike Florio has more behind-the-scenes rumblings from the greatest NFL news at the moment: a 40-yard race between generations.

McCoy had been riding Vick for weeks, calling him “old man” and challenging Vick to a footrace. Vick had been laughing it off, until today.
Today, Vick had enough. So he asked coach Chip Kelly if he could accept McCoy’s invitation. Kelly agreed.
So they lined up and took off, and Vick didn’t just beat McCoy. Vick smoked McCoy by roughly five yards over a 40-yard distance, and their teammates went nuts.

[jstone420]

So what vick is still faster than a lot of people in the league it doesn't surprise me at all he smoke mccoy in a 40yard dash he may be older but he still can run

[TheDon]

He turns 33 this summer and beat one of the fastest RBs in the league in a race, I'd say it's pretty significant.

[boardman]

That's how a QB makes the team his. I bet he never gets challenged again.